Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

TeriofTerror

Well-Known Member
I've had a couple of glasses if wine and lots of cold medicine, so I am going to admit something rather controversial: my problem isn't necessarily with the IPs. In my mind, IPs have taken the place of sponsors in the eyes of Disney management - something they need to move forward with new attractions (never mind the crazy ticket prices should absolutely cover this). If Disney wants to put new countries in WS with new E-ticket attractions supported by appropriate IPs, more power to them. But giving a new dress to a spinster and expecting me to treat her like a débutante? No. Just... no.
 

Earl Sweatpants

Well-Known Member
The more I think about it, the whole, "What is vs. What isn't an IP" discussion is a little bit of a moot point since, by definition, ALL of it is an IP. Epcot itself is an IP. So, rather than argue that IPs don't belong in Epcot, I think the issue more lies in creating original IP vs. bringing in existing IP to enhance the attractions. Disney-wide seems heck-bent on shoehorning in existing IP rather than creating their own, and I personally feel like that solution will only work so long.

Yet at the end of the day, Iger's main objectives are not to explore true creativity anymore, but to turn a profit. If a little actual creativity and ingenuity squeeze out as a result, well that's just the icing on his cake...that he gets to also eat.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I've had a couple of glasses if wine and lots of cold medicine, so I am going to admit something rather controversial: my problem isn't necessarily with the IPs. In my mind, IPs have taken the place of sponsors in the eyes of Disney management - something they need to move forward with new attractions (never mind the crazy ticket prices should absolutely cover this). If Disney wants to put new countries in WS with new E-ticket attractions supported by appropriate IPs, more power to them. But giving a new dress to a spinster and expecting me to treat her like a débutante? No. Just... no.
Except that, outside some small things like meet and greets when a film is released, the Studio is not paying for these attractions, so it is not like sponsorships of the past. The problem is that Disney's executive leadership only sees themed entertainment as a marketing platform, not an entertainment platforms. There is a deep disdain for theme parks and their visitors. The most experienced Chairman of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts is Paul Pressler.
 

TeriofTerror

Well-Known Member
Except that, outside some small things like meet and greets when a film is released, the Studio is not paying for these attractions, so it is not like sponsorships of the past. The problem is that Disney's executive leadership only sees themed entertainment as a marketing platform, not an entertainment platforms. There is a deep disdain for theme parks and their visitors. The most experienced Chairman of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts is Paul Pressler.
Oh, I agree. But Disney does seem to be in "all synergy, all the time" mode, at least to me.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Because when you commit and create an engaging character and/or attraction (Duffy, who I assume you were referencing, was neither) you open the door to new, exciting, and exclusive reasons to visit your worldwide destination.

Why bother building Pirates of the Caribbean when they could have just built a ride based off of Treasure Island, Disney's already successful film? Because, simply, how great is Pirates of the Caribbean? Make something that will blow people away and you don't need synergy. THAT was the name of the game for the better part of the first 40 years of Disney Parks, and it worked. Who ever gets off of Big Thunder and thinks "that was okay, but it would have been better if there was a familiar intellectual property involved" -- approximately no one? And what's more, I can't think of anyone who ever complained of their not being enough film IP in the Magic Kingdom in all the years that it was constrained pretty much exclusively to Fantasyland.

You can have a mix of familiar and new properties. That's a totally great, proven recipe. Lately they've not been building a mix. At least not in Florida.

Duffy, thanks. Completely forgettable. So we know original is not always "better." Neither can we say an IP is always better. Better ideas are better. And arguing originality regarding the Disney projects is pretty ironic considering how many of his biggest hits were borrowed.

I don't think we can say with any degree of certainty that treasure Island would have been any better or worse than potc.

It seems like people are just giving points for originality as if that's a thing.
 
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Earl Sweatpants

Well-Known Member
Duffy, thanks. Completely forgettable. So we know original is not always "better." Neither can we say and IP is always better. Better ideas are better. And arguing originality regarding the Disney projects is pretty ironic considering how many of his biggest hits were borrowed.

I don't think we can say with any degree of certainty that treasure Island would have been any better or worse than potc.

It seems like people are just giving points for originality as if that's a thing.
Right...originality doesn't exist...
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
And a made-up setting at that. Let's face it. Management wanted to financially capitalize on the movie's success and well, Arendelle can pass as Norway for the most part, so screw thematic integrity, in it goes!

Why doesn't anybody realize what an insignificant point that is?

So if they picked the name of a real historic Norwegian village and used that in the film instead of the name they used...

Everything would be the same.

So close your eyes and pretend the town has a different name.

Also, trolls aren't real. Snowmen can't talk or dance. But keep worrying about the artistic license they took with the name of the town.

World Showcase is not Wikipedia.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Why doesn't anybody realize what an insignificant point that is?

So if they picked the name of a real historic Norwegian village and used that in the film instead of the name they used...

Everything would be the same.

So close your eyes and pretend the town has a different name.

Also, trolls aren't real. Snowmen can't talk or dance. But keep worrying about the artistic license they took with the name of the town.

World Showcase is not Wikipedia.
The name of the town is not the big issue. The film is not about Norway. It's specific setting is of little consequence to the story. If the fictional kingdom used a Russian aesthetic that would not change the story.
 

Earl Sweatpants

Well-Known Member
Why doesn't anybody realize what an insignificant point that is?

So if they picked the name of a real historic Norwegian village and used that in the film instead of the name they used...

Everything would be the same.

So close your eyes and pretend the town has a different name.

Also, trolls aren't real. Snowmen can't talk or dance. But keep worrying about the artistic license they took with the name of the town.

World Showcase is not Wikipedia.
It would not be the same. If Disney had set Frozen in an ACTUAL Norwegian location, then by all means throw it in to the Norway pavilion. How silly to think that a place like World Showcase could ever hope to have thematic integrity. Tell me, when are the cultural representatives from Arendelle going to arrive at the pavilion? I'd like to meet them.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
It would not be the same. If Disney had set Frozen in an ACTUAL Norwegian location, then by all means throw it in to the Norway pavilion. How silly to think that a place like World Showcase could ever hope to have thematic integrity. Tell me, when are the cultural representatives from Arendelle going to arrive at the pavilion? I'd like to meet them.
Theme is more than just setting. You're making a silly distinction of no consequence to the narrative of the film.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
It would not be the same. If Disney had set Frozen in an ACTUAL Norwegian location, then by all means throw it in to the Norway pavilion. How silly to think that a place like World Showcase could ever hope to have thematic integrity. Tell me, when are the cultural representatives from Arendelle going to arrive at the pavilion? I'd like to meet them.

I'm sorry, this is too ridiculous.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
The name of the town is not the big issue. The film is not about Norway. It's specific setting is of little consequence to the story. If the fictional kingdom used a Russian aesthetic that would not change the story.

It would not be the same. If Disney had set Frozen in an ACTUAL Norwegian location, then by all means throw it in to the Norway pavilion. How silly to think that a place like World Showcase could ever hope to have thematic integrity. Tell me, when are the cultural representatives from Arendelle going to arrive at the pavilion? I'd like to meet them.

Scandinavian and Sámi inspirationEdit
The setting was principally based on Norway, and the cultural influences in the film come from Scandinavian culture.[100] Several landmarks in Norway appear in the film, including the Akershus Fortress in Oslo, the Nidaros Cathedral in Trondheim, and Bryggen in Bergen. Numerous other typical cultural Scandinavian elements are also included in the film, such as stave churches,[100] trolls,[18]:6Viking ships, a hot spring, Fjord horses,[101]clothes,[80] and food such as lutefisk.[18]:43[102] A maypole is also present in the film, as well as the brief appearance of runes in a book that Anna and Elsa's father opens to figure out where the trolls live.[18]:6 A scene where two men argue over whether to stack firewood bark up or bark down is a reference to the perennial Norwegian debate over how to stack firewood properly.[18]:59[103] The film also contains several elements specifically drawn from Sámi culture, such as the usage of reindeer for transportation and the equipment used to control these, clothing styles (the outfits of the ice cutters), and parts of the musical score.[104][105]Decorations, such as those on the castle pillars and Kristoff's sled, are also in styles inspired by Sámi duodji decorations. During their field work in Norway, Disney's team, for inspiration, visited Rørosrein, a Sámi family-owned company in the village Plassje that produces reindeer meat and arranges tourist events.[106] Arendelle was inspired by Nærøyfjord, a branch of Norway's longest fjord Sognefjorden, which has been listed as a UNESCO World Heritage Site;[107]while a castle in Oslo with beautiful hand-painted patterns on all four walls served as the inspiration for the kingdom's royal castle interior.[108]

The filmmakers' trip to Norway provided essential knowledge for the animators to come up with the design aesthetic for the film in terms of color, light, and atmosphere. According to Giaimo, there were three important factors that they had acquired from the Norway research trip: the fjords, which are the massive vertical rock formations, and serve as the setting for the secluded kingdom of Arendelle; the medieval stave churches, whose rustic triangular rooflines and shingles inspired the castle compound; and the rosemaling folk art, whose distinctive paneling and grid patterns informed the architecture, decor, and costumes.[86]
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Scandinavian and Sámi inspirationEdit
The setting was principally based on Norway, and the cultural influences in the film come from Scandinavian culture.[100] Several landmarks in Norway appear in the film, including the Akershus Fortress in Oslo, the Nidaros Cathedral in Trondheim, and Bryggen in Bergen. Numerous other typical cultural Scandinavian elements are also included in the film, such as stave churches,[100] trolls,[18]:6Viking ships, a hot spring, Fjord horses,[101]clothes,[80] and food such as lutefisk.[18]:43[102] A maypole is also present in the film, as well as the brief appearance of runes in a book that Anna and Elsa's father opens to figure out where the trolls live.[18]:6 A scene where two men argue over whether to stack firewood bark up or bark down is a reference to the perennial Norwegian debate over how to stack firewood properly.[18]:59[103] The film also contains several elements specifically drawn from Sámi culture, such as the usage of reindeer for transportation and the equipment used to control these, clothing styles (the outfits of the ice cutters), and parts of the musical score.[104][105]Decorations, such as those on the castle pillars and Kristoff's sled, are also in styles inspired by Sámi duodji decorations. During their field work in Norway, Disney's team, for inspiration, visited Rørosrein, a Sámi family-owned company in the village Plassje that produces reindeer meat and arranges tourist events.[106] Arendelle was inspired by Nærøyfjord, a branch of Norway's longest fjord Sognefjorden, which has been listed as a UNESCO World Heritage Site;[107]while a castle in Oslo with beautiful hand-painted patterns on all four walls served as the inspiration for the kingdom's royal castle interior.[108]

The filmmakers' trip to Norway provided essential knowledge for the animators to come up with the design aesthetic for the film in terms of color, light, and atmosphere. According to Giaimo, there were three important factors that they had acquired from the Norway research trip: the fjords, which are the massive vertical rock formations, and serve as the setting for the secluded kingdom of Arendelle; the medieval stave churches, whose rustic triangular rooflines and shingles inspired the castle compound; and the rosemaling folk art, whose distinctive paneling and grid patterns informed the architecture, decor, and costumes.[86]
The aesthetic elements and their source of inspiration are not in question.
 

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