Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

[geekza]

I really think that even with fantastic maintenance and updated effects that World of Motion, for example, would be a little too cheesy for modern audiences.

This is why older effects that can now be accomplished in a more dynamic way are updated over the years in attractions like Haunted Mansion and Pirates.

Now, irrational EPCOT Center lover that I am, I will admit that World of Motion was not on the same level as those two rides or Spaceship Earth, but that's where a decision has to be made to figure out exactly what isn't playing like it should and think about if the existing attraction can be overhauled, while keeping it mostly intact, or replaced with another attraction. In the case of WoM, they decided, rightly, I would say, to replace it. You're right. It was a perfectly fine attraction, but not one that really connected on a deeper level with people in general. Where I feel they went wrong was in deciding to replace it with Test Track. I would rather they have replaced it with a new attraction based around the central ideas of Future World, which were, "Where have we come from? Where are we now? Where are we going?" That's a pretty broad theme and open to lots of varying experiences.

I'm going to disagree with you on Horizons, though. With some updates to the ride system and some extensive updating of the tech on display, design scheme, and ending films, I firmly believe it could still be going strong. Instead, we got a fun, though not really informative, space travel-themed thrill ride that makes a good many of the people who ride it nauseous.

 

[baymenxpac]

But anything has to be better than what Epcot currently is surely?

I'm not a fan of the GOTG theme but I am of the coaster. I was hoping that with the Vol 3 delay they may axe them and put in a different IP

think of it this way: i have a broken finger and it hurts so badly. surely, if i eat a candy bar, it'll be better than the pain i'm experiencing right now.

i guess? while, yeah...candy is fun to eat sometimes and objectively good, it doesn't really solve the problem of your broken finger. it's still broken, you just get a hit of pleasure around the pain.

same deal. epcot will still be a mess thematically, and from a capacity standpoint, a short coaster that will likely be in high demand doesn't solve that much, even if it'll be something new and momentarily fun to experience.

 

[DreamfinderGuy]

(sorry, not a Universe of Energy fan)

That's your opinion, I get that, but honestly if we can be real for a moment, Energy was probably the least liked pavilion of OG future world by the masses. Sure, the Radok screens were cool and the AAs were amazing (Not to mention all of the special effects that really sold it), but it sold itself based on just having Dinosaurs. I love the original Energy, but tourists don't want to sit through a bunch of movies that are really just informational films with no real entertainment factor. OG Energy was dry. Ellen had it's flaws, but at least it tried to change things for the better and add in a comedic effect. Ellen was better for the masses (I LOVED it), but it suffered from the same flaws of OG Energy, being really long with a particularly uninteresting topic. It was an overall improvement for day-guests, but it also dumbed down the purpose of the pavilion, which kinda made it particularly pointless.

 

[bcoachable]

In Disney Park management's current view (it would seem):

-Theme is less important than making money-

I get why. Money does mean a lot in this business.
But, what a short memory they seem to have.

You would have thought that the HP land would have taught a lesson or two.

I am very curious to see what Universal decides to do with their new acquisitions up the road...
Would it not be interesting for the future if they choose the reverse ideology.

 

[celluloid]

Epcot is the new dca. Guardians and Rat are akin To inflated Carsland. Everything else is a reskin or enhanced shopping or dining experience that they are hoping the flash in the pan synergy will carry the investment.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

The right solution would have been to add new attractions while updating the original EC ones. There's enough space it could have been done with some creative planning. EC could have ended up a full three day park. Something then for those who loved classic EC while also providing for others who wanted something more, IP or otherwise.

 

[VJ]

I'm actually cautiously optimistic about EPCOT.

EPCautiouslyOpTimistic

sounds about right to me

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Now, irrational EPCOT Center lover that I am, I will admit that World of Motion was not on the same level as those two rides or Spaceship Earth, but that's where a decision has to be made to figure out exactly what isn't playing like it should and think about if the existing attraction can be overhauled, while keeping it mostly intact, or replaced with another attraction. In the case of WoM, they decided, rightly, I would say, to replace it. You're right. It was a perfectly fine attraction, but not one that really connected on a deeper level with people in general. Where I feel they went wrong was in deciding to replace it with Test Track. I would rather they have replaced it with a new attraction based around the central ideas of Future World, which were, "Where have we come from? Where are we now? Where are we going?" That's a pretty broad theme and open to lots of varying experiences.

I'm going to disagree with you on Horizons, though. With some updates to the ride system and some extensive updating of the tech on display, design scheme, and ending films, I firmly believe it could still be going strong. Instead, we got a fun, though not really informative, space travel-themed thrill ride that makes a good many of the people who ride it nauseous.

For me, the concepts of both Test Track and Mission:Space are actually ok. It's the execution that was mediocre and bad, respectively. A ride with mild thrills that teaches guests something about how cars are designed and tested seems to potentially fit within the original spirit of EPCOT while recognising the need to mix-up the types of attractions on offer. I respect what you're saying, but I think that boxing attractions into the schematic you mention feeds into one of EPCOT's original problems: the repetition of the same type of experience in every ride. The problem for me with Test Track is more that the attraction is not bad, but also not great.

A ride giving guests a taste of the training that astronauts go through before going into outer space also seems like an amazing EPCOT thrill ride on paper. Again, though, I don't think the execution ever lived up to the concept. In fact, M:S orange is one ride I'll probably never go on again as it's the only ride I've ever been on anywhere that has made me feel nauseous... every single time!

That's your opinion, I get that, but honestly if we can be real for a moment, Energy was probably the least liked pavilion of OG future world by the masses. Sure, the Radok screens were cool and the AAs were amazing (Not to mention all of the special effects that really sold it), but it sold itself based on just having Dinosaurs. I love the original Energy, but tourists don't want to sit through a bunch of movies that are really just informational films with no real entertainment factor. OG Energy was dry. Ellen had it's flaws, but at least it tried to change things for the better and add in a comedic effect. Ellen was better for the masses (I LOVED it), but it suffered from the same flaws of OG Energy, being really long with a particularly uninteresting topic. It was an overall improvement for day-guests, but it also dumbed down the purpose of the pavilion, which kinda made it particularly pointless.

I do actually agree with you that the Ellen version was the more successful iteration of Energy in terms of combining education and entertainment. Overall, though, I'm not sure the pavilion ever worked. Particularly as the world started moving toward renewables, UoE's origins as an attraction sponsored by an oil company seemed increasingly obvious.

 

[mikejs78]

the attractions never had any real waits.

Two things play into this which isn't obvious at first glance:

1. Those attractions had ridiculously high capacity compared to modern attractions. Horizons was 2784 people per hour, WoM was 3240 people per hour, Imagination 2576 people per hour. Or, to put it another way - Test Track has an hourly capacity of 1200, or 37% that of WoM (WoM had 2.7 times the capacity of TT). To illustrate that difference: let's say there is no wait at WoM, but enough people are coming to the attraction in a constant stream to fully load it. That would equate to a ~102 minute wait that would build up at Test Track over the course of an hour, assuming people arrived at TT at the same rate. So to say that there were no lines back then but there are today doesn't necessarily mean a lot. WoM could have no line and still be more popular than TT with a 70 min wait.
2. There was a lot more to do at Epcot back then. First, most attractions were lengthy. So you'd spend a great deal of time in the attraction and not moving on to the next one. Plus, the post shows were actually fun and engaging. You could easily spend an hour in a pavillion, longer in ones that had multiple attractions like The Land and WoL. Add in Communicore/Innoventions, and Future World could easily consume an entire day.

 

[mikejs78]

Epcot is the new dca.

I wouldn't go that far...

 

[Demarke]

And it's a shortsighted decision. Properties come and go, and not all have staying power. Tying attractions to IPs that may or may not have staying power is risky, as you risk having an irrelevant attraction in a short time frame. Case in point: Imagination. The whole imagination institute is based on Honey I Shrunk the Kids. Now, how many millennials know that property? For Frozen and Guardians, it's hard to say if they will stand the test of time. Even FEA is showing softness with wait times far lower than they were a year ago.

Now, sometimes an attraction or land can transcend its IP (see Pandora). But with FEA and Nemo, that certainly isn't the case, and with Guardians it remains to be seen. But suffice to say, I would argue that the current planned direction of Epcot is not a good business decision - it's shortsighted and will not stand the test of time. It will make the old Epcot Center feel timeless in comparison.

Totally agree! I think The Institute may have made some sense as a reference at one point and kept some longevity if the 3D movie was still in place (so, while I think it was a profoundly poor decision, I can understand why some suit thought it made sense to center the ride around an offshoot of the film next door), but the references in the ride seem too vague (from my recollection of the feature film) to be noticeable, particularly to a new audience. Either way, without the 3D movie (which has an inherently limited shelf life to be a featured attraction), nothing makes sense about putting all your eggs for the remaining element of the pavilion in that basket in the way it was implemented. Honey I Shrunk the Kids seemed to have a possibility to have some small timeless qualities in a place like Holly wood Studios, because, what kids don't like to play around in a land of giant stuff or ride on some huge bug and see yourself on a green screen? It might even get them to watch the film later. But, if it ultimately couldn't work there, doesn't make much sense to keep it in play at Imagination.

With the original Figment, I believe they had an opportunity to have an iconic original park attraction in a similar vein to Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise, or Pirates (I could imagine a decent attempt at a Figment/Dreamfinder movie if the ride had remained unsullied). Over time, it could have had great staying power and been refreshed with minor tweaks here and there as other iconic rides have been. But they chose to do a fundamental gutting and, even when bringing Figment back, gave it a lackluster rebuild. Can you imagine the reaction if they gutted Haunted Mansion and installed Eddie Murphy's Wacky Carnival Ghost Encounter w/ Hitchhiking Ghosts!? Or if they totally gutted Pirates and had some aging comedian take you through projection screens with his smart aleck talking parrot? That's essentially what they did to the original Imagination ride.

 

[Demarke]

So why don't we see Herbie the Love Bug represented in the parks?

It used to be in the Backlot Tour if I remember correctly!

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

Epcot is the new dca. Guardians and Rat are akin To inflated Carsland. Everything else is a reskin or enhanced shopping or dining experience that they are hoping the flash in the pan synergy will carry the investment.

...not really.

The main difference between the two is that Epcot was actually amazing from the start and around 10-15 years later, things started slipping.
DCA was just a rubbish pile from the get-go and only saw some minor improvements 10-15 years later.

Personally, I'd go to current-day Epcot 100x over vs. DCA.

 

[Demarke]

I truly believe there is a difference in how Epcot is remembered based off when you visited. I went pretty solidly from 89-94, moved away and went back in 98 and felt like a lot had changed. Then I took an even longer hiatus and didn't go back until 2011. I could barely recognize it.

All that to say, if I had visited for the first time post '94, I'd probably hold a much different impression of the park than I do today.

I was kind of similar. Went 89, 95, and 97. Then made it back for the first time in 2016 and again in 2018 and was just amazed how empty everything seemed. When you have spread out pavilions, closing one (WoL) or two (Communicore/Innoventions essentially shutting down and replacing with run of the mill meet and greets and not much else) or three (UofE) and another half of one (Imagination) and another half (inside The Land) and maybe another quarter (taking out the hydrolators and some of the theming from the Sea made it look more bland than I remembered too), draws comparisons to the death throws of many shopping malls when they lose and anchor or two, then try to bandaid over some store fronts with art or displays while the old department store becomes a call center.

They've even found a way to make the jumping fountains look bleak, by taking out the greenery around them and filling it with rocks (and I swear the water was jumping less frequently than I remembered).

I get that they have to sometimes shut something down to rework or replace something, but the whole vibe seemed enormously different. And I am absolutely opposed to removing any attraction and installing a meet and greet as anything other than a temporary place holder (am I crazy or weren't we allowed to take pictures with characters as they roamed around the park way back when?). That said, I did love Soarin and am okay with TestTrack (despite having a fondness of the WoM and not understanding the hype of going 64.9 mph in a convertible) and Mission Space (assuming the stories where true that Horizons had to shut down due to a sink hole issue). I'm hopeful for GotG to be a good attraction, but that still leaves Life, upstairs Imagination, Communicore/Innoventions, and part of Land with pretty sizeable and noticeable holes that appear to be just going to waste.

Innoventions seems like an easy fix to get some futuristic stuff in there. I can't believe that Samsung or LG wouldn't pay a premium and keep an area updated with the latest in ultrathin tv's and some displays on what's coming next; or that Apple/Google/Samsung/Verizon/ATT wouldn't love to show off their latest stuff while exploring what's coming next; or that a pharmaceutical company or two wouldn't want to have some interactive displays and show off what cutting edge research and medicines they are currently working on; and the list goes on for many more sectors. My only guess is that Disney may be setting the price tag for the space too high.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

I was kind of similar. Went 89, 95, and 97. Then made it back for the first time in 2016 and again in 2018 and was just amazed how empty everything seemed. When you have spread out pavilions, closing one (WoL) or two (Communicore/Innoventions essentially shutting down and replacing with run of the mill meet and greets and not much else) or three (UofE) and another half of one (Imagination) and another half (inside The Land) and maybe another quarter (taking out the hydrolators and some of the theming from the Sea made it look more bland than I remembered too), draws comparisons to the death throws of many shopping malls when they lose and anchor or two, then try to bandaid over some store fronts with art or displays while the old department store becomes a call center.

They've even found a way to make the jumping fountains look bleak, by taking out the greenery around them and filling it with rocks (and I swear the water was jumping less frequently than I remembered).

I get that they have to sometimes shut something down to rework or replace something, but the whole vibe seemed enormously different. And I am absolutely opposed to removing any attraction and installing a meet and greet as anything other than a temporary place holder (am I crazy or weren't we allowed to take pictures with characters as they roamed around the park way back when?). That said, I did love Soarin and am okay with TestTrack (despite having a fondness of the WoM and not understanding the hype of going 64.9 mph in a convertible) and Mission Space (assuming the stories where true that Horizons had to shut down due to a sink hole issue). I'm hopeful for GotG to be a good attraction, but that still leaves Life, upstairs Imagination, Communicore/Innoventions, and part of Land with pretty sizeable and noticeable holes that appear to be just going to waste.

Innoventions seems like an easy fix to get some futuristic stuff in there. I can't believe that Samsung or LG wouldn't pay a premium and keep an area updated with the latest in ultrathin tv's and some displays on what's coming next; or that Apple/Google/Samsung/Verizon/ATT wouldn't love to show off their latest stuff while exploring what's coming next; or that a pharmaceutical company or two wouldn't want to have some interactive displays and show off what cutting edge research and medicines they are currently working on; and the list goes on for many more sectors. My only guess is that Disney may be setting the price tag for the space too high.

All this just reinforces the belief that current management has NO idea what they hold in their hands when they look at Epcot. Both Bobs are coming at it from a purely monetary stance and for them, the only thing that equals increased attendance (ie: higher revenues) is to stick Disney characters and booze festivals into every nook and cranny. They'll claim its what the public wants, collect their bonus checks, and then take a vacation.

 

[brb1006]

I was kind of similar. Went 89, 95, and 97. Then made it back for the first time in 2016 and again in 2018 and was just amazed how empty everything seemed. When you have spread out pavilions, closing one (WoL) or two (Communicore/Innoventions essentially shutting down and replacing with run of the mill meet and greets and not much else) or three (UofE) and another half of one (Imagination) and another half (inside The Land) and maybe another quarter (taking out the hydrolators and some of the theming from the Sea made it look more bland than I remembered too), draws comparisons to the death throws of many shopping malls when they lose and anchor or two, then try to bandaid over some store fronts with art or displays while the old department store becomes a call center.

They've even found a way to make the jumping fountains look bleak, by taking out the greenery around them and filling it with rocks (and I swear the water was jumping less frequently than I remembered).

I get that they have to sometimes shut something down to rework or replace something, but the whole vibe seemed enormously different. And I am absolutely opposed to removing any attraction and installing a meet and greet as anything other than a temporary place holder (am I crazy or weren't we allowed to take pictures with characters as they roamed around the park way back when?). That said, I did love Soarin and am okay with TestTrack (despite having a fondness of the WoM and not understanding the hype of going 64.9 mph in a convertible) and Mission Space (assuming the stories where true that Horizons had to shut down due to a sink hole issue). I'm hopeful for GotG to be a good attraction, but that still leaves Life, upstairs Imagination, Communicore/Innoventions, and part of Land with pretty sizeable and noticeable holes that appear to be just going to waste.

Innoventions seems like an easy fix to get some futuristic stuff in there. I can't believe that Samsung or LG wouldn't pay a premium and keep an area updated with the latest in ultrathin tv's and some displays on what's coming next; or that Apple/Google/Samsung/Verizon/ATT wouldn't love to show off their latest stuff while exploring what's coming next; or that a pharmaceutical company or two wouldn't want to have some interactive displays and show off what cutting edge research and medicines they are currently working on; and the list goes on for many more sectors. My only guess is that Disney may be setting the price tag for the space too high.

About the topic and meet and greets VS the roaming characters complete with pictures taken. The days of roaming characters at the park really added more life and fun to the park experience during the 1970's and 1980's. You never know which character you might encounter while you're either heading to another attraction or waiting in line. Plus it gave characters a bigger opportunity to interact and have fun with guests compared to now where you have only a few seconds to interact and then leave M&G line.

 

[Stripes]

Personally, I'd go to current-day Epcot 100x over vs. DCA.

Modern-day DCA is a great park. It has short comings still, but myself and my family continue to have a much better time at DCA vs DL.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Love those Aristocat characters! Both super cool and the stuff nightmares are made of.

They also seem quite civilised, greeting the guests with a handshake.

 

[Demarke]

About the topic and meet and greets VS the roaming characters complete with pictures taken. The days of roaming characters at the park really added more life and fun to the park experience during the 1970's and 1980's. You never know which character you might encounter while you're either heading to another attraction or waiting in line. Plus it gave characters a bigger opportunity to interact and have fun with guests compared to now where you have only a few seconds to interact and then leave M&G line.

That really stuck out to me when I first came back in 2016, I saw Goofy walking by in Hollywood Studios and had a camera handy and asked for a quick pic but a handler made sure he continued on without breaking stride. At first I figured he must be time-pressed to get somewhere, but then started to notice that no characters (other than an occasional Country Bear) we’re stopping or interacting anywhere other than designated spots with handlers and roped out lines.

I get the benefit of having an orderly process and making it easier for the Photopass photographers. But it just takes the spontaneity out of it when you are just repeating the same process: a candid picture as you walk up the character, a picture hugging the character, and a picture or two standing next to them smiling at the camera. Next, repeat. Next, repeat.

My one indoor meet and greet I’ve done was Mickey, Minnie, & Goofy at Epcot because a fastpass popped up so I figured it wouldn’t take longer than 10-15 minutes. Wrong! It was roughly 45 minutes in the fastpass line, I know I was a lot less excited by that time and can only imagine how long the standard line waited.

What’s more magical for a kid: a) lots of characters walking around the park and some excitement over what characters you might see, when, and where and probably having some more interesting interactions, or b) go wait in line for an hour, have the same interaction and get 3-4 pictures in front of a backdrop that capture you doing the same things with each character in essentially the same way down an assembly line of characters.

 

[DisneyGentlemanV2.0]

... draws comparisons to the death throws of many shopping malls when they lose and anchor or two, then try to bandaid over some store fronts with art or displays while the old department store becomes a call center.

So true!