Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

[Goofyernmost]

They have before unfortunately. Big thunder in DL. That leadership is gone, however.

Not sure if they actually knew it was unsafe. But they were neglectful for sure.

Anything is possible, of course, but, Disney has awful deep pockets and I'm pretty sure that they don't want to give all of it away via lawsuits. Can you imagine the degree of exposure that any idea that they let a ride run into intentional unsafe disrepair would create. All that profit could go up the chimney very, very quickly. They, of all organizations, cannot afford to be negligent no matter how much it cost to make sure it isn't. Years of maintenance would be way cheaper then one single negligence suit that they lose.

 

[flynnibus]

The original Epcot Center was an incredible place, and has left many of us with wondrous memories. But I don't believe Horizons, WoM, etc., if they still existed, could attract legions of brand new fans in 2016. .

If WDWMagic is any indicator... if Disney offered a special paid seating option... people would line up to try!

 

[Next Big Thing]

And yet "Center" remains in the last paragraph. Proof-reading people! C'mon!

That's a direct quote. It would be revisionist history to change that.

 

[21stamps]

They have before unfortunately. Big thunder in DL. That leadership is gone, however.

Not sure if they actually knew it was unsafe. But they were neglectful for sure.

I took a 'tour' once of an amusement park. It was actually really neat. Have you ever been to an amusement park where they are showing the break down process on a tv while waiting in line? They included that info in it, but more in depth. The way that they go over these coasters with a fine tooth comb, looking for any stress, the smallest crack, etc, as well as the structure itself was very reassuring. I had no idea what actually went into all of it. I would just like to believe, and hope that I'm correct, that if amusement parks do such rigorous inspections, then it would also mean that the most populated theme park in the world would have just as much attention to detail, if not more.

If I am incorrect, then I want to live in my place of ignorance and remain unafraid. lol.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

We

I'm extremely jealous of you Frozen Ever After experience! We were never able to get a FP for it Standby never went below 90 minutes, so we passed.

ll, there is next time. The frozen ride was well done and gave world showcase a shot in the arm.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Really? I thought Epcot was struggling to hit projections right out of the gate.

EPCOT Center was Roy Disney's scapegoat that justified his ousting of his uncle's family.

Please answer this honestly,

Do you actually think that Disney would run a coaster knowing it was unsafe?

Old doesn't make something unsafe. Failing to do upkeep and safety checks would be unsafe. I'm very curious to know if you believe that they would be negligent in those aspects.

"We have to ride these rides to failure." That was the philosophy employed by Paul Pressler. The result was the fatal Big Thunder Mountain Railroad failure. Despite that, his business model for the parks remains in place.

Space Mountain at Disneyland was shut down for its rebuilding early because it's structure failed. Disney estimated its remaining viability wrong. That the failure was found over night was a matter of luck.

 

[brb1006]

Mr. Chapek, I'd like to present to you a picture that I think captures very well what "Disney" means to me.

This is a photo of the recently refurbished Big Thunder Mountain Railroad at Disneyland Paris. A wonderful E-Ticket experience that 25 years after debuting in France (and 37 after the original in California) people still line up for by the thounsdands every day of the year. Inside the mountain there are no princesses, no appearence by Mickey Mouse, or Darth Vader or Iron Man. There is no gift shop at the end where guests can buy plush toys of the characters who live amongst its peaks, or a DVD of the movie on which the ride is based (of which there is none). The ride has no loop, no flips, no launch and never goes beyond about 40mph.

But guests, and their children, and their children's children, still come back time and again to experience the ride, because it offers them the kind of adventure they can't get anywhere else. Westworld is only a TV show, but that kind of immersive themed experience exists in real life right now at your parks because a team of artists and construction workers had a confident management team that was willing to trust them to bring their ideas to life (often with smaller budgets and shorter construction time frames). Thanks to them, Disney theme parks have developed their own brand of excitement that generations of tourists have come to see.

Epcot is no different. As with all ideas, it presents designers with a blank canvas to explore opportunities to build new ideas and expand upon old ones in ways previous technology could not do before. The broad concepts for the pavilions (Imagination, Life, Engergy etc) and the vast number of ethnic cultures on this earth present hundreds of chances to turn abstract thoughts into tangible attractions for visitors to discover, talk about, and yes, pay for. No intellectual property rights required.

Epcot may not be at its strongest, but it still has the potential to make Big Thunder Mountain look like a mole hill in comparison. The rough outlines and massive supporting infrastructure still exist to uphold new takes on what lived there before. Efficient ride systems, good food, quality merchandise and hard working employees never go out of date. If you give them something to brag about, they'll all work to help sell you a theme park that puts the others that fill central Florida to shame. That's what "Disney" is all about Mr Chapek. I'm sure Walt would agree.

Photo credit: InsideDLParis

 

[Bocabear]

I think that if they hadn't had those two unfortunate deaths early on I think that MS would have been a very popular attraction even today. It was a really unique attraction (and pretty expensive). Once the deaths happened then a massive number of discussions about sickness (motion) came out, coupled with the deaths it scared the heck out of people. Even myself, a person that has never had motion sickness in my life, hesitated for a year or so before I tried it. Turned out to just be fun for me. I am not a person that shows a lot of excitement over rides, but, after riding it the first time, all I could do was yell out "AWESOME" at the end. Fewer people are aware of the early problems now, but, they do not push it like they did when it first opened, so it has built up a degree of following, but, not what it should have been. I still ride MS every time I go there. I mostly use the green side now, but, I still love it.

I don't think the deaths or sickness doomed this attraction, it is the attraction (Pavilion) itself that comes up short. If this had been like the original idea that was hyped...Merely the transportation system to bring you to the Space Pavilion, it would have been spectacular... Instead we got a pre-show with no show behind it... We have Act1 without a second half.... I understand the ride system was more expensive than anticipated, but they really should have built the actual pavilion...not just a lot of plain hallways leading to a couple hastily done arcade games, a climbing structure and gift shop... You know if the never-ending plain hallways even had simple windows into the martian landscape, that would do a lot to make you feeel more transported... but the ride suffers in my mind from being an incomplete experience which makes it less engaging as a whole.

 

[dreamscometrue]

Oh absolutely. I've said it before. If Horizons and Motion in particular still existed today in their original forms they'd be so dated it would be comical.

What would have been ideal was for overhauled versions still being able to draw lines today, just like Spaceship Earth. The same 1982 experience dressed up for today's visitors (even with its shortcomings)

Or even better 2016 versions of the original attractions scope, drama, story, detail, technology and overall wowness.

I am more optimistic for a 'better' Epcot, because of comments you've made, such as...

"I think I'm the one who said a better Epcot could be coming and will be mainly IP driven."

 

[Goofyernmost]

I don't think the deaths or sickness doomed this attraction, it is the attraction (Pavilion) itself that comes up short. If this had been like the original idea that was hyped...Merely the transportation system to bring you to the Space Pavilion, it would have been spectacular... Instead we got a pre-show with no show behind it... We have Act1 without a second half.... I understand the ride system was more expensive than anticipated, but they really should have built the actual pavilion...not just a lot of plain hallways leading to a couple hastily done arcade games, a climbing structure and gift shop... You know if the never-ending plain hallways even had simple windows into the martian landscape, that would do a lot to make you feeel more transported... but the ride suffers in my mind from being an incomplete experience which makes it less engaging as a whole.

Again, like most things on these boards, that is purely personal opinion concerning the "falls short" aspect. It falls short if you expectations are higher then reality or if you expected something different then what you got. It isn't even close to falls short to me. I completely enjoyed the attraction. I hardly ever participate in the after ride activities of some of the attractions. I went there for the ride and, to me, it delivered. No one can blanketly say that something generally is not sufficient in a sense that everyone feels that way. That is your opinion and you are the one that feels that way.

I've even heard people talk about how they were upset because they didn't actually control the "flight". Seriously, just exactly how would that work? Would it be a one person at a time ride. Again, unrealistic expectations do cause some people to be less then impressed. Perhaps someday, in a parallel universe, all that will be possible. The only downside that I noticed was that we crashed the ship and had to walk all the way back from Mars to Orlando and my feet were already hurting.

 

[Bocabear]

Again, like most things on these boards, that is purely personal opinion concerning the "falls short" aspect. It falls short if you expectations are higher then reality or if you expected something different then what you got. It isn't even close to falls short to me. I completely enjoyed the attraction. I hardly ever participate in the after ride activities of some of the attractions. I went there for the ride and, to me, it delivered. No one can blanketly say that something generally is not sufficient in a sense that everyone feels that way. That is your opinion and you are the one that feels that way.

I've even heard people talk about how they were upset because they didn't actually control the "flight". Seriously, just exactly how would that work? Would it be a one person at a time ride. Again, unrealistic expectations do cause some people to be less then impressed. Perhaps someday, in a parallel universe, all that will be possible. The only downside that I noticed was that we crashed the ship and had to walk all the way back from Mars to Orlando and my feet were already hurting.

you obviously love this attraction and never actually saw any of the original concept art... I am disappointed that it was not the full pavilion. I like the ride fine, but I feel like building the complete pavilion would have resonated with more people... Again, I am glad you like what they built, but it was planned (and hyped) to be much more.

 

[P_Radden]

you obviously love this attraction and never actually saw any of the original concept art... I am disappointed that it was not the full pavilion. I like the ride fine, but I feel like building the complete pavilion would have resonated with more people... Again, I am glad you like what they built, but it was planned (and hyped) to be much more.

I may be in the minority here but I personally do not care for Mission Space at all. One ride on Orange was enough for me, and Green is just boring. Don't get me wrong, I love si-fi movies, but this ride just seems like a let down. The technology is awesome with the centrifuges but the in flight movie sucks, the graphics suck and there is only the one story. Something else that grinds my gears is that the big set doesn't even rotate so it just looks broken. Also, you can clearly see up into the lounge and even watch HGTV on the tv up there from the queue line. @Bocabear I agree with you fully, I wish it was a full blown pavilion.

Also can someone please tell me what the heck those CM's in the "control room" are doing? Are they just acting like mission control? Are they actually monitoring the mechanics of the ride systems? Or are they just playing FarmVille?

 

[Goofyernmost]

you obviously love this attraction and never actually saw any of the original concept art... I am disappointed that it was not the full pavilion. I like the ride fine, but I feel like building the complete pavilion would have resonated with more people... Again, I am glad you like what they built, but it was planned (and hyped) to be much more.

Original concept art is an idea drawn on a piece of paper. It is a wish, a desire, perhaps even another way to go (option). I would have been happy if it actually came out that way. I also used to spend hours looking at Lamborghini's, but, I could never have one, that doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy and even love some of the vehicles that I was able to have. This group spends way to much time getting all sobby about what could have been if all the stars lined up properly the day the decision was made. It is a huge waste of time to spend one minute concerned about what might have been possible instead of appreciating what actually did happen. They didn't build that whole pavilion and then tear half of it down. That decision was made before they built anything. It never was anything but an idea, one that wasn't going to ever be built, just one of many possibilities. If they had no other reason for not doing that BIG plan, one of the biggest influences was just 60 miles to the east at Cape Canaveral. Why spend billions on a fake space exhibit when the real damn thing was just up the road. It couldn't help but be unreal to those that experienced the real thing.

Besides, almost no one except the few that come to these boards knows anything about those "concept" art displays. We would all be better off if no one did. It is like sitting around wishing you were the richest man in the world and getting more and more upset about it. You (probably) aren't, so why not enjoy what life did give you and spend less time pining over what it didn't.

For some of the reasons I just mentioned, I do not believe it would have had that much impact on the overall popularity. It is the ride that people wanted to do. Standing around playing in an imaginary space workshop, would not have been the draw, just maybe another way of killing time. One doesn't have a lot of time to kill in Epcot. There are a lot of things to see and a long walk to get there. You want to see real space stuff, take a trip to the Kennedy Space Center, step inside a real shuttle, stand under a real Saturn V rocket and be humbled by it's size. Don't just rely on Disney to give you a complete plastic experience. Better yet, don't really want them to do that.

 

[Bocabear]

Original concept art is an idea drawn on a piece of paper. It is a wish, a desire, perhaps even another way to go (option). I would have been happy if it actually came out that way. I also used to spend hours looking at Lamborghini's, but, I could never have one, that doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy and even love some of the vehicles that I was able to have. This group spends way to much time getting all sobby about what could have been if all the stars lined up properly the day the decision was made. It is a huge waste of time to spend one minute concerned about what might have been possible instead of appreciating what actually did happen. They didn't build that whole pavilion and then tear half of it down. That decision was made before they built anything. It never was anything but an idea, one that wasn't going to ever be built, just one of many possibilities. If they had no other reason for not doing that BIG plan, one of the biggest influences was just 60 miles to the east at Cape Canaveral. Why spend billions on a fake space exhibit when the real damn thing was just up the road. It couldn't help but be unreal to those that experienced the real thing.

Besides, almost no one except the few that come to these boards knows anything about those "concept" art displays. We would all be better off if no one did. It is like sitting around wishing you were the richest man in the world and getting more and more upset about it. You (probably) aren't, so why not enjoy what life did give you and spend less time pining over what it didn't.

For some of the reasons I just mentioned, I do not believe it would have had that much impact on the overall popularity. It is the ride that people wanted to do. Standing around playing in an imaginary space workshop, would not have been the draw, just maybe another way of killing time. One doesn't have a lot of time to kill in Epcot. There are a lot of things to see and a long walk to get there. You want to see real space stuff, take a trip to the Kennedy Space Center, step inside a real shuttle, stand under a real Saturn V rocket and be humbled by it's size. Don't just rely on Disney to give you a complete plastic experience. Better yet, don't really want them to do that.

yeah, except Disney uses the concept art for marketing purposes...I suppose one could go through life with blinders on...but... And I don't believe it takes seeing the concept art to notice the pavilion comes up a little short.. it just feels incomplete.. To me anyway. And I understand there are many that love it. I like it...But the pavilion's lack of popularity should tell you that it is not just the fanboys pining for what they don't have, that dont love the attraction...I never expected a space pavilion to give me the real experience of Kennedy Space Center... I expected an EPCOTY approach...something more fantastic that left you inspired and dreaming afterwards.. Like the original pavilions did.

 

[marni1971]

There's art, plans, proposals

And there's reality. The latter hits almost every pavilion. Some more than others. Space was hit hugely. And did fall short. Eisners cloning plan (for HKDL and DLP) was axed.

Some members here may not care about what could and would have been. That fine.

Doesn't mean the others are wrong.

Horizons had to cut 10% of its budget. Cuts were very cleverly made and the ride still delivered partly due to the way the changes were made and partly due to the calibre of the overall attraction. For example.

The dwarf coaster had cuts made, lost a show scene and became shorter. For example.

 

[ford91exploder]

yeah, except Disney uses the concept art for marketing purposes...I suppose one could go through life with blinders on...but... And I don't believe it takes seeing the concept art to notice the pavilion comes up a little short.. it just feels incomplete.. To me anyway. And I understand there are many that love it. I like it...But the pavilion's lack of popularity should tell you that it is not just the fanboys pining for what they don't have, that dont love the attraction...I never expected a space pavilion to give me the real experience of Kennedy Space Center... I expected an EPCOTY approach...something more fantastic that left you inspired and dreaming afterwards.. Like the original pavilions did.

Exactly, No one but an engineer is going to be impressed with the crane in the VAB which can lift 250 tons with a positioning accuracy in the ten thousanth's of an inch range,

That said it's things like Horizons which lit the spark in a young person's imagination to be one of the people who BUILD the incredible stuff at Kennedy Space Center, Things like well 'that crane'

Or the old Communicore, How many kids who are now mid-career Silicon Valley Executive types saw that and said I want to build that capability for everyone ???

To me that's what made EPCOT, EPCOT not a place of reality but a place of inspiration.

 

[ford91exploder]

Please answer this honestly,

Do you actually think that Disney would run a coaster knowing it was unsafe?

Old doesn't make something unsafe. Failing to do upkeep and safety checks would be unsafe. I'm very curious to know if you believe that they would be negligent in those aspects.

Yes, Disney WOULD run a coaster if was unsafe, Back in the Paul Pressler days the mantra was (and still is today) 'We must run these rides till failure" And at DL the BTMRR was at that point and someone got killed, I'm pretty sure that there were engineering reports saying this ride was unsafe and needs to be shut down, At DL the track actually BROKE on SM and luckily it was found in an overnight inspection and that triggered the complete rebuild. On Columbia at DL a bollard pulled out of the pier and killed again that failure was due to corrosion.

At WDW they installed trim brakes to slow the cars down so they would not load the track structure as much, As an engineer that says to me that the structure can no longer support it's design loads i.e. it's unsafe under some conditions, Disney is depending upon being LUCKY right now and hopefully no one pays for that gamble with life or limb.

This kind of mindset is also what triggered BOTH Space Shuttle disasters, Challenger being launched when it was too cold manager overrode the scrub decision, Columbia because managers refused to authorize a EVA to inspect the spaceframe because it would impact their BUDGET.

At some point Engineers with stamps need to get a government oversight board where they can bring their concerns and have their opinion count and be ENFORCED because PE's are LICENSED just like MD's and their decisions impact the safety of large numbers of people.

 

[JohnD]

Oh absolutely. I've said it before. If Horizons and Motion in particular still existed today in their original forms they'd be so dated it would be comical.

What would have been ideal was for overhauled versions still being able to draw lines today, just like Spaceship Earth. The same 1982 experience dressed up for today's visitors (even with its shortcomings)

Or even better 2016 versions of the original attractions scope, drama, story, detail, technology and overall wowness.

I could see an Imagination 1.0 dressed up with 21st Century technology easily.

 

[marni1971]

I could see an Imagination 1.0 dressed up with 21st Century technology easily.

Sigh. Me too. A story still relevant today told with 2016 technology.

 

[OSUPhantom]

Sigh. Me too. A story still relevant today told with 2016 technology.

I think Imagination has the luxury of being rather timeline compared to some other pavilions. It's a concept, that the power of creativity and imagination is outstanding and can do amazing things, can age very well if Disney can be smart about designing an attraction.