CanadianGordon
Well-Known Member
I anxiously await Epcot. I just wish they could have kept Kitchen Kabaret... I loved it so when I first visited the park when I was young. I think I went a year after Epcot opened....
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Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot
- Thread starter Bacon
- Start date
twilight mitsuk
Well-Known Member
and a hurricane shelter
Kman101
Well-Known Member
It's funny. So many things they found "outdated" in the 90s would now be "in", like Kitchen Kabaret (IMO) and the entire Wonders of Life pavilion focusing on health. Go figure.
RoysCabin
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I think a strong argument could be made that no park suffered more over the push for "cool" in the 90s than EPCOT. Inserting celebrities into experiences, adding a sarcastic tone to certain experiences, going toward a 90s color/shape pattern aesthetic in places like Innoventions, etc., it just gutted a lot of EPCOT's identity. It certainly existed elsewhere, like with Iago making fun of the Hall of Presidents during the 90s version of the Tiki Room, but EPCOT probably took the brunt of it.
During my work toward a masters in history I got a chance to take a handful of American Studies classes, and one focused on the shift in society and art from the Modern period to the Postmodern. When we did papers on the topic, I realized WDW, and EPCOT in particular, was one of the best examples I could come up with to illustrate the changes (e.g. forgoing thematic unity, knowingly hurting sight lines with the clearly postmodern Swan/Dolphin, stuff like that). Not at all a knock against all postmodernism, mind you, but it was just a style that was never, ever going to work set against the incredibly modernist skeleton of EPCOT Center.
HauntedMansionFLA
Well-Known Member
Will Bob Chapek finally bite the bullet a turn EPCOT into the MK 2.0 like it should. Announcement at the next D23?
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
That should go over like a screen door in a submarine! Film at 11!
freediverdude
Well-Known Member
Well to be fair, Disney didn't have control over the Swan and Dolphin and how they looked. Eisner decided he wanted Disney to build their own hotels, and break the agreement Disney had with Starwood or whatever they were called at the time to operate all the hotels on property. In order to break the agreement he gave them a choice of whatever spot they wanted to build one hotel complex. Disney was actually embarrassed because it did end up ruining some sight lines in Epcot.
HauntedMansionFLA
Well-Known Member
Just wait. My sources say things are in the works.......................perhaps
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Disney was not embarrassed by the design because it was Disney who hired Graves.
Just like one can see the Contemporary and the utterly non-themed and blocky behemoth of Bay Tower from the MK?
Or, like how one can see Spaceship Earth and the other buildings of Future World towering over the national pavilions? And before anyone says how Spaceship Earth's and Imagination's pavilion look OK, please direct your attention to the huge ugly block known as Test Track towering over Mexico.
Besides, I think those supposed sight-line-breakers look swanky enough like they're their own nations...
Haymarket2008
Well-Known Member
I hope and pray that someone like Joe Rohde was and is to Animal Kingdom can swoop in bring some much needed passion to the park.
The Contemporary Hotel was purposely placed where it is to be seen from Tomorrowland. The original Tomorrowland offered a clear unobstructed view of the Contemporary Hotel. The original Tomorrowland and the Contemporary Hotel shared the same design.
(Long-time reader; first-time commenter.)
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HauntedMansionFLA
Well-Known Member
Isn't Melissa Valiquette doing a great job so far?
WDWTank
Well-Known Member
I heard a comment on Theme Park Insider about the only expansion planned was Mt. Fuji. So I guess that concept will be returning in some form, but hopefully Not big hero 6. I'm hoping for imagigineering at its finest, no creative restrictions based on movies.
Welcome to the discussion!
And now... the knives come out!!!
While the Contemporary 'fits' with the theming of Tommorowland, the fact is... it can be seen. Which is what people complain about the Swan and Dolphin. The architecture of the Swolphin is as nicely architectured as the Eiffel Tower or the Japanese Pagoda. It really shouldn't be an issue, but for some, it is.
But then some say that the Swolphin really doesn't 'fit' (in their opinion). And that is why I brought up Bay Tower and Test Track. They are just two big ol' hunks of building with nothing aesthetically pleasing about them, and they both 'mar' the sightlines of the Magic Kingdom and the World Showcase way more than the Swolphin ever would. And yet, where is the complaint from these World Showcase Sightline Purists about them?
Hating on the Swolphin is a long time bugaboo of the haters. That hate is completely irrational if it doesn't include Bay Tower and Test Track, which for some strange reason, they're blinded to.
WDWTank
Well-Known Member
I'd love to, but I'm stuck at high school
Luckily and thank goodness I'll graduate in a few months, be out of that place where I don't belong and fit in..
RoysCabin
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the discussion!
And now... the knives come out!!!
While the Contemporary 'fits' with the theming of Tommorowland, the fact is... it can be seen. Which is what people complain about the Swan and Dolphin. The architecture of the Swolphin is as nicely architectured as the Eiffel Tower or the Japanese Pagoda. It really shouldn't be an issue, but for some, it is.
But then some say that the Swolphin really doesn't 'fit' (in their opinion). And that is why I brought up Bay Tower and Test Track. They are just two big ol' hunks of building with nothing aesthetically pleasing about them, and they both 'mar' the sightlines of the Magic Kingdom and the World Showcase way more than the Swolphin ever would. And yet, where is the complaint from these World Showcase Sightline Purists about them?
Hating on the Swolphin is a long time bugaboo of the haters. That hate is completely irrational if it doesn't include Bay Tower and Test Track, which for some strange reason, they're blinded to.
That's really inaccurate to say, I think; the Bay Tower complaints have been plentiful since it was put up. The original Contemporary was designed in large part to work well with the view from Tomorrowland as originally constructed in '71, but Bay Tower never fit well. Beyond that, though, Bay Tower doesn't really jump into any consistent view from current Tomorrowland, not with Space Mountain and other developments taking up space.
The critique of Test Track/World of Motion makes more sense, though even then it at least warrants a bit of an exception given the fact that looking in that direction in EPCOT is supposed to draw attention toward attractions within Future World. Still flawed, certainly, but at least part of the overall park experience.
This seems a bit more like just trying to pick at annoyances and draw a response than it is to engage in a really straightforward discussion of an interesting bit of theming minutiae, to be honest. The aesthetics of the Swan and Dolphin don't fit in the least, not the least of which because they essentially embody Postmodern architecture against a backdrop of both Modernist architecture and small scale recreations of actual locations, and neither are part of the park experience nor play into the overall aesthetic of the general area they're visible from (the way that the original Contemporary is meant to be visible from Tomorrowland). Bay Tower, sure, but again, that's a very different situation compared with the original '71 layouts and not exactly much of an eyesore from current Tomorrowland.
Beyond all that, though, that really wasn't why I brought the topic up in the first place; it was only brought up to mention a willing move away from full thematic unity, which Disney must've been alright with on some level given that the company had a strong say in the final design of the Swan/Dolphin, a resort which I do like, for what it's worth.
Like what's already been posted on these very forums?
No, Eisner was warned about the sightlines. He was willing to forgo the issue since he liked the design so much (he also personally chose the final design)
As it stands Japan expansion is on hold.