Blackbeard added to pirates

[wolf359]

I'm really looking forward to seeing the new mist projection, and I might be the only one but I hope Blackbeard stays around for a while longer than just the summer. I'd rather see him than Davy Jones now that we have an alternative.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

Absolutley loved the first one. Thought 2 & 3 were somewhat entertaining but just overly plotted and complicated.

You should watch the second and third movie directly after the first, make it a PotC-Sunday afternoon and evening. If the three movies are watched in a row and on the same day the second and third part have a kind of stronger effect than seen isolated on different days. We recognized that effect several times.

 

[raiden]

*Raises flame shield and puts on troll armor*

Let me begin this by saying- If you love On Stranger Tides, i'm happy for you and respect that opinion. My opinion is not intended to invalidate yours. If you disagree and enjoyed it, more power to you. I'll give my semi-review and thoughts below.

I saw OST yesterday. My verdict was that it was somewhat average. Not great, but not bad. Kind of tethering on the edge of being just ok, though it's a fun enough summer flick. Mindless enjoyment. My biggest issue is that it doesn't feel like a POTC movie. I might applaud it for feeling different and trying to be its own story without being tied to the other 3, but i didn't like how it was handled. No sea battles either, i miss the large-scale battles at sea.

I also was very underwhelmed at Blackbeard. He was underdeveloped and bland with way too little meaningful dialog. His ship and voodoo power over it was cool, but it never explains it properly as far as i can tell, like how he got ahold of such power and became such a menace. Also, after experiencing Barbossa and Davy Jones from the other movies, they were far more creepy and fascinating villains IMO. Davy Jones in particular felt like the epitome of a threat you could create. And for "the pirate that all pirates fear", i didn't really grasp or feel that sense of fear myself. All other villains in the series felt much more interesting and creepy, even the minor ones like Pintel and Ragetti from the first movie. Heck, i was more interested in Lord Beckett.

AVAST, THERE BE SPOILERS AHEAD. SO YE COME SEEKING SPOILERS ABOUT SALTY OL' PIRATES EH? YOU'VE COME TO THE PROPER PLACE. PAST THIS POINT, IT BE TOO LATE TO ALTER COURSE NOW MATIES! THESE BE THE LAST FRIENDLY WORDS YE'LL HEAR.



I also find myself missing the now dead or gone characters. And find myself uninterested for the most part in the new ones. Will Turner and Elizabeth Swann are no longer a part of the story. Pintel, Ragetti, Cotton (and Parrot), and Marty are apparently all dead by the time the movie begins. Tia Dalma is obviously not there anymore (fair enough of course, but would have been neat to see her in a temporary form again). Governor Swann is dead, as is James Norrington. So Jack Sparrow, Gibbs, and Barbossa are the only remaining characters from the prior films (nice to see Captain Teague, but he's gone before you know it). All returning characters do well as usual, though i feel Gibbs was under-played.

I do want to mention- it's interesting to see Jack more open about being a nice guy now. Several times during the movie, he takes an altruistic route and helps his friends/companions without a second thought. Or he'll give them advice on situations to better benefit them. He's much clearer with his moral sense than he was in previous films. His manner hasn't changed, but he's a little more outwardly caring this time.

In terms of new characters, mostly very bland. I actually disliked Angelica outright. Attractive though she may be, she feels useless and doesn't really contribute anything besides present a swashbuckling love interest for Jack. On top of that, she comes off as very unintelligent, simple minded, and childish in the end. She's Blackbeard's daughter and constantly tries to soften his heart and convince him that he has good in him, an effort that is obviously going nowhere from the beginning (and a fact Jack constantly reminds her of). She even offers to die for him in the end. He takes her up on that offer without a bit of remorse, and she STILL thinks he's worth saving. I'll also mention that in the following scenes with Jack, she comes off as very weak and childish towards the one who saved her. I detest her character. For a so called "tough female lead", she acts weak minded and never really contributes much to the story. I'd say she degenerates and gets worse as a character over the course of the movie, starting out decent and getting horrible. Elizabeth Swann, whatever people may think about her being annoying (and her actress), was at least a strong character who proves herself to be very useful and clever minded when the need arises.

As for other characters, i sort of liked the missionary guy Philip. Nice to see a different sort of character in the film. Though his character was severely underutilized and his development a bit too sudden. His fate was pretty neat. The mermaid Syrena is uninteresting, i didn't feel she contributed much beyond a plot device and love interest (she shows no emotion and has barely any dialog). No development. Scrum i also felt bland and useless, a poor replacement for the supporting pirates in the previous films (Cotton/Marty/Ragetti/Pintel). I didn't care for the zombies, how they looked or acted. As the evil henchmen, they're undewhelming after coming off invincible skeleton pirates from Curse of the Black Pearl or the sea creature mutants from the other two movies.

So as for the story and action, average. The action was much better in previous films. Fight scenes were sub-par and choreography in sword fights was severely lacking. The best i can say about the action was Jack himself. His fights weren't great, but he himself remains the same and he always steals the scene with his antics. His escape scenes are always fun, and he's still as mad as ever with his complex plans. The story isn't bad, but it could and should have been far better. I feel the journey was lacking interesting locations. The highlight of the locations was a scene with the skeletal remains of Ponce de León in a bed, a tribute to a famous scene in the Disneyland version of the Pirates of the Caribbean ride. I also enjoyed the mermaid attack scene and Blackbeard's control over the Queen Anne's Revenge.

Overall, i found this movie kind of bland with some fun highlights. For me, i'd say it's the worst. Not terrible or bad, just average. A great concept with promising characters, the movie feels rushed. It lacks the great fight choreography of the previous ones, the interesting supporting characters, the awesome locations, and the sea battles (or any epic battles). The execution feels lackluster. Heck, i even feel the music isn't as good. I'm throwing my hat in with some of the naysayers. I'm no critic either. Just a random fan. The ride is among my favorites and i like all the previous movies (some better than others). But i'd have to say this one is a step down from previous ones.

Anyways, my two cents. If you liked it, that's just fine by me. I will watch it again when it comes to bluray or DVD to give a second opinion. I'd not recommend anyone stay away from it just because of my opinion to be honest. Though i had issues with it, fans seem to really enjoy it so it may just be that i'm weird that way.

Very accurate and truthful review. Pretty much the way I feel about it. I wanted to love the film but its okay.

 

[WaltDis4Life]

My intention was *not* to insult here....my appologies to those that took it that way....especially Mansion Butler.

my point was that third movie, plot-wise, Was a very complex movie....and most people I meet that complain about it do not take that into consideration before they blast the movie as being the worst of the three.

Those same people are generally the same people that go "the first one ruled, the second and third sucked" Your Roger Ebert types are also the first to come out and lament the fact that none of the POTC movies hold a candle to the first.... Including the new one...what they fail to recognize is that the second and third outgrossed the first significantly. Worldwide gross of dead mans chest was 1.065B....worldwide gross of At Worlds End was 963M....Curse of the black pearl took in 655M. I don't know....if I were a movie exec, I'd be going "hey our model needs to be more like dead mans chest and at worlds end" Movie Critics don't pay the bills, movie goers do...

I still think you need to use your own judgment when seeing movies.....and i hope you dont take offense to this suggestion. Roger Ebert's review of Stranger Tides is so far off the mark that I wondered out loud if he and I saw the same film.

And for the record, I know Gene Siskel is dead....I was merely using his name (along with Eberts) to exemplify the quintessential movie reviewing dolt....

I'd say the mentality behind the revenue is more, "Hey! Curse of the Black Pearl was great, you have to come see the new one Joe! How can Disney go wrong with another?!" Then it went into, "Meh, Dead Man's Chest was entertaining. Joe, I know you weren't a fan, I'll tell you how it is when I get back." That being said, Ebert is a joke to the film community.:lol: Before I derail ANOTHER thread... I actually don't have a problem with Blackbeard appearing in the waterfall, especially considering the way things play out in the movie. His ghostly appearance and the scenes following it are pretty well explained within the movie, and casual park-goers who have seen the movie will make some sort of connection. Though, I must say, I do prefer the original ride, before the movie tie-in, and even more so before the Boy Scouts of the Caribbean.

 

[disneyonmymind]

Glorified commercials or not, I kinda love the little changes they add to rides to keep them fresh (or the huge changes in WOC's case!) :sohappy:

 

[Jpfan4ever]

Since this thread has kinda gone different Tides, I thought I would just post my thoughts on Pirates 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP1NSmXHHYo

I loved it, and I think it was a great addition to the series!

-Chris

 

[PirateFrank]

I warn of spoilers as well....I may mention things that would be considered plot or character revealing. Be warned!

No sea battles either, i miss the large-scale battles at sea.

This was by design. There were a handful of articles that discussed that they were going to purposely scale back the on-water footage in an effort to make it a financially leaner film....since their budget was stripped by TPTB. At Worlds End had a massive budget as a result of the excessive water scenes (which are significantly more expensive than the land-based scenes).

Having said that, I think that they did a good job with what they had....

I also was very underwhelmed at Blackbeard. He was underdeveloped and bland with way too little meaningful dialog. His ship and voodoo power over it was cool, but it never explains it properly as far as i can tell, like how he got ahold of such power and became such a menace. Also, after experiencing Barbossa and Davy Jones from the other movies, they were far more creepy and fascinating villains IMO. Davy Jones in particular felt like the epitome of a threat you could create. And for "the pirate that all pirates fear", i didn't really grasp or feel that sense of fear myself. All other villains in the series felt much more interesting and creepy, even the minor ones like Pintel and Ragetti from the first movie. Heck, i was more interested in Lord Beckett.

I actually have a few gripes with the movie, despite my significantly positive feeling on it. This is one them and you stated it above perfectly. I thought Ian McShane's Blackbeard, while a good overall villain, paled in comparison to Davy Jones and Barbosa. In fact, I got goosebumps at the very end of this film when Barbosa did what he did...while it was cool to see Geoffrey Rush do a different take on Hector Barbosa, it really was amazing to watch him don the old gear and go (paraphrase) 'to hell with my privateer contract, onward to tortuga' (it also creates a great possibility that Barbosa can be a true villain again in the 5th movie, provided they film decide to film it)

I also find myself missing the now dead or gone characters. And find myself uninterested for the most part in the new ones. Will Turner and Elizabeth Swann are no longer a part of the story.

I think you will get different feelings on this., as some people love will/liz other's hate em. I think Will and Elizabeth's arc ran its course. While I would love to see a cameo of Will as the new 'davy jones' sometime in a future movie....I think having any sort of depth with those characters is going to be counter productive.

Also, this movie was again, by design, in that it was very Jack-centric. The feeling was that the public wanted a Jack movie...not a Jack, Will and Elizabeth movie. So writing out Will and Elizabeth made sense.

Pintel, Ragetti, Cotton (and Parrot), and Marty are apparently all dead by the time the movie begins.

Oh, I think there's an ingenious way to bring them all back for a 5th movie...and I hope the Ted Elliot and Terry Rosio consider this if they start writing a 5th script....

Think about it this way, Hector Barbosa escaped Blackbeard's attack by severing his own leg off. But when Jack looked into the bottle, he saw little jack (the monkey) alive and well in there. Perhaps the rest of the crew is also alive and well in there? It would be a fantastic plot device (once Jack figures out how to get the pearl back out) for Jack to have a ready made crew on the ship....with all of them very ed at Barbosa for abandoning them. They have a bone to pick with Barbosa....all while Angelica is sitting on that island sticking splinters into the doll....there's LOTS of good potential in a 5th film.

though i feel Gibbs was under-played.

I agree, I would have been a little happier with a little more Joshamee Gibbs. But the fact that he's in the movie and he recovers the BP for Jack. That works for me.

I do want to mention- it's interesting to see Jack more open about being a nice guy now.....

If you read the Young Jack Sparrow books by Robb Kidd. you'll note that Jack's character is a chaotic good (shameless D&D reference) character. Although I haven't read it, the novel "The Price of Freedom" by AC Crispin will likely portray the same character He struggles with putting up a good act, but at the end of the day, he's going to do the right thing. This was exemplified in all 4 movies....He likes to put up a good show, but his character is not ruthless....cunning yes, manipulative yes, ruthless no.

Perhaps, since Jack's actions at the end of the movie, regarding Teach and Angelica, were so pivotal...that's why you think this. But I think Jack has always been this way.

In terms of new characters, mostly very bland. I actually disliked Angelica outright.

Then the writers did a good job. I think that's what her character was supposed to do....I think you were supposed to go "Damn, what a ! Hot!!...but still a !

Fight scenes were sub-par and choreography in sword fights was severely lacking. The best i can say about the action was Jack himself.

Interesting. I had exactly the opposite reaction. I thought the sword choreography was spot on...and the best of the other three movies, especially the first. Perhaps not as drastic a difference as the two Vader-ObiWann fights in SW-IV vs SW-III...but I thought there was a significant difference, none the less.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I think you will get different feelings on this., as some people love will/liz other's hate em. I think Will and Elizabeth's arc ran its course. While I would love to see a cameo of Will as the new 'davy jones' sometime in a future movie....I think having any sort of depth with those characters is going to be counter productive.

Also, this movie was again, by design, in that it was very Jack-centric. The feeling was that the public wanted a Jack movie...not a Jack, Will and Elizabeth movie. So writing out Will and Elizabeth made sense.

I know what you mean. And i do accept that Will and Liz will not be able to return (unless it's a cameo role or something). I should have clarified, it's more the doing away with the supporting crew members, and the lack of decent new characters. Perhaps i could have forgiven the lack of Pintel/Ragetti had Scrum been interesting. I found him not interesting though. I liked Philip, but we don't see enough of him for me to get attached to him and his development was abrupt and rushed. His very existence and clash with Blackbeard basically went nowhere. I didn't like Syrena (or whatever her name was either), bland.

This was by design. There were a handful of articles that discussed that they were going to purposely scale back the on-water footage in an effort to make it a financially leaner film....since their budget was stripped by TPTB. At Worlds End had a massive budget as a result of the excessive water scenes (which are significantly more expensive than the land-based scenes).

I kind of figured the budget was less. Felt that way to me overall. But i still miss them. Don't get me wrong, sea battles can be OVERDONE just as much as underdone, i had an issue with DMC having too many Kraken encounters. But there were none here and it sort of starved me of them.

Oh, I think there's an ingenious way to bring them all back for a 5th movie...and I hope the Ted Elliot and Terry Rosio consider this if they start writing a 5th script....

Think about it this way, Hector Barbosa escaped Blackbeard's attack by severing his own leg off. But when Jack looked into the bottle, he saw little jack (the monkey) alive and well in there. Perhaps the rest of the crew is also alive and well in there? It would be a fantastic plot device (once Jack figures out how to get the pearl back out) for Jack to have a ready made crew on the ship....with all of them very ed at Barbosa for abandoning them. They have a bone to pick with Barbosa....all while Angelica is sitting on that island sticking splinters into the doll....there's LOTS of good potential in a 5th film.

As much as i'd like to believe this to be true, i have a pretty good reason why Jack the Monkey may have survived and no one else did- He's undead. Cursed with the Aztec gold from the first film, he cannot die. The other crew members however, are mortal and perfectly able to die (the ones that were previously undead had their curse lifted). So even though Jack the Monkey survived, everyone else probably perished. It seems likely that Blackbeard would have made sure to kill everyone he could before taking the ship anyways.

If you read the Young Jack Sparrow books by Robb Kidd. you'll note that Jack's character is a chaotic good (shameless D&D reference) character.

I actually read a few synopses for these books. I see what you mean about Jack being altruistic. But he doesn't always show it in the films as much. He's less sarcastic about it now and much more open about his inherent honor and goodness. Of course, we also have to remember that he went through a lot right before the first movie, having been betrayed and stranded on an island and had his ship stolen. Might have hardened him more, and took him a while to thaw out a bit.

Then the writers did a good job. I think that's what her character was supposed to do....I think you were supposed to go "Damn, what a ! Hot!!...but still a !

Actually, i got the part. But i just don't think she's a good character. She's weak and adds very little to the plot. I didn't get any of that "tough female lead" thing they were teasing us with in the interviews and trailers. What i did get was an immature brat with little purpose. I found her stupid in a literal sense and not a good judge of character. It wasn't a dislike for her as a "what a " sense. I found her uninteresting and not worth anyone's time. Again, started out somewhat strong and interesting, with a badass side. But she just degenerated into a dumb, useless, and obnoxious immature whiner. If that's what the writers were going for, i understand but don't have to enjoy it. I like a if played right, but she didn't feel right to me... :veryconfu

 

[PirateFrank]

As much as i'd like to believe this to be true, i have a pretty good reason why Jack the Monkey may have survived and no one else did- He's undead. Cursed with the Aztec gold from the first film, he cannot die. The other crew members however, are mortal and perfectly able to die (the ones that were previously undead had their curse lifted). So even though Jack the Monkey survived, everyone else probably perished. It seems likely that Blackbeard would have made sure to kill everyone he could before taking the ship anyways.

Crap! I was hoping no one would catch that one flaw in my logic! Seriously though, it could go either way....

and if they chose to bring back Pinel, Rigetti, Cotton, Marty, etc...they'd have a built in plot device in that they'd all want Barbossa for abandoning him. It's perfect.

I think it all depends on whether they can convince the actors back, and whether they chose to utilize the plot device....but regardless, I do agree that Jack being cursed is a very good reason why the rest wouldn't have survived.

There's a reason why I'm an accountant and not a script writer!



Also, while I'm still discussing this here (I'm moving over to the movie thread, mods, don't worry! )....I'll throw out this shot at the critics:

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/movies.ap.org/rebooted-pirates-sets-overseas-box-office-record-ap


Looks like Roger Ebert was wrong.....again!

 

[Jpfan4ever]

**SPOILER**

@PiratesFrank ALSO! Did you notice Cotton's Parrot in the bottle aswell! I think your theory could be right, and that the crew is simply inside the bottle!

-Chris

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

**SPOILER**

@PiratesFrank ALSO! Did you notice Cotton's Parrot in the bottle aswell! I think your theory could be right, and that the crew is simply inside the bottle!

-Chris

If that's true, i actually missed that part and didn't see Cotton's Parrot at all. You sure he was there? I would still have to say though, it still unlikely the crew survived. Blackbeard seems the type to kill of the human survivors at least. I doubt he'd waste his time on animals, so just because they're there doesn't mean the crew is. Jack the monkey is immortal, so he could survive any sort of thing. The parrot may have just flown off until the battle was over and then landed again before Blackbeard shrunk the ship. He did it several times before in fact, abandoning Cotton and coming back later on.

 

[PirateFrank]

**SPOILER**

@PiratesFrank ALSO! Did you notice Cotton's Parrot in the bottle aswell! I think your theory could be right, and that the crew is simply inside the bottle!

-Chris

I did not notice that...I'll have to look for the parrot when I see it again next weekend....but having said that, merlin's right....the parrot could've run er flew....I guess this could go either way....

Let's hope there's a 5th movie so we can find out! :sohappy:

 

[_Scar]

They could have made Blackbeard so much more badass if he was a normal badass with no magical powers.


BTW, putting mermaids in the ride with them pulling your vehical over with their whips = awesome armchair imagineering idea I had mid-movie hahaha

 

[darthspielberg]

The movie was okay. It lacks something from the first three in not having Gore Verbinski as director. He took the worst ideas from the scripts and at least tried to make them watchable. Rob Marshall doesn't do half as good a job with the bad material in OST.

As for the ride, I really don't think Blackbeard fits in the location they have him at. He *spoiler*uses voodoo*spoiler* but doesn't have any other real powers beside that. why would he be appearing in a mystic waterfall?

If they really wanted to include him, have him appear on the Wicked Wench or something, but that would require a closing of the ride even for a little bit. Time is money. Sigh.

 

[Malvito]

I'll throw out this shot at the critics:

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/movies.ap.org/rebooted-pirates-sets-overseas-box-office-record-ap


Looks like Roger Ebert was wrong.....again!

Neither Mr. Ebert, nor any of the other critics, were "wrong"; they spoke their opinions of the movie, which is entirely subjective. Mr. Ebert's was particularly impatient, but that does not make it "wrong." Also, neither he nor any of the other critics ever claimed to have any sort of insight as to how well a movie is going to do at the box office.

I liked the movie; didn't love it, like the first movie, but liked it a lot better than #s 2 & 3. Wasn't sad to not see appearances by Everyone's Favorites, in part because the movie seemed so busy; there were really too many characters as it stood, IMHO. The presence of the Spanish reminded me of the presence of the French Army in The Brothers Grimm; they didn't really add to the plot, though one has to consider how much might have been lost, for any of the characters or groups, in either the rewrites or the editing. There will probably be a lot of stories upon the release of the Blu-ray.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Hey! Someone said there is a new projection in some boat ride!

A boat ride you say??? Interesting, indeed.

Have you any information on the nature of said boat ride?

 

[Malvito]

A boat ride you say??? Interesting, indeed.

Have you any information on the nature of said boat ride?

I understand that it takes place in a boat. Water might be involved ...

 

[RSoxNo1]

They could have made Blackbeard so much more badass if he was a normal badass with no magical powers.


BTW, putting mermaids in the ride with them pulling your vehical over with their whips = awesome armchair imagineering idea I had mid-movie hahaha

I agree on Blackbeard. I really didn't get the feeling that he was truly evil, mainly because the foil of Angelica was introduced before he was. She downplayed his evilness before we even met him.

 

[MickeyPeace]

Im seeing the movie tonight. I'm looking forward to NOT seeing Keira Knightly. She was always annoying.

 

[PirateFrank]

Neither Mr. Ebert, nor any of the other critics, were "wrong"; they spoke their opinions of the movie, which is entirely subjective. Mr. Ebert's was particularly impatient, but that does not make it "wrong." Also, neither he nor any of the other critics ever claimed to have any sort of insight as to how well a movie is going to do at the box office.

Depends on what you interpret as the critics objective. If it's to assess the movie to give the public an objective opinion on which to base whether a person will attend the feature....he most certain was wrong.

Listen, at the end of the day, a movie is designed to bring in the dollar bills.....like that or not, the success of a movie is measured on that....and that is why, for the most part, oscars are doled out in the ensuing year....

Let's face it, based on the fact that this opening weekend, internationally, is a record breaker....it is very clear that Ebert and others ate so out of touch with the public that they really don't belong in the positions they are in...