Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

peter11435

Well-Known Member
and more importantly internalizes the words posted at the front of the park and delivered by Card on opening day.
Well opening day was nearly 35 years ago. I'm ok with the park evolving and changing to some degree. But the VP needs to have some passion for the park they run and understanding of what the park is, was, and it's history. Mellisa sadly has none of that.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Well, that's better than it being Frozen. ;)
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marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Well opening day was nearly 35 years ago. I'm ok with the park evolving and changing to some degree. But the VP needs to have some passion for the park they run and understanding of what the park is, was, and it's history. Mellisa sadly has none of that.
Possibly McPhee was the last of that ilk. Until he was asked to move onto the you know what's...
 

montyz81

Well-Known Member
Well opening day was nearly 35 years ago. I'm ok with the park evolving and changing to some degree. But the VP needs to have some passion for the park they run and understanding of what the park is, was, and it's history. Mellisa sadly has none of that.
That was what I was trying to say
 

Earl Sweatpants

Well-Known Member
So much for Snow White's Scary Adventures, and Walt putting you inside the movie.
Apples and Oranges. (Though I DO have a general beef with those rides, because 9 times out of 10, the "movie" they put you in doesn't really make sense, or is missing key story moments.)

What I was trying to say more has to do with using Frozen in Norway where it does nothing to enhance the country of Norway, its culture, or really anything that World Showcase was founded on. If another IP is to enter WS, I would hope it doesn't repeat that mistake.
 

RoysCabin

Well-Known Member
So much for Snow White's Scary Adventures, and Walt putting you inside the movie.

I'd argue that's a pretty different situation due to a couple of factors:

-When the original Disneyland and WDW movie-based rides were constructed, the entertainment world still lived in the pre-home video distribution market days, meaning that a ride experience doing something as simple as including a song from a movie you remembered as a child (but couldn't see again unless it got a theatrical re-release) held a lot more resonance than it does in an era where that song is one click away on Spotify or iTunes.

-Even so, however, the original versions of many of these rides did not relegate themselves to "book report" status, and it was in large part because people did not own these films on home video, and thus often only remembered certain scenes and moments. A lot of people associated many parts of Snow White with being scary, so the original ride was a dark one that was based on the Witch pursuing you through a dark wood and gem mine. Even more, the ride let the rider experience BEING Snow White in those scary scenes, ending with the "drop a big rock on your head" finale. People associated The Wind in the Willows with Toad's motorcar mania, so the ride took that the nth degree, even though the unstated "story" is that Toad is dreaming the ride, I believe. People associate Peter Pan with flying, so the experience of flight took precedence over a complete retelling of the plot of the film.

-Contrast that with, say, Frozen Ever After or Little Mermaid in the modern era: these are films people have unfettered access to either streaming or on blu ray/DVD, yet the rides offer little more than the same scenes and songs you've heard many times before. It's not to say they're valueless, or that nothing in them is compelling or interesting, but there's a lot more potential, in my opinion, in developing a ride that emphasizes a memorable moment or concept from those films rather than just showing us "here are those characters you like, singing those songs you already know". FEA, at least, seems to attempt to use its queue to tell a slightly different story, but the ride experience itself really doesn't add anything new to the proceedings. It feels like a missed opportunity.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
-Contrast that with, say, Frozen Ever After or Little Mermaid in the modern era: these are films people have unfettered access to either streaming or on blu ray/DVD, yet the rides offer little more than the same scenes and songs you've heard many times before. It's not to say they're valueless, or that nothing in them is compelling or interesting, but there's a lot more potential, in my opinion, in developing a ride that emphasizes a memorable moment or concept from those films rather than just showing us "here are those characters you like, singing those songs you already know". FEA, at least, seems to attempt to use its queue to tell a slightly different story, but the ride experience itself really doesn't add anything new to the proceedings. It feels like a missed opportunity.

I agree and like what you've said about the historical approach to rides based on an IP. But, I'm going to quibble with you about FEA. It is more than the queue which sets up a different story. It is both the queue and the ride that make it abundantly clear that what you are seeing is a celebration that happened after the events of the movie (and the short). There is no re-staging of events from the movie (even the Ice Palace scene is not from the movie... Elsa isn't making it, she's just singing in it). Some of the songs are altered to make that clear.

In a lot of ways it's like Festival of the Lion King which is also a celebration that takes place after the events of the movie, but then recycles in the songs.

So, I agree that a ride based on an IP today should do more than just show tableaus from the movie; they should create a new story that you don't get from the original IP. Festival of the Lion King does that, Star Tours does that, and FEA does that.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Sign me up for Discoveryland. I also think you hit the nail on the head when you said, "So often the source of this problem is that the retrofitting is suggested by executives, not creatives. When non creative people drive creative decisions it’s increasingly more difficult to avoid diluting the original theme."

Disney has not had true creatives at the helm for a long time, and the financial interests drives everything happening now at the risk of creating less and less original content. What I'd like to see is them use IP's in a creative way and not a "cliff notes movie attraction". If they truly need familiarity to sell an attraction, then use a character, but tell a new story with them. Use them to further the theme of discovery and take everyone on a new adventure.
I really loved how OLC can use Disney IP's properly. Look at the Genie Magic Show at Tokyo Disneysea and Big Band Beat for example.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
I'd argue that's a pretty different situation due to a couple of factors:

-When the original Disneyland and WDW movie-based rides were constructed, the entertainment world still lived in the pre-home video distribution market days, meaning that a ride experience doing something as simple as including a song from a movie you remembered as a child (but couldn't see again unless it got a theatrical re-release) held a lot more resonance than it does in an era where that song is one click away on Spotify or iTunes.

-Even so, however, the original versions of many of these rides did not relegate themselves to "book report" status, and it was in large part because people did not own these films on home video, and thus often only remembered certain scenes and moments. A lot of people associated many parts of Snow White with being scary, so the original ride was a dark one that was based on the Witch pursuing you through a dark wood and gem mine. Even more, the ride let the rider experience BEING Snow White in those scary scenes, ending with the "drop a big rock on your head" finale. People associated The Wind in the Willows with Toad's motorcar mania, so the ride took that the nth degree, even though the unstated "story" is that Toad is dreaming the ride, I believe. People associate Peter Pan with flying, so the experience of flight took precedence over a complete retelling of the plot of the film.

-Contrast that with, say, Frozen Ever After or Little Mermaid in the modern era: these are films people have unfettered access to either streaming or on blu ray/DVD, yet the rides offer little more than the same scenes and songs you've heard many times before. It's not to say they're valueless, or that nothing in them is compelling or interesting, but there's a lot more potential, in my opinion, in developing a ride that emphasizes a memorable moment or concept from those films rather than just showing us "here are those characters you like, singing those songs you already know". FEA, at least, seems to attempt to use its queue to tell a slightly different story, but the ride experience itself really doesn't add anything new to the proceedings. It feels like a missed opportunity.

People can apparently rationalize any position they want to hold.

So dead Walt doesn't want us to ride the movie anymore because we can rewatch it easily.
 

Earl Sweatpants

Well-Known Member
People can apparently rationalize any position they want to hold.

So dead Walt doesn't want us to ride the movie anymore because we can rewatch it easily.
Yep. That's exactly right :rolleyes:
It actually makes sense though if you really think about it.

Folks back in the 50s went to the theatre, saw a great movie and then if they wanted to continue that experience they basically had to go back to the theatre again. But along comes Disneyland and hey, there's a ride based on that movie I love! It features cherry-picked "moments" from the film that helps me enjoy the movie once it stops running. In many ways, it was a very smart approach.

Now contrast that with today. DVD, blu-ray, soundtracks etc all help you "experience" the film anytime you want. What purpose does a newly created "movie highlights" dark ride serve? Take the Little Mermaid ride. I'll be honest here...its pretty pointless. Now before you start saying "well then we should just bulldoze old fantasy-land since we all have the blu-rays"...no. I'm NOT suggesting that because there is history and they're great for what they are. But why is it so hard to create something unique with beloved characters? I would highly doubt that anyone who rides the Little Mermaid is unfamiliar with its story. So why just re-tell it to them? Take us on a new undersea adventure!
 
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