Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Oh, that clears things up. :rolleyes:
It does actually.

What about Frozen Ever After celebrates any part of Norwegian culture?

Comparatively, Ratatouille celebrates French cuisine as a main plot driver. Similarly, Coco is about Dia de los Muertos which is already represented in Gran Fiesta Tour.

Frozen Ever After in Norway is comparable to the Mine Train in the Germany Pavilion. They fit geographically (if you're tying real-ish world to fantasy world) but other than setting there's no real connection.

Any other contributions you'd like to make?
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
It does actually.

What about Frozen Ever After celebrates any part of Norwegian culture?

Comparatively, Ratatouille celebrates French cuisine as a main plot driver. Similarly, Coco is about Dia de los Muertos which is already represented in Gran Fiesta Tour.

Frozen Ever After in Norway is comparable to the Mine Train in the Germany Pavilion. They fit geographically (if you're tying real-ish world to fantasy world) but other than setting there's no real connection.

Any other contributions you'd like to make?

No, it's just your opinion.

Already provided Norwegian references.

Ratatouille celebrates a fake French chef.

You sound so silly splitting hairs between which cartoon is more real.

World showcase isn't real. It's not a replication. It's a representation - with plenty of artistic license taken.

Frozen is as realistic as Maelstrom was. Trolls here, trolls there. Trolls don't exist except on message boards.

Any other side projects you'd like to promote?

YankeesNo1. 4ever.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
Scandinavian and Sámi inspirationEdit
The setting was principally based on Norway, and the cultural influences in the film come from Scandinavian culture.[100] Several landmarks in Norway appear in the film, including the Akershus Fortress in Oslo, the Nidaros Cathedral in Trondheim, and Bryggen in Bergen. Numerous other typical cultural Scandinavian elements are also included in the film, such as stave churches,[100] trolls,[18]:6Viking ships, a hot spring, Fjord horses,[101]clothes,[80] and food such as lutefisk.[18]:43[102] A maypole is also present in the film, as well as the brief appearance of runes in a book that Anna and Elsa's father opens to figure out where the trolls live.[18]:6 A scene where two men argue over whether to stack firewood bark up or bark down is a reference to the perennial Norwegian debate over how to stack firewood properly.[18]:59[103] The film also contains several elements specifically drawn from Sámi culture, such as the usage of reindeer for transportation and the equipment used to control these, clothing styles (the outfits of the ice cutters), and parts of the musical score.[104][105]Decorations, such as those on the castle pillars and Kristoff's sled, are also in styles inspired by Sámi duodji decorations. During their field work in Norway, Disney's team, for inspiration, visited Rørosrein, a Sámi family-owned company in the village Plassje that produces reindeer meat and arranges tourist events.[106] Arendelle was inspired by Nærøyfjord, a branch of Norway's longest fjord Sognefjorden, which has been listed as a UNESCO World Heritage Site;[107]while a castle in Oslo with beautiful hand-painted patterns on all four walls served as the inspiration for the kingdom's royal castle interior.[108]

The filmmakers' trip to Norway provided essential knowledge for the animators to come up with the design aesthetic for the film in terms of color, light, and atmosphere. According to Giaimo, there were three important factors that they had acquired from the Norway research trip: the fjords, which are the massive vertical rock formations, and serve as the setting for the secluded kingdom of Arendelle; the medieval stave churches, whose rustic triangular rooflines and shingles inspired the castle compound; and the rosemaling folk art, whose distinctive paneling and grid patterns informed the architecture, decor, and costumes.[86]
The Disney team also visited Idaho and Canada for inspiration and to study the elements, (its true). So by your logic, FEA could easily go into Canada or America pavilions.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
World showcase isn't real. It's not a replication. It's a representation -
You claim that basic Norwegian references validate the completely fictional world of Frozen fitting properly in World Showcase, but then you highlight that WS is also a representation. Are you saying that WS pavilions are representations of fictional worlds with loose ties to reality via architecture?
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
Bad point, not well made.
Is that not an opinion? I recall you dismissing opinions yesterday (your reply to @RSoxNo1, post #627).
Clearly their primary focus was Norway.
Elsas ice castle , which was one of the most prominent settings of the movie was inspired by some ice hotel in Canada, not Norway. How does Norwegian inspired rooftops and clothing trump that? My point was that if you choose to use locations visited by the Disney team, be sure to list them all, not just the ones that suit your argument.
 

montyz81

Well-Known Member
What about Frozen Ever After celebrates any part of Norwegian culture?
https://filmdice.wordpress.com/2014/03/01/norwegian-connections-in-frozen/
I'm kind of scratching my head on that comment. I usually agree with many things you say, but this one is kind of obvious. I do not agree with Frozen being in Norway/Epcot, but it seems like the backdrop for the film is heavily based on Norwegian culture. The true question is, does it teach you anything about Norwegian culture, and the answer to that is a resounding NOOOOOO! Therefore, it does not belong in Epcot.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
"Jimmy plays on the beach." The beach is not the subject.

"Jimmy plays on the glistening white sands of the beach amongst the roar of the waves crashing onto rocky outcrops." Despite the beach being given much more detail, it is still not the subject.

The Norwegian design and the intensity of research in Frozen has to do with the long tradition of realism at the Walt Disney Animation Studios, the detail demands of digital imagery versus the "traditional" means of the Animation medium and the suspension of disbelief.
 

DDLand

Well-Known Member
Scandinavian and Sámi inspirationEdit
The setting was principally based on Norway, and the cultural influences in the film come from Scandinavian culture.[100] Several landmarks in Norway appear in the film, including the Akershus Fortress in Oslo, the Nidaros Cathedral in Trondheim, and Bryggen in Bergen. Numerous other typical cultural Scandinavian elements are also included in the film, such as stave churches,[100] trolls,[18]:6Viking ships, a hot spring, Fjord horses,[101]clothes,[80] and food such as lutefisk.[18]:43[102] A maypole is also present in the film, as well as the brief appearance of runes in a book that Anna and Elsa's father opens to figure out where the trolls live.[18]:6 A scene where two men argue over whether to stack firewood bark up or bark down is a reference to the perennial Norwegian debate over how to stack firewood properly.[18]:59[103] The film also contains several elements specifically drawn from Sámi culture, such as the usage of reindeer for transportation and the equipment used to control these, clothing styles (the outfits of the ice cutters), and parts of the musical score.[104][105]Decorations, such as those on the castle pillars and Kristoff's sled, are also in styles inspired by Sámi duodji decorations. During their field work in Norway, Disney's team, for inspiration, visited Rørosrein, a Sámi family-owned company in the village Plassje that produces reindeer meat and arranges tourist events.[106] Arendelle was inspired by Nærøyfjord, a branch of Norway's longest fjord Sognefjorden, which has been listed as a UNESCO World Heritage Site;[107]while a castle in Oslo with beautiful hand-painted patterns on all four walls served as the inspiration for the kingdom's royal castle interior.[108]

The filmmakers' trip to Norway provided essential knowledge for the animators to come up with the design aesthetic for the film in terms of color, light, and atmosphere. According to Giaimo, there were three important factors that they had acquired from the Norway research trip: the fjords, which are the massive vertical rock formations, and serve as the setting for the secluded kingdom of Arendelle; the medieval stave churches, whose rustic triangular rooflines and shingles inspired the castle compound; and the rosemaling folk art, whose distinctive paneling and grid patterns informed the architecture, decor, and costumes.[86]


No one will dismiss the Norwegian influence in the film. There was clearly an attempt to infuse cultural elements into Frozen, and ground it in reality. They obviously weren't extremely rigid about it -especially compared to Moana- but the influence remains. Some of the best music is sourced from their focus in this area. Good for them.

Why then does it still not fit?

Ignoring the visual cues that were already established and contrasted with Frozen, why else? Let's remember what EPCOT is all about. A celebration of mankind's great achievements, a celebration of culture, a celebration of humanity's hope for the future. There's more that could be said in a more detailed or articulate way, but for the purpose of this post, those three will suffice.

It seems all of us have been talking about whether Frozen Ever After fits in Norway. That is the wrong way of looking at it. I think a much better question is how does Frozen Ever After fit in Epcot?

The reason Norway fits is because it focused on the achievements of a great culture, and how that culture is meeting the ever changing world. Maelstrom did the same.

Does Frozen Ever After?

If you're willing to stretch one could contend that Norwegian culture is sort of celebrated. Though that's a stretch. The focus of the attraction is clearly not on Norway or the Sami. It's on Anna, Elsa, and the rest of the gang. Any culture is secondary to the the main storyline. Much like a garnish that looks good but isn't the meat and potatoes, the Sami stuff is nice but really isn't the takeaway.

So let's run through a quick scorecard...

1) Is FEA a celebration of mankind's great achievements? Hardly.

2) Is FEA a celebration of culture? A stretch at best, but I would say somewhat laughable in context of the story source and the 21st century artistic liberties.

3) Is FEA a celebration of the hope for the future? I feel dumb asking that question. Ironically Frozen is set in the past, whereas the actual Pavilion is in the present. Just a note.

So does it fit? No. You could place it in China and it would fit just as well. This setup looks prettier and sounds semi logical, but when you view the Park in the same way as a cinematic or literary work that's trying to tell a grand story with disparate rides and environments reinforcing common values it falls flat.

I'll be curious to see how Bob Chapek's mandate of more Disney at a Disney Park will reinforce the narrative. I doubt it will.


World showcase isn't real. It's not a replication. It's a representation - with plenty of artistic license taken.

World Showcase is a means to a convey a story.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
You claim that basic Norwegian references validate the completely fictional world of Frozen fitting properly in World Showcase, but then you highlight that WS is also a representation. Are you saying that WS pavilions are representations of fictional worlds with loose ties to reality via architecture?

First, I'm saying IMO you're overthinking it.

Next: don't twist my words.

WS, to oversimplify, is a representation of the highlights from different countries as they were many years ago. You can pick apart plenty of inconsistencies of scale, Americanized menus, etc. but why? They're not specifically represented as London and Paris, but the U.K. And France. Norway is next to Mexico.

Frozen is an animated movie based on a composite of real Norwegian things. They went to kind of ridiculous lengths to be as authentic as an animated film might require, probably having no idea the impact it would have in general and on the theme parks.

The only thing comparison arguments do ( to Mexico, to Mary Poppins in the UK, etc. ) is establish precedent, and precedent/tradition alone does not justify anything going forward.

So on its own merits, it's a Disney movie based on someone else's story per usual, set in the country of Norway. I repeat: set in the country of Norway. So if the ride is set in the country of Norway, I can buy that.

Entrance into the park requires a certain suspension of disbelief. If you think world showcase is authentic, give me a break.

Sometimes, especially when retrofitting, you're going to have to make some slight compromises. And that's OK. Intellectual arguments about the integrity of details in a theme park seem really pointless to me. If you're looking for perfect, in the words of Whitney and Aretha, "It isn't, it wasn't, it ain't never gonna be."
 
Last edited:

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom