Budget to Remove Wand Approved for this Fall

SDav10495

Member
You can call SSE an icon, and it is a park icon, but basicly its a structure that holds an amusement ride within a theme park. It is certainly an amazing feat of structural engineering, but I don't believe it's achieved the status or magnitude of say the Great Wall or the Effiel Tower yet.

You bring up something I've always found interesting...and frustrating. What WED created in 1982 with EPCOT Center, no matter what you think about its "message" or its "spirit" or its entertainment value, was (I believe) a beautiful, historic, and legitimate architectural statement. It was a prime example of modernist architecture and planning that actually stood for something. It was all designed with that idea in mind--they weren't building a mere theme park, but a (I'll say the word again) legitimate showcase of modernism and futurism. Every aspect of the park's layout and construction had an idea behind it, the same as any other legitimate piece of architecture today...not to mention some of EPCOT's buildings were technologically ingenious in and of themselves (see Spaceship Earth or Universe of Energy) and were not merely pretty warehouses containing "amusement rides". The fact that all of this was created by one entity--WED Enterprises--meant that the entire park was architecturally unified in a way you won't often see out in the "real world", and this, I believe, made the whole park a one-of-a-kind architectural gem. It was, in case I didn't drive my point home, legitimate. Architecturally, it wasn't "just a theme park".

Fast forward to 25 years later, when such an achievement should be recognized by now in the architectural community. EPCOT Center's architecture and design deserve comprehensive books written about them--about their beauty, about their boldness, about how the entire park is unique in the world. There should be architecture buffs visiting the park just to appreciate the pavilions and layout.

But that isn't the case--and a lot of that is because of the visual blights that have been fouling up and holding back the park for the past decade. Let's even forget about the entertainment within the park and whether or not it flies in the face of EPCOT Center's "message"--let's just stick to visuals. In Disney's relentless effort to brand EPCOT (sorry, Epcot), they've tarted up and visually dumbed down what used to be more than "just a theme park", at least architecturally. Irrelevant marquees and whirly-gigs attack the senses in the old Communicore Plaza. Ridiculous signs clutter up the front of Imagination. A hideous and--perhaps worse--supremely boring canopy hides the sleek World of Motion (does GM realize that the old building would only make Test Track look cooler?). The wand rising over Spaceship Earth is only the most visible and offensive of these blights, and it confirmed to the architectural community that Epcot is "just a Disney park" whose truly significant additions to the world of architecture don't deserve appreciation.

If Spaceship Earth doesn't seem to have "achieved the status or magnitude" of other landmarks, it's because Disney hasn't let it. In trying to update the buildings of Epcot, Disney actually set them back years and years. (The only recent example I can see to the contrary is the beautiful facade of Mission: Space--it just doesn't need anything else, much like its 1982 counterparts the way they first appeared.) The fact that Spaceship Earth is in a place built for entertainment is irrelevant...it, and the park it represents, is a marvel, a legitimate marvel. If it's not a architectural icon, I don't know what qualifies. Let's not forget, the Eiffel Tower--an undisputed icon--was built to amaze the visitors at a world's fair. Hmm, sound familiar? :animwink:

My main point is just that you shouldn't add hyper-marketed "fun and magic" to something just because it's in a place known as "Disney World". Since 1955 the architecture of the Disney parks has been ridiculed for being false and irrelevant. With EPCOT Center, Disney had something on their hands that could have refuted that argument--a park that was full to the brim of Disney creativity and imagination for the new century, with no castle in sight. But sometime in the last decade Disney began submitting to that same "just a theme park" school of thought, and in the process they shot themselves in the foot...architecturally speaking. Here was a company that had tremendous potential to spearhead some real imaginative architectural projects, but instead decided to label themselves the way everyone else labeled them and reverted to infantile Mickey hands and shiny things. It's not out of architectural snobbery but out of deep respect for Disney's potential when I say it's truly, truly beneath them.

Gah, I could go on and on about that...one of these days I'll try to develop and organize that idea a little better, perhaps in an essay. But you get my drift, I hope. Here's hoping that with the newly "naked" Spaceship Earth, Disney will have a chance to prove their aesthetic clout once more and become a leader in creative architecture.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
It's only a big deal to Disney fanatics. Do you think that the average Joe walks into the park and says,"Ew, that wand looks awful!"? No. Period. The average guest is awed by the splendor of Epcot and can't wait to start their experience.

Trust me, 99.9999999% of the guests could care less if there is a wand or not.

Sherry

Actually, the wand is the most common complaint regarding SSE. Whether these are normal tourists or Disney freaks is unknown, but that almost doesn't matter. (Thank you, Epcot GR...)
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
You bring up something I've always found interesting...and frustrating. What WED created in 1982 with EPCOT Center, no matter what you think about its "message" or its "spirit" or its entertainment value, was (I believe) a beautiful, historic, and legitimate architectural statement. It was a prime example of modernist architecture and planning that actually stood for something. It was all designed with that idea in mind--they weren't building a mere theme park, but a (I'll say the word again) legitimate showcase of modernism and futurism. Every aspect of the park's layout and construction had an idea behind it, the same as any other legitimate piece of architecture today...not to mention some of EPCOT's buildings were technologically ingenious in and of themselves (see Spaceship Earth or Universe of Energy) and were not merely pretty warehouses containing "amusement rides". The fact that all of this was created by one entity--WED Enterprises--meant that the entire park was architecturally unified in a way you won't often see out in the "real world", and this, I believe, made the whole park a one-of-a-kind architectural gem. It was, in case I didn't drive my point home, legitimate. Architecturally, it wasn't "just a theme park".

Fast forward to 25 years later, when such an achievement should be recognized by now in the architectural community. EPCOT Center's architecture and design deserve comprehensive books written about them--about their beauty, about their boldness, about how the entire park is unique in the world. There should be architecture buffs visiting the park just to appreciate the pavilions and layout.

But that isn't the case--and a lot of that is because of the visual blights that have been fouling up and holding back the park for the past decade. Let's even forget about the entertainment within the park and whether or not it flies in the face of EPCOT Center's "message"--let's just stick to visuals. In Disney's relentless effort to brand EPCOT (sorry, Epcot), they've tarted up and visually dumbed down what used to be more than "just a theme park", at least architecturally. Irrelevant marquees and whirly-gigs attack the senses in the old Communicore Plaza. Ridiculous signs clutter up the front of Imagination. A hideous and--perhaps worse--supremely boring canopy hides the sleek World of Motion (does GM realize that the old building would only make Test Track look cooler?). The wand rising over Spaceship Earth is only the most visible and offensive of these blights, and it confirmed to the architectural community that Epcot is "just a Disney park" whose truly significant additions to the world of architecture don't deserve appreciation.

If Spaceship Earth doesn't seem to have "achieved the status or magnitude" of other landmarks, it's because Disney hasn't let it. In trying to update the buildings of Epcot, Disney actually set them back years and years. (The only recent example I can see to the contrary is the beautiful facade of Mission: Space--it just doesn't need anything else, much like its 1982 counterparts the way they first appeared.) The fact that Spaceship Earth in a place built for entertainment is irrelevant...it, and the park it represents, is a marvel, a legitimate marvel. If it's not a architectural icon, I don't know what qualifies. Let's not forget, the Eiffel Tower--an undisputed icon--was built to amaze the visitors at a world's fair. Hmm, sound familiar? :animwink:

My main point is just that you shouldn't add hyper-marketed "fun and magic" to something just because it's in a place known as Disney World. Since 1955 the architecture of the Disney parks has been ridiculed for being false and irrelevant. With EPCOT Center, Disney had something on their hands that could have refuted that argument--a park that was full to the brim of Disney creativity and imagination for the new century, with no castle in sight. But sometime in the last decade Disney began submitting to that same "just a theme park" school of thought, and in the process they shot themselves in the foot...architecturally speaking. Here was a company that had tremendous potential to spearhead some real imaginative architectural projects, but instead decided to label themselves the way everyone else labeled them and reverted to infantile Mickey hands and shiny things. It's not out of architectural snobbery but out of deep respect for Disney's potential when I say it's truly, truly beneath them.

Gah, I could go on and on about that...one of these days I'll try to develop and organize that idea a little better, perhaps in an essay. But you get my drift, I hope. Here's hoping that with the newly "naked" Spaceship Earth, Disney will have a chance to prove their aesthetic clout once more and become a leader in creative architecture.

Thank you for an intelligent argument that doesn't seem to have been written by a 15-year-old.
 

Enigma

Account Suspended
Actually, the wand is the most common complaint regarding SSE. Whether these are normal tourists or Disney freaks is unknown, but that almost doesn't matter. (Thank you, Epcot GR...)

my parents who aren't disney freaks always say the wand and the Lal graveyard look hideous especially compared to the original entry way. I have talked to other average joe's who also think the wand looks ugly.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
While I don't want to get dragged into the debate about whether art is subjective, I will say this: neither side is going to say anything likely to convince the other. I learned this much from studying the philosophy of aesthetics; even in circles of pretentious scholars, there is dissent.

However, most of these individuals (again, I will reiterate that they are pretentious) and a majority of philosophers (at least the ones I studied...again, also pretentious) agreed certain things have qualities that make them more pleasing to individuals with refined senses (the example that's used again and again is wine--someone who doesn't have a refined palate may think all wine tastes the same, or cheap wine is better than a $10,000 bottle, and that is simply not the case). From there, if something is more pleasing to the refined senses, it is beautiful, and from there, art. The entire population does not have to agree that something is art (according to the logic here) for it to be art.

Also keep in mind that there are widely accepted rules of composition, etc. I have also noticed that the argument for the wand being art has focused, at times, on the fact that Disney created it, and as the creator, knows what's best. First of all, there is a reflexive nature in this. Disney could have created it with intentions based on marketing, realized the f'd up the artistic value of the wand, and is now tearing it down. Also remember that art is not their only motivation. As a business, they most likely added the wand from a marketing standpoint with complete disregard for the artistic value of the sphere.
 

mousermerf

Account Suspended
Litmus test...

Find someone, anyone, ask them to draw Spaceship Earth at Epcot. For most people saying just that should work to bring about the image.

They'll doodle a ball, probably draw some triangles on it, and maybe even put the legs on it.

No wand. The chances of them drawing the wand are slim and nil.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
So let's talk about something that really matters: will they ever turn the volume back up on the ambience music? I remember entering the entrance area at Epcot in years past to hear the Entrance Loop booming from the speakers as an inspirational entry to the park...nowadays, background music is not nearly loud enough.
 

mousermerf

Account Suspended
It seemed to be at a decent volume recently. Though I do question which version of the loop is playing. I think I heard the old Seas theme.
 

mousermerf

Account Suspended
did they turn it back up, then? I could barely hear it last time I went...drove me mad.

The horrible songs from Peter Pan were inescapable during Flower and Garden.
I can't wait for Christmas :rolleyes:

What will they do? Only play a new loop or theme for SSE for 23 days and then switch to Christmas?
 

Lee

Adventurer
Let's give a big "Thank You" to Siemens, too, since they insisted the thing come down ASAP. (They were here recently.)

The way I heard it, they didn't like the wand, and would like to see it down...but not if they had to foot the bill. For that kind of money they could live with it.
 

mousermerf

Account Suspended
My non-Disney Geek friend suggested they put a little box for donations near the Wand and they'd have it paid off in a few weeks.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
The horrible songs from Peter Pan were inescapable during Flower and Garden.
I can't wait for Christmas :rolleyes:

What will they do? Only play a new loop or theme for SSE for 23 days and then switch to Christmas?
I hate that they have these song layovers at the entrance--what they ought to do is take the existing music and add some festive music intersparsed with the stuff you actually hear in the parks. Entering the park hearing music that has nothing to do with the actual park is stifling to me. At Christmas, they could even just play the in park music, but add some festive jingle bell sound effects to the music--it would be both festive AND park-themed...and they wouldn't have to keep paying for the rights to use all the classic Christmas carols.
 

brkgnews

Well-Known Member
The horrible songs from Peter Pan were inescapable during Flower and Garden.
I can't wait for Christmas :rolleyes:

What will they do? Only play a new loop or theme for SSE for 23 days and then switch to Christmas?
No kidding. I probably entered EPCOT 10-15 times during Flower and Garden and not once did I feel like I had entered EPCOT. Amazing what a part the music plays in the theming.

I felt like I was entering MK.
 

mousermerf

Account Suspended
I hate that they have these song layovers at the entrance--what they ought to do is take the existing music and add some festive music intersparsed with the stuff you actually hear in the parks. Entering the park hearing music that has nothing to do with the actual park is stifling to me. At Christmas, they could even just play the in park music, but add some festive jingle bell sound effects to the music--it would be both festive AND park-themed...and they wouldn't have to keep paying for the rights to use all the classic Christmas carols.

It was worse then usual this year, with a whole pirates-themed loop (which included peter pan) playing in the entrance, then songs from Cinderella playing directly behind SSE, then snow what and beauty and the beast songs playing on the bridge to world showcase and then finally pirates movie soundtrack playing in showcase plaza.

It was horrible.
 
It was worse then usual this year, with a whole pirates-themed loop (which included peter pan) playing in the entrance, then songs from Cinderella playing directly behind SSE, then snow what and beauty and the beast songs playing on the bridge to world showcase and then finally pirates movie soundtrack playing in showcase plaza.

It was horrible.
Yuck. That does sound horrible!:hurl:
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It was worse then usual this year, with a whole pirates-themed loop (which included peter pan) playing in the entrance, then songs from Cinderella playing directly behind SSE, then snow what and beauty and the beast songs playing on the bridge to world showcase and then finally pirates movie soundtrack playing in showcase plaza.

It was horrible.
great...I haven't been to WDW in over a year and I'll be back next May...for Flower and Garden. I have that garbage to look forward to. Great.
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
I hate that they have these song layovers at the entrance--what they ought to do is take the existing music and add some festive music intersparsed with the stuff you actually hear in the parks. Entering the park hearing music that has nothing to do with the actual park is stifling to me. At Christmas, they could even just play the in park music, but add some festive jingle bell sound effects to the music--it would be both festive AND park-themed...and they wouldn't have to keep paying for the rights to use all the classic Christmas carols.

Kyle, Kyle, Kyle...Haven't we been over this before? :wave:

First of all, classic Christmas songs are generally public domain. You might be paying a royalty to the compser, but it could also be Disney's composition! Second of all ACSAP and BMI do not charge a per song royalty per se. Disney's ASCAP fees are based upon attendance, not what or how many ASCAP covered songs are used at the resort. (Same for BMI)
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Kyle, Kyle, Kyle...Haven't we been over this before? :wave:

First of all, classic Christmas songs are generally public domain. You might be paying a royalty to the compser, but it could also be Disney's composition! Second of all ACSAP and BMI do not charge a per song royalty per se. Disney's ASCAP fees are based upon attendance, not what or how many ASCAP covered songs are used at the resort. (Same for BMI)
oh...well either way, my music idea is better!
 

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