News Bob Iger is back! Chapek is out!!

[correcaminos]

…he’s supposed to…

I would definitely tip them…because the amount they are paid and the amount that goes directly to bad directors at LFL are severely disproportionate

More than usual I should say. Hard to explain without being there. He was amazing and I loved hearing his story on how he became one and why. Also his feelings on being one during restrictions. Harder to connect with guests when you have to leave them so much. Another guide we had actually didn't refuse which I know they are 'supposed to' didn't bother me though.

 

[correcaminos]

To be clear, I'm not doing a VIP tour so no need to worry about me not appreciating any poor castmember.

I can afford Diseny but I can't afford that - not for a single adult paying that for him and his child which for me, is what it would be.

Also, I'm not talking about screw!ng anyone out of a gratuity - not really.

I'm talking about Disney charging as much as $6,300 for an experiencing of which I'm pretty sure they are not paying that castmember on a seasonal scale the way they're charging, meaning that their only expense on that whole offering is the base pay of castmember regardless of if it's $3,150 on coupon day or the full $6,300.

Okay, we'll add 50% to that original guestimate someone threw out of $20 to cover social security and taxes so lets say $30 an hour = $210 - give or take a few.

That's a markup on actual cost of between 1500% and 3000% and I was basing this on the notion that Disney had the nerve to remind you that gratuities aren't included.*

For that kind of pricing, I feel like they could find a way to maybe pay their guides more - don't you?

I know, I know - magic, pixie dust, can't put a price on dreams or street opioids when you really need 'em, etc. but nobody will ever convince me that price is worth it for access to SDMT unless you're Beyoncé and need crowd control to even go to a park.

*All of this was with JoeCamel reminding me of the gratuity and the last time I looked, I thought it said something about that on the VIP tour page. Looking just now, it doesn't so it has either changed or I just remembered that wrong.

My main beef was the kind of brass you-knows Disney would have to have to charge what they do and then tell people they should tip - again, at least as of now, they don't appear to make mention of that on their site, at lest so my minor burst of outrage there wasn't warranted.

I'm all for gratuity when it is entirely voluntary and intended to reflect appreciation for quality service but now I go into stores where nobody helps me and I get to the register and the system is trying to get me to add between 20-35% gratuity or I go through a drive-through to pick up fastfood and am faced with the same choice and I'm still trying to figure out for what, exactly but that's really another discussion.

Except they don't. I only learned protocol for tipping guides (VIP, private cruises etc) from forums. Disney never said anything. In fact I felt horrible the first time cruising not realizing that I could tip and hardly had cash on hand to do so.

 

[MrPromey]

*They are office and technical. I'm sorry you have not heard of that but maybe it's not me that is sounding like they don't know what they're talking about.

It's a hybrid between hourly and salaried, but it does get overtime. So yes, they are not hourly as you would typically consider for Walt Disney World, but they also do still qualify for overtime. Office and technical cast members are not covered by the union and do not have Union contracted rates.

As for tipping, Yes I was having some snarky fun there. And now you provided a large context of why you don't feel like you should tip and when you feel like you should. Noted. But snarky fun put aside, I didn't mean to turn this into another tipping debate thread so I'm not going to counter any of those points.

Well now that the snarky fun is over, maybe you can enlighten me on how the hourly but not hourly "hybrid" works because there are laws that make pretty clear the difference between exempt and non-exempt employees.

You do realize that someone can have a job in an office, even one that's "technical", and still be an hourly employee, right?*

These people wear a pretty stylized uniform which also makes it hard for me to believe they aren't guest facing in some capacity 90% of the time in their jobs unless they're just changing out of their business slacks from their "technical" job to go do these tours for a day.

Even managers that walk around with the pooper-scoopers to look aproachable are usually at least business casual.

I'd really love to learn about this salary plus overtime thing you say Disney has going for these folks and since it sounds like you understand the inner workings quite well, I'm thinking you're the person to explain it.

I'm glad you're not going to counter any of my opinions on tipping since they are my opinions and it isn't your job to change my mind about how the world works. Maybe one day, banks will start giving you the opportunity to tip your ATM when you get a withdraw. If you want to do that, I'm not going to tell you how to live your life, either.

*BTW, what is this "technical" you speak of? Are they writing code or fixing computer hardware or designing the track layout to new attractions while not not giving tours? Just curious what in your mind is "technical" since you keep using that word like there is some obvious meaning to it. Most office jobs would not be classified as technical at all in the traditional American English use of the term unless you're my 80 year old aunt who considers anything done sitting in front of a computer to be technical.

 

[MrPromey]

Except they don't. I only learned protocol for tipping guides (VIP, private cruises etc) from forums. Disney never said anything. In fact I felt horrible the first time cruising not realizing that I could tip and hardly had cash on hand to do so.

I know I wrote a whole bunch there but at the end, I did catch it - that they don't* which really made my whole rant moot in the context of this discussion.

*I swear I'd seen something in the past about gratuity not included or gratuity appreciated or something along those lines on the site but it may very well have been a non-Disney page breaking down the experience that I'm confusing or even something relating to an entirely different resort experience that I just conflated.

 

[Disone]

Well now that the snarky fun is over, maybe you can enlighten me on how the hourly but not hourly "hybrid" works because there are laws that make pretty clear the difference between exempt and non-exempt employees.

You do realize that someone can have a job in an office, even one that's "technical", and still be an hourly employee, right?*

These people wear a pretty stylized uniform which also makes it hard for me to believe they aren't guest facing in some capacity 90% of the time in their jobs unless they're just changing out of their business slacks from their "technical" job to go do these tours for a day.

Even managers that walk around with the pooper-scoopers to look aproachable are usually at least business casual.

I'd really love to learn about this salary plus overtime thing you say Disney has going for these folks and since it sounds like you understand the inner workings quite well, I'm thinking you're the person to explain it.

I'm glad you're not going to counter any of my opinions on tipping since they are my opinions and it isn't your job to change my mind about how the world works. Maybe one day, banks will start giving you the opportunity to tip your ATM when you get a withdraw. If you want to do that, I'm not going to tell you how to live your life, either.

*BTW, what is this "technical" you speak of? Are they writing code or fixing computer hardware or designing the track layout to new attractions while not not giving tours? Just curious what in your mind is "technical" since you keep using that word like there is some obvious meaning to it. Most office jobs would not be classified as technical at all in the traditional American English use of the term unless you're my 80 year old aunt who considers anything done sitting in front of a computer to be technical.

Mrpromey.... Please relax. I know what hourly is. What you may not realize is that Walt Disney World has more than two categories of employment. Not everyone falls nicely into a bucket of hourly or salaried.

There is a third category that is literally called "Office and Technical".

This is not a term I'm making up. I don't think you seem to understand that I'm not talking hypothetically here.

While they are legally an hourly employee, they are not covered by the union and their hourly rates are not dictated by the union. They start within a predetermined range and from there they get individual merit races. Merit raises, like a salaried employee does, not contractually obligated raises. Unlike a salaried employee, they are absolutely still eligible for overtime and that still kicks in after over 8 hours in a day or 40 hours in a week.

The Plaids are Office and Technical. They are not covered by the union contract and their rates are not in the union contract.

It was insinuated that they are poorly paid. They are not poorly paid and do in fact get what I would consider to be a very decent compensation package. If you don't that's fine, but you seem to be really worked up about this and I'm just kind of throwing in some information. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Chi84]

Except they don't. I only learned protocol for tipping guides (VIP, private cruises etc) from forums. Disney never said anything. In fact I felt horrible the first time cruising not realizing that I could tip and hardly had cash on hand to do so.

Things change also. We usually rent a Beachcomber's Shack at Typhoon Lagoon and in years past the attendant CMs refused tips saying that they weren't allowed. On our October 2022 trip, we were talking with the CM and said it's too bad tips aren't allowed. He said that under their new union contract, they are allowed to accept tips. (Not representing that as accurate - just reporting what we were told.)

 

[MrPromey]

Mrpromey.... Please relax. I know what hourly is. What you may not realize is that Walt Disney World has more than two categories of employment. Not everyone falls nicely into a bucket of hourly or salaried.

There is a third category that is literally called "Office and Technical".

This is not a term I'm making up. I don't think you seem to understand that I'm not talking hypothetically here.

While they are legally an hourly employee, they are not covered by the union and their hourly rates are not dictated by the union. They start within a predetermined range and from there they get individual merit races. Merit raises, like a salaried employee does, not contractually obligated raises. Unlike a salaried employee, they are absolutely still eligible for overtime and that still kicks in after over 8 hours in a day or 40 hours in a week.

The Plaids are Office and Technical. They are not covered by the union contract and their rates are not in the union contract.

It was insinuated that they are poorly paid. They are not poorly paid and do in fact get what I would consider to be a very decent compensation package. If you don't that's fine, but you seem to be really worked up about this and I'm just kind of throwing in some information. Your mileage may vary.

I still don't get how what you're describing is "hybrid".

Your third bucket is literally how any hourly job I've ever worked in my life goes. All of my raises, hourly or salary have been merit-based.

I realize that a big chunk of hourly cast at Disney are union but most hourly employees in Florida are not.

What you're describing is not a hybrid position. It's literally life as an hourly employee for any non-union employee.

Maybe Disney calls it hybrid internally but nobody outside Disney would.

Maybe that's where the confusion is here - because non-union hourly employees at Disney are less common but are by far the norm everywhere else around here.

Disney welcomed in the unions when they first set up shop in Florida which was and still is unusual in this state - I bet they've been regretting that move for quite a few years, now.

 

[correcaminos]

I know I wrote a whole bunch there but at the end, I did catch it - that they don't* which really made my whole rant moot in the context of this discussion.

*I swear I'd seen something in the past about gratuity not included or gratuity appreciated or something along those lines on the site but it may very well have been a non-Disney page breaking down the experience that I'm confusing or even something relating to an entirely different resort experience that I just conflated.

I don't ever recall seeing that on Disney sites. In fact Disney has been rather mum in the past. I think you're thinking of non-Disney owned sites.

Things change also. We usually rent a Beachcomber's Shack at Typhoon Lagoon and in years past the attendant CMs refused tips saying that they weren't allowed. On our October 2022 trip, we were talking with the CM and said it's too bad tips aren't allowed. He said that under their new union contract, they are allowed to accept tips. (Not representing that as accurate - just reporting what we were told.)

They absolutely do! I try to keep up on things when possible but often changes occur without us knowing until we get there. As a rare cash carrying person it can easily bite me for a change like you said.

 

[jpeden]

Well now that the snarky fun is over, maybe you can enlighten me on how the hourly but not hourly "hybrid" works because there are laws that make pretty clear the difference between exempt and non-exempt employees.

You do realize that someone can have a job in an office, even one that's "technical", and still be an hourly employee, right?*

These people wear a pretty stylized uniform which also makes it hard for me to believe they aren't guest facing in some capacity 90% of the time in their jobs unless they're just changing out of their business slacks from their "technical" job to go do these tours for a day.

Even managers that walk around with the pooper-scoopers to look aproachable are usually at least business casual.

I'd really love to learn about this salary plus overtime thing you say Disney has going for these folks and since it sounds like you understand the inner workings quite well, I'm thinking you're the person to explain it.

I'm glad you're not going to counter any of my opinions on tipping since they are my opinions and it isn't your job to change my mind about how the world works. Maybe one day, banks will start giving you the opportunity to tip your ATM when you get a withdraw. If you want to do that, I'm not going to tell you how to live your life, either.

*BTW, what is this "technical" you speak of? Are they writing code or fixing computer hardware or designing the track layout to new attractions while not not giving tours? Just curious what in your mind is "technical" since you keep using that word like there is some obvious meaning to it. Most office jobs would not be classified as technical at all in the traditional American English use of the term unless you're my 80 year old aunt who considers anything done sitting in front of a computer to be technical.

My company has three types of payroll - hourly, salaried bi-weekly, and monthly. The first two are FLSA Non-Exempt categories of employment, and as such are subject to overtime requirements. Hourly employees make an hourly wage, but are not guaranteed a set salaried amount. Salaried bi-weekly are guaranteed a base amount, but are paid bi-weekly like hourly employees and are subject to overtime provisions (meaning if they work overtime they get paid for it, even though they are salaried). Monthly employees are paid monthly and are FLSA exempt, meaning they are not subject to overtime requirements.

I imagine that Office and Technical jobs have a set salary, which is converted into an hourly rate. They are paid that hourly rate but because they don't meet FLSA exemption status for their type of job, they can and do earn overtime based on their calculated hourly rate.

This is not a complicated matter - it literally exists in thousands of companies that employ various types of employees where employees are on differnt types of payroll, but they are still under the same FLSA status.

 

[MrPromey]

My company has three types of payroll - hourly, salaried bi-weekly, and monthly. The first two are FLSA Non-Exempt categories of employment, and as such are subject to overtime requirements. Hourly employees make an hourly wage, but are not guaranteed a set salaried amount. Salaried bi-weekly are guaranteed a base amount, but are paid bi-weekly like hourly employees and are subject to overtime provisions (meaning if they work overtime they get paid for it, even though they are salaried). Monthly employees are paid monthly and are FLSA exempt, meaning they are not subject to overtime requirements.

I imagine that Office and Technical jobs have a set salary, which is converted into an hourly rate. They are paid that hourly rate but because they don't meet FLSA exemption status for their type of job, they can and do earn overtime based on their calculated hourly rate.

This is not a complicated matter - it literally exists in thousands of companies that employ various types of employees where employees are on differnt types of payroll, but they are still under the same FLSA status.

So in your example for bi-weekly salaried, these people are guaranteed a base amount based on an hourly pay whether they work those base minimum hours or not but if they go over those hours, they get overtime?

That would make them hourly employees based on FLSA but with perks, basically?

 

[GhostHost1000]

In the days before reserved seating, had you never been to a sold out show where the staff made people shuffle over to fill in all the seats? Or gone to book a seat now and seen a nearly full theater with only a few sets of seats here and there? People don’t sort themselves in the most efficient manner. Pushing things to be more real time allows for more direct control because you’re not just filling in the pre-booked gaps. The goal Disney has been working towards for awhile now is giving people a schedule to follow.

But it’s really not. There’s not a schedule anyone can plan for using it. It’s filling up popular attractions early and then during the day rather than prior to the day. The lines are gonna be the lines in my opinion regardless of g+ or fp+…one could even argue g+ has people walking throughout the parks even more than before because of the zig zag and no ability to plan a section at a time

 

[lazyboy97o]

But it’s really not. There’s not a schedule anyone can plan for using it. It’s filling up popular attractions early and then during the day rather than prior to the day. The lines are gonna be the lines in my opinion regardless of g+ or fp+…one could even argue g+ has people walking throughout the parks even more than before because of the zig zag and no ability to plan a section at a time

The planning isn’t done by the guest. Disney wants to do the planning so they can put you where they want you.

 

[GhostHost1000]

The planning isn’t done by the guest. Disney wants to do the planning so they can put you where they want you.

i know what they want to do... but it's not happening that way

I just have a hard time seeing how it's helping things (other than their bottom line) and frustrating guests

 

[Jrb1979]

i know what they want to do... but it's not happening that way

I just have a hard time seeing how it's helping things (other than their bottom line) and frustrating guests

It's not for the guest and never was for the guest. It's Disney only and it is working. Instead of MK being the crowded park, it's pushing the guests to all parks.

 

[MrPromey]

But it’s really not. There’s not a schedule anyone can plan for using it. It’s filling up popular attractions early and then during the day rather than prior to the day. The lines are gonna be the lines in my opinion regardless of g+ or fp+…one could even argue g+ has people walking throughout the parks even more than before because of the zig zag and no ability to plan a section at a time

I think this, to some degree, has been a problem since FP but really became one with FP+ because it absolutely does create a problem with traffic flow and also makes it harder for secondary attractions (B,C,D tickets) to pull their weight the way they were intended.

Those of course, are swamped too, in part, thanks to them all being Genie+ attractions, themselves, while also being expected to serve as what people expect to keep themselves occupied with while they wait for their e-ticket ride time.

This feels like it could be part of the reason it's so hard for them to put much effort into non-E-Tickts, these days.

Back in the FP+ days it was "do we really want to waste a fastpass on x?" but sometimes "x" and the other attractions like it were all they had any left for.

It seems to me, anyway, that that kind of thing puts a lot of pressure on every new thing to be amazing... or at least be treated like it is.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

But it’s really not. There’s not a schedule anyone can plan for using it. It’s filling up popular attractions early and then during the day rather than prior to the day. The lines are gonna be the lines in my opinion regardless of g+ or fp+…one could even argue g+ has people walking throughout the parks even more than before because of the zig zag and no ability to plan a section at a time

The planning isn’t done by the guest. Disney wants to do the planning so they can put you where they want you.

I think you guys are both overstating the case. I don't think anyone (in meaningful numbers) actually does what Genie tells them to, nor do I think Disney expects them to.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think this, to some degree, has been a problem since FP but really became one with FP+ because it absolutely does create a problem with traffic flow and also makes it harder for secondary attractions (B,C,D tickets) to pull their weight the way they were intended.

Those of course, are swamped too, in part, thanks to them all being Genie+ attractions, themselves, while also being expected to serve as what people expect to keep themselves occupied with while they wait for their e-ticket ride time.

This feels like it could be part of the reason it's so hard for them to put much effort into non-E-Tickts, these days.

Back in the FP+ days it was "do we really want to waste a fastpass on x?" but sometimes "x" and the other attractions like it were all they had any left for.

It seems to me, anyway, that that kind of thing puts a lot of pressure on every new thing to be amazing... or at least be treated like it is.

Pushing people to smaller attractions was a key part of FastPass+. It’s supposed to be a more efficient use of existing capacity that ignores the need for slack in the system.

Disney’s bigger problem with smaller scale attractions is that they just can’t do them anymore. They cost too much to not be expected to drive a return on investment.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I think this, to some degree, has been a problem since FP but really became one with FP+ because it absolutely does create a problem with traffic flow and also makes it harder for secondary attractions (B,C,D tickets) to pull their weight the way they were intended.

Those of course, are swamped too, in part, thanks to them all being Genie+ attractions, themselves, while also being expected to serve as what people expect to keep themselves occupied with while they wait for their e-ticket ride time.

This feels like it could be part of the reason it's so hard for them to put much effort into non-E-Tickts, these days.

Back in the FP+ days it was "do we really want to waste a fastpass on x?" but sometimes "x" and the other attractions like it were all they had any left for.

It seems to me, anyway, that that kind of thing puts a lot of pressure on every new thing to be amazing... or at least be treated like it is.

Alien Swirling Saucers. Lightning McQueen's Racing Academy. Remy's Ratatouille Adventure. Na'vi River Journey. Millennium Falcon: Smuggler's Run.

Lots of new stuff isn't intended to be super-headliner tier.

Pushing people to smaller attractions was a key part of FastPass+. It’s supposed to be a more efficient use of existing capacity that ignores the need for slack in the system.

Disney’s bigger problem with smaller scale attractions is that they just can’t do them anymore. They cost too much to not be expected to drive a return on investment.

 

[MrPromey]

Alien Swirling Saucers. Lightning McQueen's Racing Academy. Remy's Ratatouille Adventure. Na'vi River Journey. Millennium Falcon: Smuggler's Run.

Lots of new stuff isn't intended to be super-headliner tier.

I agree these things are designed that way but then they aren't received as such.

90+ minute waits for Slinky Dog and 45 minute waits for Swirling Saucers, for instance.

Don't even get me started on Na'vi River Journey and the waits for that one vs. what you get from it.

It's all off from how that sort of stuff in an amusement/theme park should be and I'm sure there is no single reason for why but I suspect if Tiki Room had Genie+, you'd end up with a standby line for that walk-on, too.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I agree these things are designed that way but then they aren't received as such.

90+ minute waits for Slinky Dog and 45 minute waits for Swirling Saucers, for instance.

Don't even get me started on Na'vi River Journey and the waits for that one.

It's all off from how that sort of stuff in an amusement/theme park should be.

I just don't buy the argument (maybe you're making it, maybe you're not) that Disney's queue management system is to blame. I think Disney Parks fans being insane is to blame. Whether it was FP, FP+, Genie+, or Standby only, people are so obsessed with the next new thing that I don't think we'd see wait times meaningfully improved with a "better" system.