News Bob Iger is back! Chapek is out!!

[SpectroMagician]

The biggest problem with Disney is them greenlighting so much trash content. They have had flop after flop from Disney+ shows (Kenobi specifically) to movies. The content has been objectively bad, so they are losing goodwill. Andor is actually good but no one cares because Star Wars is trash. The new Strange World is a major flop. Love & Thunder and now Wakanda Forever underperformed.

The stories are dumb and they try too hard to push an agenda.

Make good content and people will want to watch. Continue to make trash content and they will continue to lose money.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

I am sorry about your business. As a former independent bookstore owner, I can sort of relate.

Isn’t Disney’s shift in focus from theatrical releases to Disney+ just their effort to avoid what the recording industry went through?

I’m not an expert on streaming, however, I’ve said this before that there are way too many streaming services and IMHO, the bottom will fall out and there will be consolidation of streaming. I think the multitude of companies will shrink to maybe 3-5 companies and they will be a streaming “clearinghouse” and your HBO, Peacock, Paramount and even Disney will license their content to those companies the same way Comcast, Fios, Cablevision, etc. handles cable channels now.

Companies like Disney and Netflix are popular now because they entered on the ground level so to speak but this
Many individual services won’t be sustainable without consolidation. I hope that kinda answers your question.

 

[Casper Gutman]

The biggest problem with Disney is them greenlighting so much trash content. They have had flop after flop from Disney+ shows (Kenobi specifically) to movies. The content has been objectively bad, so they are losing goodwill. Andor is actually good but no one cares because Star Wars is trash. The new Strange World is a major flop. Love & Thunder and now Wakanda Forever underperformed.

The stories are dumb and they try too hard to push an agenda.

Make good content and people will want to watch. Continue to make trash content and they will continue to lose money.

Love and Thunder outperformed Ragnarok domestically and in every international market in which it was allowed to open. It’s total box office fell short of Ragnarok entirely because it wasn’t allowed to open in Russia or China. Wakanda Forever has no clear protagonist and is an ensemble film about grief. With that in mind it’s showing very strong legs with a very small third week drop. Star Wars has two critically and popularly acclaimed ongoing series, one with a huge cultural footprint, one in serious discussions as the best television program of the year. The franchise hasn’t had media this well received since 1983.

All entertainment ever made “pushes an agenda.” We’re just in an incredibly stupid phase of the culture war in which certain people are trying very hard to be offended.

 

[pdude81]

There are some on here talking about home theaters like they are inherently inferior. That really depends on a lot of factors, but I've been in plenty of junk movie theaters, even "IMAX" theaters that are just a big screen in a big room with no ambiance. A well structured home theater can compete sonically and visually with any commercial entity, unless of course you feel that movies are a social event and the reactions of others contribute to the experience. I personally go to the movies to tune out the world, and find other people distracting whenever I notice them.

Now to build a higher end system you're talking thousands of dollars between the electronics, seats, screen, etc... so the bang for your buck is really in going to a nice venue and not spending a ton of cash to brick up a section of your house.

All we can truly count on is that most consumers will be so full of confirmation bias that they are sure their chosen path is right. But what theater chains have to fear and content providers have to factor in is that our home projectors and/or televisions can match the resolution and color profiles of most theaters. This isn't the early 90's where a $3000 50 inch television had the same resolution as the 13" television I played Sega on.

Disney has to think long term about their release strategy as the people who grew up having to pee during commercials die off slowly. I also find that most children spend more time watching tv shows or youtube than sitting through an entire movie. I'm starting to wonder if big blockbuster movies will be a thing in another 20 years, regardless of platform.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Love and Thunder outperformed Ragnarok domestically and in every international market in which it was allowed to open. It’s total box office fell short of Ragnarok entirely because it wasn’t allowed to open in Russia or China. Wakanda Forever has no clear protagonist and is an ensemble film about grief. With that in mind it’s showing very strong legs with a very small third week drop. Star Wars has two critically and popularly acclaimed ongoing series, one with a huge cultural footprint, one in serious discussions as the best television program of the year. The franchise hasn’t had media this well received since 1983.

All entertainment ever made “pushes an agenda.” We’re just in an incredibly stupid phase of the culture war in which certain people are trying very hard to be offended.

I imagine a big part of Love and Thunder outperforming Ragnarok is because of how awesome Ragnarok was.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Love and Thunder outperformed Ragnarok domestically and in every international market in which it was allowed to open. It’s total box office fell short of Ragnarok entirely because it wasn’t allowed to open in Russia or China. Wakanda Forever has no clear protagonist and is an ensemble film about grief. With that in mind it’s showing very strong legs with a very small third week drop. Star Wars has two critically and popularly acclaimed ongoing series, one with a huge cultural footprint, one in serious discussions as the best television program of the year. The franchise hasn’t had media this well received since 1983.

All entertainment ever made “pushes an agenda.” We’re just in an incredibly stupid phase of the culture war in which certain people are trying very hard to be offended.

…woah…your arms tired yet?

 

[Casper Gutman]

I’m really shocked by how many people don’t see movies as communal activities. Watching a film in a packed theater can be an immensely richer experience then watching one alone. Seeing Endgame with a full house, with the cheers, sobs, and laughter, is a completely different experience then viewing it alone, no matter the resolution of the screen. I genuinely regret not being able to watch No Way Home with a packed theater. Comedies in particular work so much better with a bunch of other folks laughing along.

It’s subjective, of course, but I don’t think I’m alone in feeling that shared moviegoing matters. I mean, it’s been the way we’ve viewed films for well over a century. It’s survived previous plagues, wars, suburbanization, the rise of TVs and VCRs… filmgoing has value as a shared experience.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I imagine a big part of Love and Thunder outperforming Ragnarok is because of how awesome Ragnarok was.

Not uncommon for bad sequels to better movies to outperform…it’s been going on since at least 1983…by my count?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m really shocked by how many people don’t see movies as communal activities. Watching a film in a packed theater can be an immensely richer experience then watching one alone. Seeing Endgame with a full house, with the cheers, sobs, and laughter, is a completely different experience then viewing it alone, no matter the resolution of the screen. I genuinely regret not being able to watch No Way Home with a packed theater. Comedies in particular work so much better with a bunch of other folks laughing along.

It’s subjective, of course, but I don’t think I’m alone in feeling that shared moviegoing matters. I mean, it’s been the way we’ve viewed films for well over a century. It’s survived previous plagues, wars, suburbanization, the rise of TVs and VCRs… filmgoing has value as a shared experience.

I’m with you here…

The cap and thor entrances in infinity war are as memorable as anything else…cause of the fan reaction.

Thought the same when they say “that piece of junk?” In the farce awakens too at that moment…
…but they didn’t exactly stick the landing.

 

[SuddenStorm]

I’m really shocked by how many people don’t see movies as communal activities. Watching a film in a packed theater can be an immensely richer experience then watching one alone. Seeing Endgame with a full house, with the cheers, sobs, and laughter, is a completely different experience then viewing it alone, no matter the resolution of the screen. I genuinely regret not being able to watch No Way Home with a packed theater. Comedies in particular work so much better with a bunch of other folks laughing along.

It’s subjective, of course, but I don’t think I’m alone in feeling that shared moviegoing matters. I mean, it’s been the way we’ve viewed films for well over a century. It’s survived previous plagues, wars, suburbanization, the rise of TVs and VCRs… filmgoing has value as a shared experience.

Yes, though I do wish there was a greater effort to limit cell phone usage and conversations, which significantly detract from the experience.

 

[_caleb]

You seem to have resorted to the equivalent of "Ok, boomer" even when presented with rather detailed responses and questions.

Hmm. I thought I was engaging with detailed responses and questions.

Even this seems deliberately and obnoxiously obtuse.

Just trying to discuss. Sorry to be obnoxious.

 

[hopemax]

It's weird that people are obsessed with theaters but not other events. Nobody is claiming that Spotify is killing Taylor Swift's ability to sell concert tickets. Nobody is claiming that Peacock is killing WWE's ability to sell wrestling tickets. Nobody is claiming that ESPN is killing the NFL's ability to sell football tickets. But Disney+ is killing theaters. I don't get it.

I am behind on this thread, but there was a period following the financial crisis that continued for several years, with lots of hand-wringing that the improved in-home experience killed stadium attendance for the NFL. At home, you can watch Red Zone and if you prefer to watch one game, all the different camera angles, closeups and replays makes it easier to follow. And there are the costs for everything tickets, parking, beer, food that you don't have to deal with. Stadium capacities were lowered to compensate. Like WDW and converting Deluxe rooms to DVC, NFL teams built and renovated stadiums with more luxury boxes, instead of squeezing as many individual seats in. In 2012, the NFL also changed the local blockout rules so games could be broadcast when they weren't sold out. Teams could set the level as low as 85% instead of 100% for all teams. Only 4 teams follow the old rules. Here's a 2012 article and a 2010 article that touched on it. As far as the NFL is concerned, we're already in the "post" reality.

 

[hopemax]

I've caught up now. 2 questions I have about in-home vs theater experiences.

Do people expect to take first / second dates back to their place to show them their fabulous in-home setup?

Where do you take your kids and/or visiting family members when your spouse is at their wits end and informs you that you need to get these terrors out of their sight Right.NOW so they can get stuff done and/or sleep?

 

[kingdead]

I’m really shocked by how many people don’t see movies as communal activities. Watching a film in a packed theater can be an immensely richer experience then watching one alone. Seeing Endgame with a full house, with the cheers, sobs, and laughter, is a completely different experience then viewing it alone, no matter the resolution of the screen. I genuinely regret not being able to watch No Way Home with a packed theater. Comedies in particular work so much better with a bunch of other folks laughing along.

It’s subjective, of course, but I don’t think I’m alone in feeling that shared moviegoing matters. I mean, it’s been the way we’ve viewed films for well over a century. It’s survived previous plagues, wars, suburbanization, the rise of TVs and VCRs… filmgoing has value as a shared experience.

This is true in general. However, are people getting enough of an communal experience from Disney animation? From Pixar? At this point, from Marvel?

 

[erasure fan1]

But on the other hand, it's dangerous to bet against James Cameron. It's a wishy washy statement to make I know, but I really wouldn't be surprised with either the movie underperforming or outperforming expectations.

That's where I'm at as well. I could see this movie do ok with doctor strange 2 type numbers. And that would be a significant underperformance. I could also see it do around 2 billion. It's really a tough call. There's a lot of anti Disney movies sentiment out there right now. And avatar doesn't have the following of the MCU so could that hold it back? Maybe. At the same time, I can see people flocking to the theater to see what the fuss is about this movie that has to make 2 billion dollars to break even.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I've caught up now. 2 questions I have about in-home vs theater experiences.

Do people expect to take first / second dates back to their place to show them their fabulous in-home setup?

Where do you take your kids and/or visiting family members when your spouse is at their wits end and informs you that you need to get these terrors out of their sight Right.NOW so they can get stuff done and/or sleep?

There’s definitely a market for theaters, the idea that streaming and theaters cant coexist is odd. I mentioned the movie executives fear of TV earlier and I think this is the same, TV flourished and it didn’t kill the theaters, streaming can also flourish without killing theaters, I think the studios just need to find a medium between encouraging subscriptions and encouraging people to see movies in the theater first.

I also find it odd people like the communal aspect of theaters, I wonder if this is an introvert / extrovert thing? When I go to the theater it’s nearly always a matinee and/or midweek to avoid the crowds. I hate being in a theater surrounded by talking people, it makes it impossible to enjoy the movie.

 

[ohioguy]

McKinsey being brought in would have set off alarm bells on Wall Street. They are destroyers. No wonder they kept them hidden.

 

[esskay]

Disney's (and largely most streaming providers) followed Netflix and went for releasing movies direct to streaming. Really this is whats screwed them over as people now expect it. Had they gone in with the decision to release movies only to theaters, with a 1 year gap to it going to streaming it may have helped a bit. Heck you could even let people rent the movie ~3-6 months on your platform after its been at the theater. I know Disney have done this to an extent but they pushed content to streaming far too soon after theatrical release.

Will some people just go "oh I'll wait for it to come out on Disney+"? Sure, but thats the same group of people that would happily wait for it to pop up on TV a year or two down the line and watch it then.

I think the streaming service can work great. Keep all the TV shows as streaming-only releases, throw in an 'early access' option for people willing to pay for your most expensive plan and you've pleased everyone whilst increasing the bottom line. If they want to draw more people into the service then do what Apple has done and make the first episode or two of a series free to watch. Stick them up on YouTube if you really want maximum exposure. There's nothing more likely to bring people in than getting them hooked on a show before they've paid for the service.

That and staggering releases. The 'release all at once' model worked for Netflix as they had massive growth and people had so much content to get through that they weren't subscribing for a month, watching everything and then leaving. Disney+ has obviously helped themselves here by doing weekly episode releases but once a show ends you've then got very little to replace it with for several months whilst you wait for something of a similar genre to come out.

Rambling a bit now, but another problem with D+ is that if you arent wanting to consume Marvel or Star Wars based shows theres not a huge amount to keep you around for very long. They either need some new franchises, or an extremely popular show that isn't part of the two main properties. Think Game of Thrones or Doctor Who level of draw.

I've got a close friend that freelances for Disney and Lucas and they've been going through production hell for the last 6 months as nobody could make a decision on what they were going to greenlight. They've been moved between shows about 4 times now as some have been canned or delayed, even now they're temping on an existing D+ show waiting for someone to figure out what the hell they're going to be shooting next. It's all a bit of a mess.

I know they're betting quite heavily on Avatar picking back up but it's a total mystery to everyone (including them) as to how the franchise will be recieved given its been so long now.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Disney's (and largely most streaming providers) followed Netflix and went for releasing movies direct to streaming.

Disney didn't "follow Netflix," they did the only think they could have done IN A PANDEMIC when theaters were literally closed.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am behind on this thread, but there was a period following the financial crisis that continued for several years, with lots of hand-wringing that the improved in-home experience killed stadium attendance for the NFL. At home, you can watch Red Zone and if you prefer to watch one game, all the different camera angles, closeups and replays makes it easier to follow. And there are the costs for everything tickets, parking, beer, food that you don't have to deal with. Stadium capacities were lowered to compensate. Like WDW and converting Deluxe rooms to DVC, NFL teams built and renovated stadiums with more luxury boxes, instead of squeezing as many individual seats in. In 2012, the NFL also changed the local blockout rules so games could be broadcast when they weren't sold out. Teams could set the level as low as 85% instead of 100% for all teams. Only 4 teams follow the old rules. Here's a 2012 article and a 2010 article that touched on it. As far as the NFL is concerned, we're already in the "post" reality.

The nfl also had something else happen that insulated them to even care about attendance.

I've caught up now. 2 questions I have about in-home vs theater experiences.

Do people expect to take first / second dates back to their place to show them their fabulous in-home setup?

Where do you take your kids and/or visiting family members when your spouse is at their wits end and informs you that you need to get these terrors out of their sight Right.NOW so they can get stuff done and/or sleep?

The cultural anthropology type experts have identified that the dating paradigm has all but collapsed in the last few years due to tech flood. So “dating” as it was isn’t much of a concern