ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Of course the fact that Space Mountain is now little more than a collection of scrap metal barely hanging together it may actually be cheaper to build a new Space Mountain in EPCOT than rebuilding the one in MK.
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Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot
- Thread starter Bacon
- Start date
Of course the fact that Space Mountain is now little more than a collection of scrap metal barely hanging together it may actually be cheaper to build a new Space Mountain in EPCOT than rebuilding the one in MK.
Oh, that's a "fact"? It would seem that if it was that bad they would have closed it a long time ago.
Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
cough cough.. disneyland's space mountain..
Part. As applied to a planned community. Not applied to a theme park as the corporate committee came up with.
Those hankering to make Epcot pure again need to remember that the evil corporation that is moving Epcot in a new direction is the same evil corporation which created Epcot The Theme Park to begin with.
If people want an edutainment park, then they should say so. There's nothing wrong with that.
When they make it all about the purity of what was supposed to be as envisioned by some idealized form of 'Disney' as some do when referring to "what would Walt do", they need to remember it wasn't Walt's plan, but the plan of a corporate committee thinking they could make better money this way (World's Fair Park) than Walt's way (Planned Community).
Disney Corp. tried a World's Fair Park and it's still popular, but, showing its age and taking on water. They either double down on the World's Fair theme or go in a new direction. I don't know enough to be critical over whether or not they could have made the World's Fair theme continue to work and still be profitable. I know that the pavilions of progress (Future World) are half way to disaster.
So, save it, or do something to revitalize it with a different theme? They hadn't been that successful in their attempts to save it.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Not even close.. just because you inherit something doesn't mean you did it yourself or can replicate it. I would say they share the same name... but they don't even share that
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
EPCOT Center, though not Walt's vision of EPCOT the city was still a lofty, forward thinking, daring experiment. The attractions and pavilions were original creations, They dared to dream and inspre versus the current regime's ideal of regurgitate popular ips and lower everyone's IQ. The current WDC I don't think could even begin to recreate what EPCOT was and strove to be.
JohnD
Well-Known Member
Sigh. . .
EPCOTCenterLover
Well-Known Member
^^^ Bocabear, your recent post is the clearest and most true one on this thread! Cannot like it enough!
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Phil Holmes cancelled the COMPLETE rebuild of WDW's Space Mountain, If you are there when the lights are on you can still see the markup for the demolition of the track, I believe @marni1971 has pictures, Those big blue trailers that say 'Miller' on them with the cables leading into the structure are welding power supplies as there is welding almost daily to repair the track.
What actually happened was the unrepairable sections of track were replaced during the so-called refurb, The recent installation of trim brakes were intended to reduce the load on the SM track structure.
At some point the structural engineers are going to say 'SM is no longer safe it must be closed' I imagine TDO will fire a few who don't toe the company line. Since PE's are personally responsible for failures in the structures they certify I'm pretty sure they will put their license first and TWDC's interest second.
I really hope that Chapek does not allow people to killed as Pressler at DL did by ignoring the engineers warnings that structures had become unsafe to operate.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
The point that many are trying to make but are unable to penetrate the wall of desired wishes is that the general public does not now, and hasn't for a while now, agreed with or whole-heartedly supported the original concept. It was a very different world back in the early 80's. Demands have changed and Disney has to change with it. I'm not saying that they have been able to completely do that yet, even with a lot in place already, but, at some point wishful thinking has got to give way to reality. It prevents a lot of frustration over things we individually cannot control.
Then make an Epcot suitable for today. Not a poor mans MK.
Simple.
Something as equally radical, cutting edge, cohesive and state of the art as the park was in 1982 but suitable for today's demographic.
Understood, but rebuilding the track and a few other areas will still be far less expensive than rebuilding the whole thing and/or moving the whole thing. Demolition and disposal alone would probably cost over $10 million. Tearing out old track and putting in new track wouldn't be cheap, but it would be minor in comparison to a start from scratch rebuild. Plus, SM is Tomorrowland's headliner, the thrill on the east side of the park. Taking it away would be very disappointing to many guests who would wonder why it's being moved or scrapped or whatever. Guest-expectation-wise, this would be very bad. Theme-wise, it also ties in beautifully as a counterpoint to the castle, and as a bridge of sorts to the Contemporary and Bay Lake Tower.
Overall, dumping or moving a huge attraction makes zero business sense when one considers the millions of dollars involved compared to the modest upside, if any.
Before we start the cause of sainthood for the corporate committee that created the original Epcot World's Fair Theme Park (and they did do a lot of good things), we also need to remember that this is the same group that allowed the park to become beholden to corporate sponsorships which affected what they would or could do (and created giant commercials within the park). This is also the group that allowed forward thinking pavilions become stale without the constant updates it needed.
As mentioned above, keeping things 'cutting edge' is difficult and requires constant updating... something that the original Epcot failed to do. Decades ago I found Innoventions to be laughably outdated.
There are plenty of attractions with 'out of date' technology, but, since they're entertaining, withstand the test of time. Innoventions went with things which were arguably cutting edge at the time it was installed, but, hardly entertaining since it was so clunkily implemented. Plus, many of those displays had a terrible throughput as you waited with 40 people to try out 5 cutting edge devices.
To re-create the original ideal of Future World, you need something that can be relatively easily updated and entertaining and has a high throughput of guests... like a planetarium. Otherwise, if you're going to show up the cutting edge of VR equipment, e.g., you better have 400 stations and not just a dozen.
Not at all. 35 years later and the travelling theatre is still cutting edge. When it works.
It's the easily updatable content that's lacking.
For example.
Spider-Man is still cutting edge. Nearly 20 years later.
montyz81
Well-Known Member
Doesn't Xbox provide that kind of technology already. It could be programmed to focus on head movements specifically. That could be the key part to getting rid of a headset and accelerometer.
csmat99
Well-Known Member
Like I said before when we spoke about this it makes me happy that epcot will finally get some love. My biggest concern for the 50th and with everything Disney has done in last decade with up sells and have ticketed events, I can see when the 50th happens we are talking about a ton of exclusive events that will shut out the park to regular people. 10/1/2021 will probably be an all day ticketed event with price tag of $299 per person but you do get a free cookie and sticker.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Steel in this application has a lifespan - it is not perpetual. You can't simply 'keep repairing it' for ever. It literally fatigues from the stress cycles leading to cracks, and failures. You can only repair cracks and sections for so long before you end up with a piece of swiss cheese of welds and pieces.. which isn't as strong as the original and becomes its own risk.
The idea of 'rebuild' or not is a not a choice - it HAS to happen.. Disney just kicked the can down further down the road gambling that they can keep ahead of things stretching out the current service life.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Very nice dream, Martin, but, that would pretty much require a shut down, tear down and rebuild to something that people like you and, even to some extent, people like me would still compare to the "old days". If people were willing to give it a chance and not just be able to see what isn't there anymore, it might be a fun thing. But, as far as the old school is concerned unless they rebuild Horizons, put World of Motion back in place, reestablish Imagination as it was, and, of course put Wonders of life back it will not be accepted. And, also, no IP's even though that is what is drawing the crowd in today. Why does everyone want Epcot to be the first Disney Theme Park to fold it's tent. It is gradually changing because that is the only way it is even partially acceptable to some. And they sure as hell are not going to start from scratch with the property, when they don't need to. They are choosing to tick off a few, to draw in the many. That may change over time, but, it isn't the case right now.
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Not at all. This park has so much potential with so little relative outlay.
One day when I've more time I'll go into more detail.
I'm talking of a modern equivalent of Epcot 1982. But one today's audience would understand.
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Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Looking forward to it Marni. If anyone has any idea how to save it... it would be you.