Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I get this a bit and it is a concern. The canceled theater comes to mind. MSUSA was better than a stand alone in Frontierland though.

I do wish there was a strong advisory committee that had the task of the long term integrity of the parks. Eisner didn't seem worried about it and they are still scrambling to rectify those mistakes.

TDO is not doing a bad job IMO. But not sure what happens after Iger leaves.

Iger is making the continuity/longterm appeal integrity mistakes.

I see this all the time “what do you Expect bob to do after Eisner screwed up?”

...it’s been 16 years...time to find a new/correct goat.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

While I agree with the larger sentiment, it's worth pointing out that, if not for the Fox acquisition, P&R would become the largest segment in the business by revenue if the current growth trend continues . Other than media networks (which is currently a bit higher), nothing else comes close.

I understand your point was more philosophical. Just thought I'd point that out.

And there’s the problem...If you want to maintain quality - the “Disney brand” - then P&R can’t be the biggest. That puts it in an unsustainable financial position because daily gains are insisted in the modern paper machete economy.

It’s about gambling...not stability. I will forever be mentally tied to parks and resorts...it’s symbiotic in my mind.

She can’t handle that if you want her to be your baby.

 

[bcoachable]

What keeps disney from just making GE a separate additional hard ticket from the rest of hollywood studios... every day
All day

 

[mikejs78]

And there’s the problem...If you want to maintain quality - the “Disney brand” - then P&R can’t be the biggest. That puts it in an unsustainable financial position because daily gains are insisted in the modern paper machete economy.

It’s about gambling...not stability. I will forever be mentally tied to parks and resorts...it’s symbiotic in my mind.

She can’t handle that if you want her to be your baby.

Wasn't P&R the biggest money maker when Epcot was built? Nothing else was making any money....

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Some of the super fans who are waiting six hours in line may need a refresher on what a Jedi is.

Just don’t look for anybody working in the Presidio to provide a refresher...they don’t seem to have the foggiest clue on the jedi mythos.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What keeps disney from just making GE a separate additional hard ticket from the rest of hollywood studios... every day
All day

Nothing other than studios is a hole without it...but the people have to call a spade a shovel

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wasn't P&R the biggest money maker when Epcot was built? Nothing else was making any money....

The walt disney company wasn’t locked in a nanosecond by nanosecond global stock cycle then...different Game on a different pitch.

Their business was also locked almost exclusivity to a middle class, NATO clientele. Ironically - like lucasfilm - that made the goal posts much more defined and you needed a simple kick to hit them.

 

[Mouse Trap]

And there’s the problem...If you want to maintain quality - the “Disney brand” - then P&R can’t be the biggest. That puts it in an unsustainable financial position because daily gains are insisted in the modern paper machete economy.

It’s about gambling...not stability. I will forever be mentally tied to parks and resorts...it’s symbiotic in my mind.

She can’t handle that if you want her to be your baby.

Companies cannot easily dictate which of their business segments will be more successful or grow faster than others. See Amazon and AWS for an example.

There are SO many factors that have led P&R to ballon in size compared to other segments. Disney can't control the emergence of new technology, competition, distribution channels, cinema ticket prices, production costs and media consumption like they can control theme park ticket prices, room prices, drink prices, etc...

 

[MisterPenguin]

What keeps disney from just making GE a separate additional hard ticket from the rest of hollywood studios... every day
All day

Nothing. The fact there there is currently a DHS After Dark hard-ticket would be indicative of where this is heading.

WDW seems to have learned their crowd control lessons in giving...

• DVCer and APers special times for a new attraction, thus keeping them out of the mix of the huge crowds
• resort guests extended EMHs daily to keep them out of the mix of the huge crowds
• those with big bucks hard-ticket after hours to keep them out of the mix of the huge crowds (because, after all, if they have big bucks, they'll probably complain the loudest of being in the mix with a big crowd )

That's all supposition on my part based on WDW's history.

The big question is whether WDW will sell early access. They've never done that before. And DL only did that for a one-night previews. There is no real history of WDW selling early access, though, everyone thinks it's now standard despite lack of evidence for it. WDW sells access *after* it opens and during after hours.

Now, if you gather 10 people for a VIP Tour for 7 hours, each would only have to pay a few hundred bucks and they'd be able to ride all of DHS's E-Tickets (of which, DHS will have a surprisingly high number) over and over and over again.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Companies cannot easily dictate which of their business segments will be more successful or grow faster than others. See Amazon and AWS for an example.

There are SO many factors that have led P&R to ballon in size compared to other segments. Disney can't control the emergence of new technology, competition, distribution channels, cinema ticket prices, production costs and media consumption like they can control theme park ticket prices, room prices, drink prices, etc...

I’m not debating Econ theory...i’m Saying as Disney fans, we don’t Want p&r to be the prime revenue workhorse. They can’t and won’t be able to maintain the quality...there isn’t enough money in the banks to support the prices they will be insisted on charging.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I’m not debating Econ theory...i’m Saying as Disney fans, we don’t Want p&r to be the prime revenue workhorse. They can’t and won’t be able to maintain the quality...there isn’t enough money in the banks to support the prices they will be insisted on charging.

It's not going to matter. Starting in fiscal 2020, analysts aren't going to care very much about total revenue or earnings per share. It's all about Disney+ and Hulu subscriber counts. Even if Parks is the largest line item in revenue and earnings, revenue and earnings aren't going to be what move the needle on share price (see Amazon, Netflix).

 

[mikejs78]

It's not going to matter. Starting in fiscal 2020, analysts aren't going to care very much about total revenue or earnings per share. It's all about Disney+ and Hulu subscriber counts. Even if Parks is the largest line item in revenue and earnings, revenue and earnings aren't going to be what move the needle on share price (see Amazon, Netflix).

And that actually may be a good thing for the rest of the company, including P&R.

 

[mikejs78]

Slightly off-topic, but related in the sense that it relates to Epcot's past and future...

So over the last couple of days I watched @marni1971's Ultimate Imagination tribute trilogy (I highly recommend it- so well done, as are all of Martin's videos). Some observations:

• Journey Into Your Imagination was just awful. Having never seen it, I didn't realize how bad it was. It makes the current attraction seem downright brilliant.
• The current attraction isn't horrible. It can't hold a candle to the original - but honestly if they removed the skunk smell, it would be decent. The skunk smell, I think, takes it down a notch. Why on earth did Imagineer's of that time think awful smells were a good thing on a ride (between this and Stitch)..
• Seeing the final part of Martin's third video, with the juxtaposition of the current version with the original version makes me realize even more just how special (and frankly timeless) of an attraction we lost. I honestly think that the original attraction could have been kept as is, with maybe a little plussing over time in the way of effects, and would still be relevant and popular today. I don't know what they were thinking with the redo.
• I hope any future iteration of Imagination at least tries to capture the spirit of the original attraction. I know the original returning is a virtual impossibility given what they did to the track over time, but at least something with the same sense of whimsy, curiosity, and wonder, and of course, Figment and hopefully Dreamfinder...and no skunk smell.... Given the current direction of the park though... I do wonder if there are any proposals even on the table that approach the original spirit in any meaningful way.

 

[tparris]

Okay, I know it's stupid to get emotional over a theme park, but I'd like to share my story too, in remembrance of Epcot. This is going to be a VERY long post, so just keep scrolling if you don't want to read it all

My first visit to this park came in 2007, and I remember next to nothing about it. The ONLY memory I have was going into The Seas, which I believe was still hybrid Nemo/TLS at the time (this was very early into 2007). I forgot about the park and went on with my life, until 2012. This time, my class at school had a field trip scheduled to Epcot. I brought home my permission slip, and my mom was overjoyed to go with me. She bought our tickets, and we went. However, it wasn't the park she knew. I vividly remember this trip, but what I didn't remember is my mom's disgust that she tried to hold in so that I could have my joy. She later told me how much she missed Horizons, although I loved Mission: Space, how confused she was to walk into Wonders with nothing in there anymore, how she missed those Radok screens when we did Ellen, how thrilled she was that I was too short for TT 1.0 (She didn't like it, and was also still upset over the closure of WoM), and above all what really stuck with me was how disgusted she was at Journey. She specifically told me that she remembered how magical it was, and that it was replaced with a toilet on the ceiling. My School left the park at 6 PM, and my mom had been warning me for months that we probably wouldn't stay as long as my school. We stayed and watched Illuminations. It was a magical moment. At the end of the night, I was able to pick one souvenir, and I should've known then that it was a sign of things to come. I walked out of that park with a Figment plushie, and as a happy kiddo. Flash forward to early 2016, and the most unlikely thing draws me back to Disney. I'm scrolling through my YouTube feed and all of the sudden some Urbex videos pop up. I remember specifically ATW's Nick Studios video, and I was so surprised that big companies would leave major pieces of their history to rot. I became highly interested in it. I talked with my mom for hours about how it peaked my interest, and she started spouting names of old attractions that are gone, none of which I knew anything about. I heard "Delta Dreamflight", "Horizons", "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride", and more come out of her mouth. I went to sleep, and arose the next day with it still fresh on my mind. My mom told me to pull up a POV of Horizons that morning, and I did. All of the sudden a slew of memories came flooding back to her, and I was stunned by how absolutely magical it looked, even in the 1998 Hi-8 Camcorder quality. We stumbled upon Martin's original tribute, and watched the whole thing. I was captivated. I went on to do my own research, and became absolutely amazed at the park's history. I began to love Epcot, despite not being there for nearly half a decade. I discovered Wonders, Spaceship Earth, World of Motion, Imagination, and the list goes on and on and on. I binge watched all of Martin's tributes, and became a self-acclaimed expert on it. My mom could see it was my new passion, and it just so happened to be one of her former passions. We went to DisneyQuest later that year, and my mom drove me into the Epcot parking entrance, telling the people that she "made a wrong turn" just so I could see Spaceship Earth. A month later we bought an AP, and the history I've read about and seen and have been stuffing my brain with for half a year came to life. I saw Wonders, I rode Energy, I saw the old Horizons planter, I saw TT and recognized the structure of WoM, I rode SSE and pointed out all the remnants, etc. It was magical. I was sparked and inspired by the place, just by seeing the history of the park come to life. Mind you, I was 12 at the time. Sooner or later though, I noticed that Epcot and EPCOT Center are two completely different things, the latter of which was already erased. So I was saddened and hopeful that we could see it return in some form. I was dead wrong. I enjoyed the remnants that were there, but all of the sudden they were disappearing. Innoventions West closed, then Innoventions East. All of the sudden my park was being taken from me. D23 Expo 2017 introduced me to Bob Chapek, and the new Epcot overhaul. I was thrilled! He was going to return the park to it's original vision and fix everything! Then Ellen's Energy Adventure was gone, and so was my Capcom, my last enjoyment factor of Mission: Space. Then SSE lost it's sponsor, and everything started to go downhill. I wondered why he wasn't doing anything to the abandoned buildings, and what GotG had to do with Epcot at all. Then it hit me, that he was lying. I was kinda heartbroken, and then took a minute to realize that my happy place was now a graveyard. This Destination D has finally done it in for me. Once SSE goes down, I don't plan on going back any time soon. I'm sorry Epcot, but you really did make and break me. Epcot gave me a passion for architecture, it inspired me for the future. It meant a ton to me. Here I am today, at 14, STILL A KID, THE TARGET AUDIENCE CHAPEK IS GOING FOR, and I see it becoming Magic Kingdom two. I'm so sorry, but this park was ripped away from me and it just isn't fair. Sorry if this derailed anything, because like eight posts got made in the amount of time it took me to type this. Thanks for listening folks...


(Oh, and before anyone says anything, I'm not 36. I put in 10/1/82 as my birth date because I'm a nerd. Watch me get banned from WDWMagic now over it)

Thank you for writing this, it really hit home. I never knew much about Epcot, or WDW in general, until I was about 12 or 13. Then I started seeing Martin’s tributes and being in absolute awe at EPCOT Center, and everything it represented. 2015, when I was 13, we got an AP and started going to the Parks several times a year. I remember just how much more I appreciated and noticed so many details starting that year, because of all the research I had done and videos I had watched. It’s funny because my family couldn’t be less interested then they are about this stuff. It kinda sucked because nobody I knew had any idea what I was talking about when I talked about Epcot. Then around June 2017 I discovered wdwmagic. For over a year I constantly browsed all the threads with much interest. Then, finally this past September, I created an account, and I really do feel at home here. ThatDreamfinderGuy, it’s really cool knowing there’s another young person with as much interest in Epcot as me. It kinda gives me hope that maybe, people like us can try to make a change in the right direction. Since I was like 13, I’ve dreamed about becoming and Imagineer someday. If that ever happens, I’d like to suggest some big changes to Epcot, and not the changes Bob Chapek wants. I’m almost 17 now, and in a little over a year I’ll be going to college, hopefully in Central Florida to start my Disney career. To the future.

 

[Rodan75]

Slightly off-topic, but related in the sense that it relates to Epcot's past and future...

So over the last couple of days I watched @marni1971's Ultimate Imagination tribute trilogy (I highly recommend it- so well done, as are all of Martin's videos). Some observations:

• Journey Into Your Imagination was just awful. Having never seen it, I didn't realize how bad it was. It makes the current attraction seem downright brilliant.
• The current attraction isn't horrible. It can't hold a candle to the original - but honestly if they removed the skunk smell, it would be decent. The skunk smell, I think, takes it down a notch. Why on earth did Imagineer's of that time think awful smells were a good thing on a ride (between this and Stitch)..
• Seeing the final part of Martin's third video, with the juxtaposition of the current version with the original version makes me realize even more just how special (and frankly timeless) of an attraction we lost. I honestly think that the original attraction could have been kept as is, with maybe a little plussing over time in the way of effects, and would still be relevant and popular today. I don't know what they were thinking with the redo.
• I hope any future iteration of Imagination at least tries to capture the spirit of the original attraction. I know the original returning is a virtual impossibility given what they did to the track over time, but at least something with the same sense of whimsy, curiosity, and wonder, and of course, Figment and hopefully Dreamfinder...and no skunk smell.... Given the current direction of the park though... I do wonder if there are any proposals even on the table that approach the original spirit in any meaningful way.

It was such a mistake to touch it at all. I know there is convoluted history for why the original was changed. But they killed the pavillion with their meddling. It would have been better to have 'Horizon'd it'

 

[trainplane3]

Slightly off-topic, but related in the sense that it relates to Epcot's past and future...

So over the last couple of days I watched @marni1971's Ultimate Imagination tribute trilogy (I highly recommend it- so well done, as are all of Martin's videos). Some observations:

• Journey Into Your Imagination was just awful. Having never seen it, I didn't realize how bad it was. It makes the current attraction seem downright brilliant.
• The current attraction isn't horrible. It can't hold a candle to the original - but honestly if they removed the skunk smell, it would be decent. The skunk smell, I think, takes it down a notch. Why on earth did Imagineer's of that time think awful smells were a good thing on a ride (between this and Stitch)..
• Seeing the final part of Martin's third video, with the juxtaposition of the current version with the original version makes me realize even more just how special (and frankly timeless) of an attraction we lost. I honestly think that the original attraction could have been kept as is, with maybe a little plussing over time in the way of effects, and would still be relevant and popular today. I don't know what they were thinking with the redo.
• I hope any future iteration of Imagination at least tries to capture the spirit of the original attraction. I know the original returning is a virtual impossibility given what they did to the track over time, but at least something with the same sense of whimsy, curiosity, and wonder, and of course, Figment and hopefully Dreamfinder...and no skunk smell.... Given the current direction of the park though... I do wonder if there are any proposals even on the table that approach the original spirit in any meaningful way.

- Just imagine waiting in line for a half hour to witness JIYI. Man what kind of idiot would do tha- oh wait...I did.
- And make the sets less fun-housey. And give Figment a good personality. Or just give the ride some actual imagination.
- Just think if they had todays tech to make the turntable work smoothly too. The motors are in still place but unless they want to spend big $$, it's not coming back.
- The track is simply covered over and removed in a few spots now. And honestly, the track is the least of concern. And as much as he likes to play off how he was a background character to Figment, he was very important to the ride in its entirety.

And something I found a couple weeks ago. A poorly focused picture of the original from my first ride and visit to WDW. This single blurry picture has more imagination and enjoyment then the current one does:

 

[mikejs78]

I know there is convoluted history for why the original was changed.

What was this history? Was it just the technical difficulties? Or was there more to it?

 

[trainplane3]

What was this history? Was it just the technical difficulties? Or was there more to it?

Reliability (turntable), Kodak slowly dying and killing the budget for a refurb, Epcot wanting to push for a "edgier" take on the future, Eisner not liking the dragon (rumored), etc.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Oh, I'd rank the current version of Imagination as awful.

 

[mikejs78]

Oh, I'd rank the current version of Imagination as awful.

Compared to the middle one, no way. Compared to the original? Yep.