Bob Iger treated Disneyland with kid gloves — but took a sledgehammer to the ill-conceived DCA - OCR/SCNG

[Darkbeer1]

I stand corrected. But toy story mania was before pixar pier right? My point is changing the pier to pixar pier did not bring in the crowds on a already popular peir at that point. People just wanted to go to the pier again sfter being closed for months when pixar pier opened.

I am talking 2001, when you had these gems....

Yesterland: Sun Wheel

Yesterland: Maliboomer

Yesterland: Orange Stinger

Yesterland: Pizza Oom Mow Mow

Reboundo Beach at Yesterland

Yesterland: Burger Invasion

Yesterland: S.S. rustworthy

Yesterland: Mulholland Madness

Yesterland: Dinosaur Jack’s Sunglass Shack

The Original Corn Dog Castle at Yesterland

Yesterland: Private Entrance for Disney’s Paradise Pier Hotel Guests

Souvenir 66 at Yesterland

Man Hat n’ Beach at Yesterland

Games of the Boardwalk at Yesterland

Malibu-Ritos at Yesterland

Yesterland: Pacific Ocean Photos

Yesterland: Boardwalk Betsy’s Strips, Dips ’n’ Chips

 

[bestcoastracer]

Um no. the pier was always popular. putting pixar crap on it just made it tacky(er) but still popular as it ever was.

Gimmicky or not it was a draw for the 2018 season and has been more photographed and geo-tagged more than Paradise Pier. It makes a difference in Disney's eyes, free marketing and high guest social engagement to them. Just looking at the hashtags where Pixar Pier is only 2 years old compared to the previous 7 years of Paradise Pier (on Instagram).

INSTAGRAM:

#paradisepier​

115,863 posts

#pixarpier​

173,875 posts

Going on socials and you'll see how photogenic and fun most audiences think Pixar Pier is or else they wouldn't be posting.

 

[TP2000]

Let me take you back...

The year was 2018. The world still had most of it’s innocence intact, SW:GE hadn’t disappointed anyone yet, and Paradise Pier was gone. Pixar Pier was soon to be unveiled...

The Incredicoaster had received its Jack Jack’s On a Stick...
The Abominable Snowman was soon to be selling yellow snow...
An entire Churro stand has received a Buzz Lightyear overlay...

And all of the wonderment and excited could be “previewed” the day before it opened... for a mere $299.

Ah, the good old days.

Oh gosh, I'd forgotten about that!

What's even more embarrassing is that a bunch of AP'ers actually paid that money and showed up for it. Although I remember reports that they didn't sell all the tickets they had, and the concept was a bust, much like Pixar Pier itself.

It's probably why they didn't try that stunt again for Star Wars Land the following year.

 

[TP2000]

All this talk of Pixar Pier reminds me... has anyone heard from John Lassetter lately?

After he was dumped in a #MeToo scandal, has anyone heard what he's up to? Besides drinking, obviously.

 

[October82]

Gimmicky or not it was a draw for the 2018 season and has been more photographed and geo-tagged more than Paradise Pier. It makes a difference in Disney's eyes, free marketing and high guest social engagement to them. Just looking at the hashtags where Pixar Pier is only 2 years old compared to the previous 7 years of Paradise Pier (on Instagram).

INSTAGRAM:

#paradisepier​

115,863 posts

#pixarpier​

173,875 posts

Going on socials and you'll see how photogenic and fun most audiences think Pixar Pier is or else they wouldn't be posting.

Yeah, this is a kind of naive point to try and make. Instagram is a new platform whose user base has changed dramatically (exponentially, actually) during the time periods you're trying to compare. Failing to account for that makes this pretty clearly a self-defeating point. Something like a 30% year over year increase in instagram's user base during the transition between the two. If anything, these numbers suggest that people are less engaged on social media with Pixar Pier than its previous incarnation. I'm actually surprised to see that.

I'm sure instagram cares about their absolute number of users. Disney probably doesn't. They don't profit off instagram engagement. Where Disney profits and the reason these sorts of changes are made at all is to increase how attached consumers are to the brands Disney is selling. If people aren't posting on social media at a higher rate than before, they're probably not buying merchandise for associated IPs either.

 

[Brer Panther]

The Abominable Snowman was soon to be selling yellow snow...

Kinda disappointed the Abominable Snowman's frozen treats stand doesn't actually sell snow cones...

 

[el_super]

Personal disconnect. If money was the motivation there would have been at least some attempt to replicate Disney's biggest stateside success in years. Why forbid your team from doing something that made you money if that is the only driver?

So a couple options right: Either money really is the motivation and there are other factors being calculated into the total cost that make something like Everest not worth it financially. Aside from the tangible gains like ticket sales and merchandise sales: something like marketing or guest satisfaction (intent to return). Or it really is something down on a sliding scale of personal decision or creative decision. I tend to still think it's about the money, and it's just something we don't see that makes an Everest-esque attraction, not a viable option at other parks.

The park's original concept was very much flawed. The park's deep flaws in its layout has never been addressed. The flawed subject needed work but it didn't need the same concept that has been thrown onto every other Disney park.

On a personal level I agree. Sometimes you really do want a salad. But this is part of the danger of perpetuating this idea that Iger "saved" DCA by adding all these IP attractions, or even admitting that DCA was all that flawed to begin with.

Cars Land started development long before Lasseter started to lose clout.

Sorry I was referring to Pixar Pier here. Spending the money to "fix" the pier couldn't have been solely for appeasing Lasseter. Completely anecdotal, I know, but considering his behavior at the announcement onstage, it seems that there were already some obvious red flags that would suggesting keeping him around was not in the company's best interest.

Removing the Lasseter factor though, the "fix" for the Pier is still completely within the direction Iger has taken with DCA.

 

[Miru]

All this talk of Pixar Pier reminds me... has anyone heard from John Lassetter lately?

After he was dumped in a #MeToo scandal, has anyone heard what he's up to? Besides drinking, obviously.

He did try to start his own studio, but I think that studio closed due to COVID.

 

[el_super]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, Test Track is "anti-Disney"? How? Because it doesn't have an IP attached to it? Because it's a thrill ride? By that logic, are Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain Railroad "anti-Disney" too?

To a degree, yeah. The non-story driven thrill rides are not what Disney was originally about. They introduced a genre of ride that was not family oriented (with many having height requirements or being frightening to children). Rides that didn't require any sort of art direction or scenic design. Rides where details weren't required because the motion was too fast.

Admittedly they've been around since the Matterhorn, and I'm definitely not suggesting that they are terrible in any way. Just that they appear to a different audience than your traditional Disney audience. Rock N Roller Coaster wouldn't have any place in Disneyland park, so you have to create a new park with a different feel in order to accommodate it. I'm using it in this context to refer to an attraction that wouldn't really fit in Disneyland.

I'm not bashing Cars Land or anything, I just disagree with the claim that "no IP = anti-Disney".

The majority of people I've seen on here don't like Seven Dwarves Mine Train or Navi River Journey. I like them, though.

Disney survives off the strength of their brand, and, at least to Iger, that means their IP.

Yeah, I think claiming that Disney fans dislike non-IP rides and only want IP rides is a bit absurd. People love rides like the Haunted Mansion

Yeah but we also have the conundrum of watching the line for Haunted Mansion jump from 30 minutes daily to 60+ every time they roll out the Nightmare Before Christmas. Yes, people love the Haunted Mansion, but I think it would be silly to suggest that the Hatbox Ghost has a broader reach or more fans than Jack Skeleton.

 

[el_super]

Not at the beginning, Toy Story Midway Mania helped bring in the crowds.

folks would come ride the Coaster, and move on.

There's a fatal flaw in this argument though: Most of the original rides that were there in 2001, are still there. The Sun Wheel is still there, now with Mickey on it. Orange Stinger is still there, now with Mickey on it. Mulholland Madness is still there, now with Goofy. Jumpin Jellyfish and Golden Zephyr are both still there, unchanged. The only thing removed was the Maliboomer, and it was eventually replaced with another carnival attraction.

If we're trying to claim that there was no interest in those carnival rides back in 2001, but there is now... there's only one thing we can attribute that change to: the addition of the IP.

 

[flynnibus]

On a personal level I agree. Sometimes you really do want a salad. But this is part of the danger of perpetuating this idea that Iger "saved" DCA by adding all these IP attractions, or even admitting that DCA was all that flawed to begin with.

Removing the Lasseter factor though, the "fix" for the Pier is still completely within the direction Iger has taken with DCA.

I honestly have no idea what position with Iger and IP you are actually trying to argue anymore...

 

[flynnibus]

If we're trying to claim that there was no interest in those carnival rides back in 2001, but there is now... there's only one thing we can attribute that change to: the addition of the IP.

No - because you are missing the forest for the trees. They did more than just paint mickey on the fun wheel for DCA v2

They updated the quality and detail of the pier... they put more character and style into it. They updated the food, they updated the games, AND they reskinned several of the rides... all while making the thing more cohesive... all while upgrading the park around it.

They made it more a theme park and less a collection of carnival rides on a fake pier.

 

[Mac Tonight]

All this talk of Pixar Pier reminds me... has anyone heard from John Lassetter lately?

After he was dumped in a #MeToo scandal, has anyone heard what he's up to? Besides drinking, obviously.

He did try to start his own studio, but I think that studio closed due to COVID.

Not exactly.

He was hired to run Skydance Animation Studios in January 2019 (literally days after his Disney "official" departure) and has been there ever since.

Some cursory reading on the company Wikipedia page says they're still up and running, having recently acquired an animation studio from Madrid, and as of April 2020, were working with Disney Legend Alan Menken, on a new feature which is slated to debut in 2022 through a distribution deal with Apple TV+.

 

[el_super]

I honestly have no idea what position with Iger and IP you are actually trying to argue anymore...

The idea that Iger fixed DCA by adding all these IPs to it.

They made it more a theme park and less a collection of carnival rides on a fake pier.

It's still a collection of carnival rides on a fake pier. If the primary objection to having a Ferris Wheel in a Disney theme park was the nature of the ride, then sticking Mickey's face on it, or Pixar Characters on the carriages, shouldn't have fixed that. It's not a matter of missing the forest for the trees as much as it is, trying to claim that the forest is completely different because three trees were removed.

 

[flynnibus]

The idea that Iger fixed DCA by adding all these IPs to it.



It's still a collection of carnival rides on a fake pier. If the primary objection to having a Ferris Wheel in a Disney theme park was the nature of the ride, then sticking Mickey's face on it, or Pixar Characters on the carriages, shouldn't have fixed that. It's not a matter of missing the forest for the trees as much as it is, trying to claim that the forest is completely different because three trees were removed.

There is no point in having a discussion if you just want to look at one piece of something and ignore everything else in the mix. And yes, that is missing the forest for the trees.

 

[choco choco]

He did try to start his own studio, but I think that studio closed due to COVID.

John Lasseter has been very successful after being removed from Disney. He's head of the major animation studio Skydance. Ostensibly they are under Paramount, but it looks like Apple managed to swoop in and take their next couple of films, which should be out in 2022.

He literally faced zero (0!!) repercussions for his bad behavior.

 

[el_super]

There is no point in having a discussion if you just want to look at one piece of something and ignore everything else in the mix. And yes, that is missing the forest for the trees.

So aside from anything that had a character or IP added, what was your favorite change at Paradise Pier that "fixed" it from the 2001 version?

 

[Mac Tonight]

One thing that I think often gets overlooked in these kinds of discussions is the idea that people are often easily taken in and persuaded (perhaps subconsciously) to enjoy something more than they normally might, simply because something is new or different.

HMH probably gets a lot of it's popularity for the sheer fact that it's different than the normal version (also, being exclusively available during busier holiday seasons probably also helps a lot). By the same token, and I admit it's a bit a bad analogy, but McDonald's only brings out the McRib for random, limited time offerings. If it was available year round, I bet overall sales would decline.

Pixar Pier likely initially drew large crowds because of people's obsession with experiencing NEW! in Disney parks. But once the realization settled in that not much was really different, it's novelty wears off until the next big thing comes around.

 

[Stevek]

One thing that I think often gets overlooked in these kinds of discussions is the idea that people are often easily taken in and persuaded (perhaps subconsciously) to enjoy something more than they normally might, simply because something is new or different.

HMH probably gets a lot of it's popularity for the sheer fact that it's different than the normal version (also, being exclusively available during busier holiday seasons probably also helps a lot). By the same token, and I admit it's a bit a bad analogy, but McDonald's only brings out the McRib for random, limited time offerings. If it was available year round, I bet overall sales would decline.

Pixar Pier likely initially drew large crowds because of people's obsession with experiencing NEW! in Disney parks. But once the realization settled in that not much was really different, it's novelty wears off until the next big thing comes around.

Pretty typical of our instant gratification society. It's all about the new and then next shiny object. Disney fans are notorious for this as well.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Pretty typical of our instant gratification society. It's all about the new and then next shiny object. Disney fans are notorious for this as well.

100%

Add in the ever-growing popularity of Disney vlogging, and it's no wonder that anything new becomes almost an instant "success". Disneyland could probably unveil a new restroom on Main St. and the next day there would be 100 YouTube videos giving you a "full walk-through POV".