Burbank....we have a problem!

[GrumpyFan]

I want to know what the exact increase in attendance was at universal, percentages mean nothing without hard figures. Last year all of universal attracted 10.1 million (IOA 4.6, US 5.5), just slightly more than DHS at 9.7. That was following a year when US was down 10% and IOA was down 11.3% while wdw increased about 1%.

What the numbers mean is what disney said when they announced this, that with less discounts, the numbers dipped slightly. The numbers are going to be at the same level as 2008; they went up about 1% in 2009 and will down about 1% in 2010. Universal's numbers show that they regained what they lost in 09, in 2010 is still up in the air because we need hard numbers. Did they increase only IOA's numbers in the quarter 35% over the previous quarter (which makes sense because summer attendance increases), is it a 35% increase from the same quarter last year for IOA?

To add to this, a 1% quarter drop in attendance for WDW is only about 119,000 visitors, based on last year's estimates of 47.51 million total. Break that down, and you have about 1,300 fewer people on average at Disney in a given day for last quarter. That's not a very large amount considering the daily average across all of WDW for last year was 130,000.

 

[flavious27]

To add to this, a 1% quarter drop in attendance for WDW is only about 119,000 visitors, based on last year's estimates of 47.51 million total. Break that down, and you have about 1,300 fewer people on average at Disney in a given day for last quarter. That's not a very large amount considering the daily average across all of WDW for last year was 130,000.

exactly. The numbers are stable, and that can be attributed to a weak economy and disney not extending some of the deals they had before.

Like I said, I want to see the hard data from universal on what their increase is.

 

[marni1971]

I think WDW actually is on the verge of a renaissance. It may be little by little (and to some TOO little) but stuff is getting done. You have the additions to World showcase. A fresh Main street. The spectacular Pooh queue. Hyperion Wharf on the way. The Art of Animation resort. Even how Mousegears got freshened up is a sign of things to come not to mention the FL expansion.

Wortld Showcase additions? C'mon... 2 new places to spend more money?? How about the Spirit of Norway or Impressions de France re-edits, or the full Maelstrom refurb, or the Japan dark ride, or actually going with Japand AND Germany, or plussing ROE and not skimping on the pyro?

Main Street (mall) needed doing. It was falling apart. As were other places in the Kingdom.

The Pooh queue... that needed doing right in the first place? And a ride to match?

Hyperion Wharf... an attempt to patch up one of the biggest mistakes in the resorts history?

Mousegear? An easier way to increase profits.

Fantasyland? A desperate, way too late attempt to address the capacity issues of the park.

Lets not get started about the poor JC, the PotC half-furb, the mess of parts of BTM, the total Space Mountain debacle and Tomorrowland as a whole. Let alone the other parks. What is being done was needed 10 years ago. The park needs a whole lot more.
IMHO as always.

 

[SeaCastle]

Wortld Showcase additions? C'mon... 2 new places to spend more money?? How about the Spirit of Norway or Impressions de France re-edits, or the full Maelstrom refurb, or the Japan dark ride, or actually going with Japand AND Germany, or plussing ROE and not skimping on the pyro?

Quick question...is any of this close at all to happening?

Lets not get started about the poor JC, the PotC half-furb, the mess of parts of BTM, the total Space Mountain debacle and Tomorrowland as a whole. Let alone the other parks. What is being done was needed 10 years ago. The park needs a whole lot more.
IMHO as always.

Also, who is to blame for this? Does the pitiful state of the attractions and failfurbs rest on Phil Holmes's shoulders? These are the flagship, E-ticket attractions of the Magic Kingdom and it's disgusting that they are left in such a state.

One of the only rides in the MK getting the attention it deserves is Splash Mountain, which still receives its annual refurbs, even though it's not in the best state, either.

 

[TheBeatles]

I do think there is a shift coming, but not sure which way it will go.

While it's beating a dead horse, yeah.. people are excited about Harry Potter. Most people I talk to about Orlando/Disney almost always ask about Harry Potter. Their enthusiasm for it is incredible and whenever I mention the Fantasyland expansion, people have nothing to say.

I'm afraid WDW will become too reactionary and reliant on what it THINKS works for it. I'm rooting for things to get better and am trying to help.

 

[DarthGrady]

The fact that DL is getting a HUGE new parade in 2011, the year WDW turns 40, and WDW is getting ZERO speaks volumes. I love disney. But like everyone here says, I speak with my money. I am going to DL until I see WDW trying to do better.

I've never been to IoA, but this spring I'm taking a long weekend in Orlando - IoA, Busch Gardens, Sea World and Discovery Cove. No WDW. Nothing new to see to excite me.

And you'll be blown away by Harry Potter land. I was, and I don't even like Harry Potter! :lookaroun

The theming quality is light years beyond what Universal has done in the past IMO. The immersion was amazing, friends of mine who are HP fans marveled over all the little details worked in. I kept thinking "man, this feels like something Disney would have done". But they didn't. And haven't for some time now.

Back on topic:

Disney seems content to sit back and let their good name bring in the business. It will work for awhile, but not forever, just ask GM. I really hope they start investing in WDW, or else folks will find other places to spend their money.

The company, not the parks, deserves the bashing. WDW is a great place, the fixes are numerous but realistic. A few moments scanning these boards will let them know where the rough spots are. Just a few issues I have:

MK:

Tomorrow Land is quickly becoming Yesterday Land again, time for new theming. CoP needs a new ending as well.

Do something, anything, to make the Tiki Room worth visiting again.

Fix Pirates, broken AAs are not very Disney. Especially when the ride still has movies being made about it.

EPCOT:

Do something, anything, to make Imagination worth visiting again.


Do something, anything, to make UoE worth visiting again.

Do something with Wonders of Life. Its a huge purposeless building in the middle of a major amusement park. Why does no one seem concerned about this?

A new briefing video for Test Track featuring actors and cars from the last DECADE or so would be great. The 1993 Grand Am isn't the pinnacle of technology it once was.

Do something with Odyssey. Its a huge purposeless restaurant in the middle of a major amusement park. Why does no one seem concerned about this?

The tomb of neon and sales pitches they call Innoventions is terrible. Re create it into a proper successor to Communicore. A bright and interesting look into the future.

AK:

Why is the Yetti always breaking? Get the kinks worked out already!

DHS:

Its time for the stupid hat to so the way of the wand. There was a theme that once tied the entry way of the park together. I've been to Hollywood. I have seen Grauman's Chinese Theater. There is no garish hat in front of it.

Star Tours 2.0 better be good.

 

[flavious27]

I do think there is a shift coming, but not sure which way it will go.

While it's beating a dead horse, yeah.. people are excited about Harry Potter. Most people I talk to about Orlando/Disney almost always ask about Harry Potter. Their enthusiasm for it is incredible and whenever I mention the Fantasyland expansion, people have nothing to say.

I'm afraid WDW will become too reactionary and reliant on what it THINKS works for it. I'm rooting for things to get better and am trying to help.

I hate to be a devil's advocate but the FF is needed to maintain the deep library of titles that disney has. MK's bread and butter for the most part is all about franchises that were proven money makers, and this especially true in fantasyland. The Beast's Castle sounds cool and hopefully is designed in that awesome disney way, well hopefully all of FF is. The rest sounds like a good use for space that is mostly vacant and or underutilized. Also, wdw will save mickey and minnie's houses and relocate them to somewhere in the park. I think that putting them in at art of animation would be the most appropriate, I don't see them having a place anywhere else at either MK or DHS.

 

[flavious27]

And you'll be blown away by Harry Potter land. I was, and I don't even like Harry Potter! :lookaroun

The theming quality is light years beyond what Universal has done in the past IMO. The immersion was amazing, friends of mine who are HP fans marveled over all the little details worked in. I kept thinking "man, this feels like something Disney would have done". But they didn't. And haven't for some time now.

Back on topic:

Disney seems content to sit back and let their good name bring in the business. It will work for awhile, but not forever, just ask GM. I really hope they start investing in WDW, or else folks will find other places to spend their money.

The company, not the parks, deserves the bashing. WDW is a great place, the fixes are numerous but realistic. A few moments scanning these boards will let them know where the rough spots are. Just a few issues I have:

MK:

Tomorrow Land is quickly becoming Yesterday Land again, time for new theming. CoP needs a new ending as well.

Do something, anything, to make the Tiki Room worth visiting again.

Fix Pirates, broken AAs are not very Disney. Especially when the ride still has movies being made about it.

EPCOT:

Do something, anything, to make Imagination worth visiting again.


Do something, anything, to make UoE worth visiting again.

Do something with Wonders of Life. Its a huge purposeless building in the middle of a major amusement park. Why does no one seem concerned about this?

A new briefing video for Test Track featuring actors and cars from the last DECADE or so would be great. The 1993 Grand Am isn't the pinnacle of technology it once was.

Do something with Odyssey. Its a huge purposeless restaurant in the middle of a major amusement park. Why does no one seem concerned about this?

The tomb of neon and sales pitches they call Innoventions is terrible. Re create it into a proper successor to Communicore. A bright and interesting look into the future.

AK:

Why is the Yetti always breaking? Get the kinks worked out already!

DHS:

Its time for the stupid hat to so the way of the wand. There was a theme that once tied the entry way of the park together. I've been to Hollywood. I have seen Grauman's Chinese Theater. There is no garish hat in front of it.

Star Tours 2.0 better be good.

I am amazed at the the details that they were able to do with WWHP by universal, it is lightyears past what they have done in the past. It would have made more sense to announce and start building in the early part of the decade, not '07. Also, 20 acres is small compared to what they could have done. More space would have let hogwarts express be more than a prop. More space would let the castle be larger and not just a queue area. And more space would have let diagon alley and Hogsmeade be their own areas without compromising the theme and continuity.

TML was only showing the wave of the future when it was first built at DL in the 50's. Now it is a mash-up of a fantasy space theme and the future that was in SSE. Either theme it to be like tron (the new one) or work on something radical. Tiki and Pirates need to be restored to their former, unaltered glory or improved that does not include movie tie-ins.

Innoventions needs to really be a showcase of the future of technology in our lives and what is cutting edge now. It is shocking that steve jobs has not gotten an apple section added yet. Imagination is just the wildcard pavilion of many dated pavilions. Really, they should just put a bunch of motion simulator rides in, it can't be worse than what is left after the MJ tribute runs its course.

WoL will just be used for corporate and special events. The only attraction they could install would be those body parts you can walk through. no pharmaceutical company will sponsor an attraction because none of the drugs they are developing would be interesting to hear about on a tour. Odyssey is only used for special and corporate events and there is that first aid station attached to it. I doubt they will reopen it as a table service restaurant, there are plenty of them already in epcot. tt needed a major overhaul 3 years ago. I think that any changes matter if gm will still be a sponsor.

the yetti will only get fixed when they refurb the ride and find a cheap fix; don't hold your breath.

if the hat was not there, where would we go to buy pins? the wand was taken down, count that as the only victory for temp promotional items being removed way after the promotion ended.

 

[Thurp]

I am amazed at the the details that they were able to do with WWHP by universal, it is lightyears past what they have done in the past. It would have made more sense to announce and start building in the early part of the decade, not '07. Also, 20 acres is small compared to what they could have done. More space would have let hogwarts express be more than a prop. More space would let the castle be larger and not just a queue area. And more space would have let diagon alley and Hogsmeade be their own areas without compromising the theme and continuity.

It is pretty obvious by now that they are going to expand the WWHP into the rest of the Lost Continent area. Just give them some time to plan. I don't want them to rush into an expansion, I want it to be of at least the same quality as it is now. Except that I hope they make the stores bigger this time around.

 

[Skipper03]

Technically' Disneyland is the flagship.

WHAT?! How can you say that?! DL is the legacy park and provides a solid foundation to base all parks on, but in no way can it be considered the flagship that WDW provides...

 

[flavious27]

It is pretty obvious by now that they are going to expand the WWHP into the rest of the Lost Continent area. Just give them some time to plan. I don't want them to rush into an expansion, I want it to be of at least the same quality as it is now. Except that I hope they make the stores bigger this time around.

will they? I don't see them building anymore until they have the original construction costs fully paid off.

 

[flavious27]

WHAT?! How can you say that?! DL is the legacy park and provides a solid foundation to base all parks on, but in no way can it be considered the flagship that WDW provides...

ditto. when people think of a disney theme park, the #1 is MK and WDW.

 

[DisneyNut2007]

Tiki and Pirates need to be restored to their former, unaltered glory or improved that does not include movie tie-ins.

No, they do not!

 

[Mickey_777]

Don't underestimate the power of the force. Darth Vader

Sorry, couldn't resist! Seriously though. While Star Wars may be over 30 years old, it has a huge fan base, and it's still growing. Don't believe me? Just look at Star Wars weekends.

Now, FLE, yeah, too soon to tell. But, the additions are indicative of Disney at least trying to keep moving forward, even if they are going back to movies that came out 20 years ago to do so. They're doing so, I believe, because these movies and characters have held up to the test of time and are now considered classics, meaning they obviously appeal to somebody.

Star Wars fans are hardcore compared to HP fans. Anybody remember how crazy it got when Star Tours opened the first time? Expect something similar with 2.0 ...people will be asking "Potter who?" for at least a while after that

 

[GLaDOS]

will they? I don't see them building anymore until they have the original construction costs fully paid off.

If the rumors are true...they already have.:wave:

 

[cheezbat]

will they? I don't see them building anymore until they have the original construction costs fully paid off.

Oh they already have plans for expansion, and I'm pretty sure they already have ideas for what they plan to do...right now they're just waiting. They have made so much money this year just in that section of the park...spending another $200 million or so to keep it going would be completely worth it to Universal, and they know in doing so people WILL continue to spend!

 

[cheezbat]

WHAT?! How can you say that?! DL is the legacy park and provides a solid foundation to base all parks on, but in no way can it be considered the flagship that WDW provides...

Disneyland is the ORIGINAL park, and was originally considered the flagship park, but the Walt Disney World resort is identified as the flagship resort by the company. It's their biggest moneymaker. That's what matters most to them, so of course they are going to promote the heck out of WDW over the other resorts.

 

[Enchantâmes]

Being a fan of all Disney Resorts except Hong Kong, I find the bashing to be a bit childish. The OP however seems to be dramatizing this a bit.

 

[Alektronic]

WWOHP has also won some major industry awards. For the first time in its 17 year history, no attraction/land has won 4 awards in the same year. Now it has happened for the first time. Disney won one award for the World of Color. The award committee has somenames you might recognize Marty Sklar, Tony Baxter, Bob Gurr, and many others. For the full list and article go to

http://www.teaconnect.org/

Themed Entertainment Association (TEA) ,
Announces 17th Annual Thea Award Recipients
Annual awards for the themed entertainment industry seek, gauge and celebrate excellence in storytelling that supports the creation of compelling places and guest experiences

Orlando, Tuesday, Nov. 16, 2010 -- “The annual Thea Awards, presented by the Themed Entertainment Association (TEA), recognize and honor excellence in the creation of extraordinary visitor experiences, attractions, exhibits and places,” says incoming TEA president Rick Rothschild of FAR Out! Creative Direction. “Storytelling and teamwork are the heart of the Experience Design Industry and its projects. TEA’s Thea Awards celebrate storytelling across the globe - educational and entertaining stories of heritage, history, fiction, fantasy, magic and even hard science – delivered with artistry and the appropriate use of technology at museums, theme parks, world expos, special events and other settings. The Thea Awards also honor teamwork at its very best – the creative handshake between the visionary project owner and the multidisciplinary collective of designers, artisans and technicians who realize the vision. Also, this year we commemorate the late Harrison “Buzz” Price, who at the very first Thea Awards in 1994 was recognized with the Lifetime Achievement Award. In his honor, we’ve renamed it the ‘Buzz Price Award, recognizing a Lifetime of Distinguished Achievements.’ ​

Thea Awards for Outstanding Achievement
The Wizarding World of Harry Potter (New Theme Park Land)
The Wizarding World of Harry Potter (Thematic Integration of Retail, Food & Beverage Experiences)
“Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey” (Feature Attraction)
“Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey” (Technical Achievement)
Universal Resort Orlando, USA
The challenge was to deliver a real world version of a magical place imagined in the vivid pages of J K Rowling’s Harry Potter stories. The phenomenally successful book series evoked images that would difficult to create in the world of film, let alone theme parks. With film, the magical world was extended to infinity through digital effects and by restricting the views of the camera. Designers from the Harry Potter film world would later say that it wasn’t until Orlando that they first saw Hogwarts Castle and its magical world all together in one place. In creating the New Theme Park Land for The Wizarding World of Harry Potter, everyone from J K Rowling on down was intent to deliver a world that could hold up to intense scrutiny of rabid Potter fans. From the minute detail of windows displaying chocolate frogs - pulled from Rowling’s writings, to larger spaces detailing the likes of the Hog’s Head Pub, Ollivanders Wand Shop, or the Owl Post. At the other extreme is the jaw dropping grand overview of Hogsmeade Village and the imposing edifice of Hogwarts Castle draped in a mantle of winter white. Somehow, it has all been magically transported to steamy Central Florida. These environments on their own have achieved a level of believability that moves fans emotionally. It is not so much replicative architecture as it is the storytelling of magical places, times and feelings, made real by “inhabitants” sharing their magical trappings, habits and foods. Suspension of disbelief in the film version requires massive doses of celluloid trickery to complete the illusion. Come to Orlando and inhabit for a time, a real magical world, just an exit removed from Interstate 4.

The Feature Attraction of the Wizarding World is called “Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey.” The scope of this adventure is massive. This state of the art attraction resides beneath the most imposing structure in the Wizarding World, Hogwarts Castle. The “Journey” begins with a queue that winds guests through the most memorable story settings in the Castle. Exhibiting extraordinary detail, this preshow includes a look into Dumbledore’s Office, and the Defense Against The Dark Arts classroom, where convincing images of key film characters set up the ride premise. In the Portrait Gallery, paintings come to life with an unmatched level of reality; while an animatronic Sorting Hat gives guests their final instructions for the journey. The level of showmanship to this point has surpassed what would typically be found in a major attraction, but it merely creates anticipation for what lies ahead---a ride like no other ride ever experienced.

The “enchanted bench” ride vehicle behaves in a way that defies every show/ride system in operation to this point in time. Its movement through Harry’s daring world of adventure can only be described as magical. No track, no hint of where you are going, just complete immersion in the story scenes, and so the “Journey” unfolds.
With the aid of Hermione’s magic, the bench lifts up and behaves as though it had come to life, hurling guests from one adventure scene to the next, first out front, then on your back and over to your side and then down below. After joining Harry for a short round of Quidditch with Draco Malfoy, we quickly get sidetracked into a darker world of Hungarian Horntail Dragons, Acromantula Giant Spiders, the Whomping Willow Tree and of course the dreaded Dementors. Harry is able to rescue the guests by summoning his “Patronus” to drive the Dementors away allowing us to fly back to the safety of Hogwarts to celebrate winning the Quidditch Match. It will take several rides to drink in all that the brain has to process in what is a totally new way of experiencing a story. The Technical Achievement of this ride system introduces a robotic arm (with a seating bench where the hand should be) into a dimensional environment where sets, film and animated effects are traveled in around and through, in a seamless series of events. A major technical achievement is the computer controlled interface that allows these free ranging/massive machines to perform in harmony with loading belts, walking guests, and an ADA spur track that can cycle additional vehicles into the orderly running system. Once all these operational issues are engaged, the show systems sync with the 40 + moving vehicles, co-coordinating animation and filmed sequences to each “bench” full of guests—each dispatched at an astounding seven seconds. The unique aspects of the robotic arm allow it to place guests in the center of a scene; for example, a giant astrolabe where you are surrounded by massive metal rings… with no apparent break for ride track visible above or below. Three times during the “flying” journey the vehicle syncs with revolving dome screens that allow for extended time in thrill/story sequences with the lead characters. The transfer from practical sets to filmed simulator environment is virtually seamless. This system and its software allow “Forbidden Journey” to safely deliver a new kind of experience in a magical way, raising the bar on the art and science of themed entertainment.

Usually, a major creative accomplishment ends here. The operating group steps in to take care of the needs and desires for food, merchandise, etc., and the seamless themed environment so carefully crafted is jarred by real world drink and merchandise brands, churro and beer carts, etc. But the Wizarding World is not usual. An amazing Thematic Integration of Retail, Food & Beverage Experiences has been created at a level where guests willingly wait an hour to go into a Wand Shop, when the same product is readily available from carts. The interaction between “guests and wizard” in that shop is not to be missed, and under different circumstances could stand alone as a show. What transpires show wise in this encounter turns into a merchandise feeding frenzy as the guests move on deeper into the retail area. Brilliant idea! Magic is plentiful everywhere in the stores. There are carnivorous books, jousting statues of knights, skeletons with birds attacking their marble-like eyeballs, US Postage Stamps with iconic scenes that can be “posted” via owl, and authentic school robes and gowns that add 10 degrees to the already roasting Orlando summer.

There are Chocolate Frogs and nasty tasting “Every Flavored” jellybeans, but the signature concoctions are the scratch blended beverages, Pumpkin Juice and Butter Beer. (It is rumored that Rowling had buy-off on the taste!) If the beer is purchased from the Hog’s Head Pub, there is a show to accompany the dispensing of the drink featuring, what else, the Hog’s head. This all could be an eye opener for operators that are buried by the usual trinkets and fast food on exhibit at IAAPA. It is amazing to enter a park environment and not find cola, churros or branded water.

 

[flavious27]

If the rumors are true...they already have.:wave:

just rumors, until there we hear hard data. $200 million is alot to have to gain back for universal. Also we don't know how much they have to pay WB and JK to have WWHP at IOA. There are the added staff and maintenance costs along with an increase in taxes for any extra income. I give it 3 - 5 years if they are able to increase attendance.

Oh they already have plans for expansion, and I'm pretty sure they already have ideas for what they plan to do...right now they're just waiting. They have made so much money this year just in that section of the park...spending another $200 million or so to keep it going would be completely worth it to Universal, and they know in doing so people WILL continue to spend!

It matters if they can maintain their growth. universal's attendance has looked like a roller coaster in years past. I just don't understand why they would go for the cheap way for an attraction that will need to stand on its own as with the rest of the park. Also any expansion is going to overtake existing rides and lands, which will either mean just retheming rides or demolishing them to build a new one.