Bloggers and Podcasters need to be controlled

[RSoxNo1]

I'm sorry but no.

We have a freedom of the press and freedom of speech in this country. I may not approve of what they say or do but they have the right to do it.

So you can just STFU right there.

(That being said, Steve runs an excellent site and has always allowed commentors to say what they feel without fear of censorship)

My point is that there is deception out there and I don't like it. People hide behind the cloud of free speech whenever anybody dares question what someone says. Yes, there is freedom of speech but there should also be penalties for deliberately deceiving the public.

 

[GrumpyFan]

We have a freedom of the press and freedom of speech in this country. I may not approve of what they say or do but they have the right to do it.

This doesn't have anything to do with freedom of press/speech. Sure, they have those rights, and I don't think anybody's debating that or saying they don't, it's the undisclosed pretense in which its being done that people are upset about.

 

[WDW1974]

You're right. I should rephrase. I ain't cheap or easy. The little trinkets, tokens, and morsels that so easily "buy" the attention the mouse desires aren't even close to me. I'm not that easily impressed. Celebs, media hoop-la's, dangling of names, etc. aren't my deal either. The rest of the world may place some people on pedestals but I've never really gotten into that stuff. Of course there's fascinating characters I've read or heard that I'd love to sit & talk or have a drink with but not if it entailed selling of any part of me. That would kill the meaning from the getgo. And, yeah, as a mom there's prob'ly some point at which big opportunities for my 2 boys could bring me to do a lot of things but then, knowing the young men I've labored to rear, they'd kick my butt if I compromised personal integrity on any level for any reason. Ultimately, I don't hold my opinions or rumblings in high enough regard to think anyone would give two sh*ts or a happy meal about what I think or say. I'm just here to amuse myself, I think. Lol!

And plenty of us find you plenty amusing!

FWIW, I think you illustrated my point quite well. Precisely because I have traveled in certain Spirited circles and had access to many different kinds of people from celebrities to actors and musicians to artists to writers to moguls to basketball stars, I am not impressed by fame or money. I am impressed by the character of an individual.

I couldn't care less that @Eddie Sotto was an Imagineer. I respect the man as an artist and think he is very talented and would love to discuss the various people we know in person at some point, but I won't join his thread and drool because ... well, that's not me. And that's how I feel about people when I meet them. If you impress me as member of the human species and are rich and successful and famous, well, that's great. But if you're a scumbag than I don't hold you in as high esteem as I do Jesus (my lawn man ... yes, that's his name and he's a terrific guy even if we don't always understand each other).

But bloggers are ordinary people. Rest assured, they don't travel in my circles and they don't know the people I do. And if they happen to meet one at a Disney junket, it's for 2-5 minutes in a controlled atmosphere and then it is over. But they get high on the perceived power of being at these events and that is why they will allow themselves to be manipulated by the likes of The Disney Parks Blog team, WDW Press and Publicity and Disney's social media consultants. It's all a game with them to be top of the hill and get the most freebies one can ... and the ing matches they have are like watching a trainwreck. ... Mongello actually thought he was too good to bowl with this other blogger the other night ...and Disney's blogging reps handled him like royalty?!?!

What a mess ... what a mess ... and they seem oblivious to it ... or maybe not so much

 

[WDW1974]

Reminds me of this movie called " The Joneses".

I keep hearing about this movie and I really must see it before a friend tosses me off the nearest cruise ship she can find.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't get it! Why the big fuss? I mean, so what? Lou got mentioned in a comic. Good for him. He's clearly made a name for himself (or at least connections) and his business by doing what he's doing in the manner in which he's done it. So he has a "spin" (if you will) on the way he sees things that's maybe just a little bit off from the reality of apparently quite a few here in this community. Again, so what? This is the path he has chosen to take to promote himself and his business. Personally, I'm okay with it. I like his "spin" if that's what you want to call it. I like his optimism and way of looking at things, but I take it all with a grain of salt and listen not only to his perspective but others' too like Pete Werner over at the other Disney community, who doesn't pull ANY punches whatsoever.

I've wrestled with this myself in my own writings. Do I criticize the very company I love and who I would like to be a part of, or do I paint a pretty picture and pretend that everything is perfect? The answer I've come up with for myself is to try and walk a balance line where I avoid being critical of announcements and attractions being built, and wait until they're actually opened, then I will offer an honest opinion and perhaps a suggestion of how I would have done it differently. If I don't have an opinion on how to improve it, then I try to avoid it altogether.

I think each of us in the community has to weigh this question for ourselves, and how we answer it is really our business and nobody else's. If your particular slant is appealing, then people will listen to what you have to say, if not then you will fade away or have just a small following. Regardless, I think the community has room for multiple views each with their own following.

Um ... 'cuse me for asking since there are apporximately 7,876,401 Disney bloggers/podcasters/Lifestylers out there. But do you have a blog/site?

 

[WDW1974]

Whenever you hear a podcast spout about the number of downloads, it doesn't mean much of anything unless we're talking serious numbers. The Marc Marons and Corollas of the world are examples of turning it into a true broadcast with large numbers.

So, PODCAST X had 9k downloads in a week. Well, when I hear that, I think about how I have all my podcasts downloaded to each computer... Well, I've got three of 'em downloading podcasts. I might have listened to a podcast once and now I'm a subscriber, but never have listened to it again... I'm again in the count. As you know, the importance that many of them think they have is actually about nothing in reality.

There is a certain podcast that I used to actually really enjoy about the parks, but as this person gained access and most notably, listeners, his tone has changed... And, no it's not this Mongello. This guy definitely knows the hand that feeds him and walks so carefully in what he says... When I heard him fawning over the premise of FastPass+ a few weeks ago in the "news," I had enough.

Numbers skewing is as ridiculous as ever. NBC loves to hype a show like 'The Voice' with over 100 and something million viewers. Well, yup, that's the cumulative number of the whole season. Once you break it down, not so impressive.

Exactly, networks are scrambling to figure out what viewng patterns mean now with so many folks time-shifting programs through DVR usage and often skipping thru the commercials. A few years ago, the standard was changed from just live watching to the Live -Plus 3 model that is now used and can add four million viewers to top-rated shows like NCIS, Modern Family, The Big Bang Theory, Person of Interest (featuring my buddy, the great Michael Emerson) ... now, though, that model seems antiquated and many in the business want to go to a Live-Plus 7 model, which likely would provide more accurate data, but leaves open plenty of holes and questions for advertisers.

Now, if network television is having these issues where you actually have legit methods for agregating data on viewership, what the hell does it mean for podcasts ... if you download something, but never listen or listen to 10-minutes of a three-hour rant on Drinking Around EPCOT, where is the true value of that? ... Same with metrics for clicking on blogs.

And what exactly does ANY of it mean for Disney's botton line beyond what Duncan Wardle believes or the folks at Voce Communications tell him?

Very interesting questions, but it's late and I'm probably overtired and intoxicated by new car smell and likely should head to bed.

 

[WDW1974]

Ricky seems pretty balanced. He is honest and provides his own opinion, but he's not terribly critical like some others. Lou on the other hand, is as you say, "a giant infomercial", but I know that and still enjoy his show as well as others who tend to go the other way.

I don't listen to either. I was a guest in the audience when @Lee made his podcasting debut (so what if it ruined dinner, I'm sure Tim will take me out in the future to make up for it!) and came up with the greatest euphemism for self massage for fanbois ever in 'Lubricating the yeti'' (I do believe @EPCOT Explorer had to phsyically restrain me from jumping into a nearby fountain in laughter after hearing that one).

I might just be too old (although I don't think so), but podcasts just aren't my thing.

That said, I've read Ricky Tweeting about not wanting to be negative and avoiding those stories, which to me is unethical, especially since he writes pieces for that bastion of fine journalism -- FOX News. I could probably take that away from him, but it would pay way too little for my tastes.

And Lou is a giant infomercial. Again, my issue is that they're not presented that way. Lou presents his info like it's the gospel. WDW has never been better. New Fantasyland is the best thing Disney has built in the MK ever. And UNI doesn't exist.

The fact he comes off as a total sleezy snake oil salesman doesn't help his cause. I love his daily affirmations, does he view himself as a short, Italian version of Stuart Smalley? You're good enough, you're smart enough and gosh darn it if you say enough good things about Disney they'll fly you to Hawaii for a week and Anaheim for a week and put you on their cruise ships and all that good stuff.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't think people are critical of his "style" per se or his success ... I think it is as simple as this ... it's all about the fact that he promotes himself as a "fan" when in reality he is an "employee" ... that should be made clear. It should also be made clear why he is allowed to conduct private tours for profit on Disney property.

Basically, this is not about jealousy, or even hating him or wanting him to go away ... we just want transparency and honesty.

Amen, brother!

 

[WDW1974]

I don't know why Lou's name appears, although I suspect that he and the writer, Dan Slott, know each other, and Slott did it as a tribute to or favor for a friend. In that event, it wouldn't be all that surprising that the reference completely went over the heads of the book's editors, who are unlikely to be as familiar with WDW Radio as this site's posters are.

Still, including the reference seems spectacularly ill-advised, coming in such a relatively important issue of the book, and in such an obvious fashion. If it's solely a coincidence that Lou's business happens to center on Disney parks, which are part of the same business empire that owns Marvel... then it's certainly a very happy accident, or a very unhappy one, depending on who you are -- and whether you want to encourage or discourage the perception that Lou is an employee of Disney, and that his words and opinions reflect those of the company's.

Oh so we have a comics geek in our midst, how nice. Don't feel ashamed. We have fanbois that are into their plush here too!

I do agree that the most likely scenario, but not the only one as @nytimez pointed out, is that the writer knew Lou and tossed in the shout out. But the issue is so ethically challenged, and the writer may not have known or been able to figure it out, because of Lou's lightning rod position as the ultimate WDW Social Media (Do they have an awards show for that? What would the statue be?) ... I'm reasonably sure that Tommy, Blondie and Crazy Gary and the gang want no part of 'splaining the free pub in a Disney pub, but how do you stop it when they just keep stepping into it deeper?

As an aside, I wonder if Lou realizes they sell these comics over at IOA. Where Spidey lives in O-Town.

 

[WDW1974]

I'm sorry but no.

We have a freedom of the press and freedom of speech in this country. I may not approve of what they say or do but they have the right to do it.

So you can just STFU right there.

(That being said, Steve runs an excellent site and has always allowed commentors to say what they feel without fear of censorship)

I'm a little confused. What does freedom of the press and freedom of speech have to do with bloggers and ethics?
Did I miss something? Seriously.

As to this site, while it is an excellent site, I wouldn't say that things don't get censored. There was a time when I thought every time I posted 'the Mom' got an alert even at 3:49 a.m and woke up and ran to the keyboard. Some of it I have understood, some of it I haven't. I once left for a few months in anger after a thread on Shanghai DL disappeared in the middle of the night since I have lived in China multiple times and worked on some huge projects over there and even know some of the folks on the Chinese side of SDL/Shendi, I felt (correctly) that I could add a perspective to the resort being built that no one else here could. But some folks got political and someone decided it would be better to not have that discussion. I disagree and feel there will be more of those as SDL construction finally goes vertical this coming summer.

 

[WDW1974]

Ohhhhhhh if you think thats the worst that comes out of my mouth, you've never stepped in front of my lens and blocked me during a football game.....

Dave, I have a feeling we knew each other in another lifetime, brother ...

And I know the Mom. We've met. Many years back.

@Lee tells me he met the charmer once ... I just want to know if she is as hot in real life as in her avatar!

We should have MAGICal meets. I wouldn't come. I'd just stalk them from a distance and try and take pics of y'all when you weren't looking (oh wait, that's what a local crazy blogger does ... nevermind!)

 

[WDW1974]

@RSoxNo1 Good show on this topic, by the way.

One thing I am glad you brought out was how Lou will tell people he doesn't receive anything from the company, yet its pretty well known that he has been comped in a variety of places. I guess his justification is he gets nothing formal but a comp here and there from managers "acting on their own initiative" are just people being "friendly" ...

I didn't know @RSoxNo1 did a show on social media. That might actually be worth a listen! (for once!)

Lou is flat out lying if he says he never receives anything. Is he denying he got a free Dream media cruise? Or a discount on the following one? is he denying that he was flown out to Honolulu on Disney's dime and placed at the Aulani for a week all expenses paid? Is he denying that Disney flew him to Anaheim for the DCA 2.0 launch?

Let's forget about all the things his posse gets just because he's a loudmouthed self-promoter who is known all over WDW and can make $200 bar tabs vanish ... I'm talking what Disney is giving him personally thru Social Media and Press and Publicity. Is he really denying that he's gotten all of this?

 

[WDW1974]

What a joke.
He and his people get comped on a regular basis, and treated somewhat like "real media" by WDW.

I say "somewhat" because they credential them for events and involve them in all the media activities they have.
But...at the same time, they allow him far more access to the property for business purposes than normal "real media".

Ask @Disneyhead'71 if he would be allowed to go shoot video in the MK as part of his job. Bet not...at least not without serious Disney PR approval and monitoring.

As for the comic, approval had to come from way up the ladder, or the writer is likely gonna feel some heat.

All of this. All of it. ... But, hey, it's 4 a.m. and I can only sleep until about noonish so I am off ... looking forward to lots of interesting feedback here and maybe even some 'likes' from my passive aggressive No. 2 Disney minion of hate and evil and beating the fanbois and feeding them dog food in their cages ... that would be @Lee.

Happy Dec. 29th all!

 

[draybook]

Pardon me for asking, but could someone explain to me the importance of these bloggers and podcasters in relation to our lives? I'm trying to figure out what all of the ruckus is about. Thanks!

 

[RSoxNo1]

I didn't know @RSoxNo1 did a show on social media. That might actually be worth a listen! (for once!)

Lou is flat out lying if he says he never receives anything. Is he denying he got a free Dream media cruise? Or a discount on the following one? is he denying that he was flown out to Honolulu on Disney's dime and placed at the Aulani for a week all expenses paid? Is he denying that Disney flew him to Anaheim for the DCA 2.0 launch?

Let's forget about all the things his posse gets just because he's a loudmouthed self-promoter who is known all over WDW and can make $200 bar tabs vanish ... I'm talking what Disney is giving him personally thru Social Media and Press and Publicity. Is he really denying that he's gotten all of this?

We live to impress you.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Pardon me for asking, but could someone explain to me the importance of these bloggers and podcasters in relation to our lives? I'm trying to figure out what all of the ruckus is about. Thanks!

If you find what they write or record entertaining than they play a certain role in your life.

 

[PhotoDave219]

This doesn't have anything to do with freedom of press/speech. Sure, they have those rights, and I don't think anybody's debating that or saying they don't, it's the undisclosed pretense in which its being done that people are upset about.

Transparency, I get that. I've always been ethical and so have the organizations I work for an associate myself with. I dont take free meals unless everyone else gets it free (I will take water), I dont take expensive free gifts in exchange for my coverage (The Russell Athletic hoodie was nice last night but thats not expensive), I don't pay for access or any of the other number of unethical things that seem to be your general gripes these days.

Undisclosed pretense happens all the time - MSNBC & FOX News are teaching "citizen journalists" and bloggers alike that such behavior is somehow acceptable when its clearly not.

You really want to hold these people accountable for their actions? Go for their advertising & income. Actually write letters to Meg Crofton's office. Do more than about it on the internet. Because this does come down to Freedom of Speech; these people can say & do pretty much what they want. If they're misrepresnting themselves, theres not much that can be done about it unless the readership holds them accountable.

 

[draybook]

If you find what they write or record entertaining than they play a certain role in your life.

Ok, I wasn't being sarcastic or anything, just wondering. I don't really read any blogs or listen to any podcasts. Not just Disney related, but at all.

 

[derekburgan]

Knowing how the comic industry works, even for a big title like Spider-man, surely the writer just told the letterer (Chris Eliopolous, huge theme park fan and clearly a friend of Lou) to put in "press conference-like" yellings in the word balloons. For things like that the letterers get a pretty wide birth as long as they don't go crazy. Artists get a lot of discretion in the book as well, as long as they get the main points across.

This is not to say there isn't a need for better disclosure by the theme park media. For many it's not that their opinions are being bought, it's about how little they are selling them for.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Pardon me for asking, but could someone explain to me the importance of these bloggers and podcasters in relation to our lives? I'm trying to figure out what all of the ruckus is about. Thanks!

Some of are shareholders and interested in how The Walt Disney Company spends money. There are also concerns regarding Disney's image.