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Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

Screamface

Well-Known Member
I’d argue that it’s knee-jerk reactions from negative-biased ”fans” (many of whom say they haven’t even seen the movie) that’s kept Wakanda Forever from making more money.

Maybe, without T''Challa, the film just became another in the long line of "Next Marvel Product" for many and it made little argument for seeing it. It's got some bump, but like all Marvel post End Game. What is the point? It's filler for a cinematic universe currently going nowhere. We may at some point get a movie in the future where the Atlantians, or whatever they are, rise up to help fight Thanos 2.0. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
However Spiderman No Way Home and Top Gun Maverick where both post pandemic and made $1,971,439,845 and $1,486,657,763 respectively so that argument about cinematic climate really doesn't hold water. People will show up for a movie they want to see. WF seems not to be that movie.
It's simple.
1. Neither NWH nor TGM had any streaming platform ready to show them. Everyone knew that. Every MCU fan knows that SM is owned by Sony and doesn't show on D+. TGM was not connected to any studio's streaming platform. So their only means to watch was on the big screen and that was stated everywhere.
2. NWH was a culmination of 20 years of SM movies with prominent roles from Tobey and Andrew, along with Strange and a bunch of classic villains. It was marketed as and lived up to the idea of being the Endgame of Spiderman movies.
3. TGM had nearly 50% of its audiences over 55 years old by its second week. That is an age group that doesn't do a lot of streaming. It also appealed heavily to a more conservative base which makes up much less of a streaming audience anyway.
4. When considering successful movies, comparing EVERYTHING to two of the biggest movies ever made will always put up an unfair comp. I could do the same and say that TGM and SM NWH were failures because they didn't match up with The Force Awakens or Endgame.
5. BPWF had absolutely insurmountable odds against. Negative PR (Letitia Wright issues), losing Chadwick and thus its main character, and the constant onslaught of alt-right racists and bigots who flood social media with their typical "stuff" (watching language lol) all put the movie's back against the wall. Sure, I would have liked to see it end up domestically between $475-$500 million, but eh. Just a number. It had a fresh RT score and a very high audience score. It was a very highly regarded movie by most. We're just living in a VERY different world than we did in 2018.
 
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erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
@erasure fan1 Who's blaming fans for what? And how exactly should people hold Disney to what task?
Here's just one example
I’d argue that it’s knee-jerk reactions from negative-biased ”fans” (many of whom say they haven’t even seen the movie) that’s kept Wakanda Forever from making more money.
It's a theme that comes up a lot. We all love Disney or we wouldn't be on the boards. It's ok to think they can do better. If I don't think an offering is up to par, I'll say it and they won't get my business. Just because someone holds them to a higher standard, doesn't mean they're less of a fan. Wakanda isn't making less because negative fans. It's making less because of the choices they made with the film.
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
Here's just one example

It's a theme that comes up a lot. We all love Disney or we wouldn't be on the boards. It's ok to think they can do better. If I don't think an offering is up to par, I'll say it and they won't get my business. Just because someone holds them to a higher standard, doesn't mean they're less of a fan. Wakanda isn't making less because negative fans. It's making less because of the choices they made with the film.
That's fact though. All you have to do is spend 5 minutes on any social media outlet or YT to see that there were a LOT of people who did that. It's not just for BPWF but pretty much for every movie that stars minorities or females. Couple that with those who were opposed to the movie for not recasting Chadwick's role and never gave it a chance and you have some of the massive obstacles I referred to.

But as you yourself admitted (thank you), you said it was due to choices in the film. I assume you are referring to (a) not recasting T'Challa and/or (b) female leads. So if people did not accept one or both of those, it's on them, the so-called "fans". The quality of the film speaks for itself.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
But as you yourself admitted (thank you), you said it was due to choices in the film. I assume you are referring to (a) not recasting T'Challa and/or (b) female leads. So if people did not accept one or both of those, it's on them, the so-called "fans". The quality of the film speaks for itself.
There's a few things going on. Yes, not recasting Tchalla is part of it, and so might be that his sister took up the mantle. But it's more than just so "called fans". I'd say it has more to do with the average joe not going. Streaming has a lot to do with that. You can't blame people for not going if they're not sure about the content. Especially when they know they can wait and see it later. It's not just one thing, it never has been.

I get what you're saying about the minorities and females and the social media mobs. Like most voices on the internet, they aren't as loud as they seem. We're in a strange time and Disney has put themselves into an odd situation. They have made all sides of the social wars mad at them. That's the massive obstacle they need to overcome.
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
It's simple.
1. Neither NWH nor TGM had any streaming platform ready to show them. Everyone knew that. Every MCU fan knows that SM is owned by Sony and doesn't show on D+. TGM was not connected to any studio's streaming platform. So their only means to watch was on the big screen and that was stated everywhere.
2. NWH was a culmination of 20 years of SM movies with prominent roles from Tobey and Andrew, along with Strange and a bunch of classic villains. It was marketed as and lived up to the idea of being the Endgame of Spiderman movies.
3. TGM had nearly 50% of its audiences over 55 years old by its second week. That is an age group that doesn't do a lot of streaming. It also appealed heavily to a more conservative base which makes up much less of a streaming audience anyway.
This analysis of Maverick has some dubious claims. If it hadn’t been a runaway hit, the movie would’ve ended up on Paramount+ with other new releases like Smile (still in theaters and simultaneously streaming), Jackass Forever, and Scream. Now you can point out that audiences wouldn’t necessarily know that, whereas Marvel/Disney+ is a branded relationship. But the fact is Maverick had great word of mouth, and was acknowledged as a big screen spectacle (same as Elvis which did great box office for WB).
 

spacemt354

Chili's
That's fact though. All you have to do is spend 5 minutes on any social media outlet or YT to see that there were a LOT of people who did that. It's not just for BPWF but pretty much for every movie that stars minorities or females. Couple that with those who were opposed to the movie for not recasting Chadwick's role and never gave it a chance and you have some of the massive obstacles I referred to.

But as you yourself admitted (thank you), you said it was due to choices in the film. I assume you are referring to (a) not recasting T'Challa and/or (b) female leads. So if people did not accept one or both of those, it's on them, the so-called "fans". The quality of the film speaks for itself.
Those negative people clearly didn't have an impact on the opening weekend box office which broke records.

If Wakanda Forever reaches $450 million domestic which I'd predict it does, that's a great accomplishment. I never expected the film to reach the heights of the first because it's very hard to catch lightning in a bottle twice.

I thought it was a step down from BP 1, but in no way was it bad, and was one of the best aspects of Phase 4. But I'm tired of the narrative of fans being to blame when a film doesn't meet exceedingly high expectations. You give those negative folks too much credit for something they don't influence.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
Here's just one example

It's a theme that comes up a lot. We all love Disney or we wouldn't be on the boards. It's ok to think they can do better. If I don't think an offering is up to par, I'll say it and they won't get my business. Just because someone holds them to a higher standard, doesn't mean they're less of a fan. Wakanda isn't making less because negative fans. It's making less because of the choices they made with the film.
In my opinion, Wakanda Forever is a great film. I’m a Black Panther fan, and I think they handled the handoff well.

I think the social and political perspectives that always seem to come into play in evaluating, well, everything these days absolutely came into play here. Negative word of mouth (unwarranted, in my opinion, and too early to be entirely legitimate) had an effect on BO.

But since I’m also of the mind that moviegoing isn’t what it was, I think box office may not be the best indicator of public reaction to the film.

I would be happy with a lower-budget BP series, BTW. I think they could do some fun and interesting worldbuilding with a D+ series set in Wakanda.
 

MisterPenguin

🐧🐧Pfizer x2 🐧🐧🐧Moderna 2+bi🐧
Premium Member

1.) Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (Dis), 3.855 (-435) theaters, Fri $4.4M (-76%)/Sat $8.08M, Sun $5.1M, 3-day $17.59M (-61%)/Total: $393.7M/Wk 4

The pic is running 6% ahead of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness through four weekends and has a running total of $733M Worldwide.
 

Prince-1

Well-Known Member
What’s with all the people acting like the bottom fell out on Wakanda Forever…I would think a 61% drop on the weekend after Thanksgiving would be respectable….people generally have a lot going on that week too

Stop using logic. Trolls have smaller brains and have trouble processing things that make sense.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
In my opinion, Wakanda Forever is a great film. I’m a Black Panther fan, and I think they handled the handoff well.

I think the social and political perspectives that always seem to come into play in evaluating, well, everything these days absolutely came into play here. Negative word of mouth (unwarranted, in my opinion, and too early to be entirely legitimate) had an effect on BO.
From what I've seen, the reviews are mostly positive. Even sites that are usually the first to release a headline like "DISNEYS LATEST ULTRA FLOP!!!!" Have said it's done ok. I'm sure there are some who are "boycotting" because of the social political stuff, but I don't think that is the reason it probably won't do what the first did. I'd say the quick turn to D+ is a much bigger factor.
 

MisterPenguin

🐧🐧Pfizer x2 🐧🐧🐧Moderna 2+bi🐧
Premium Member
As posted above, BPWF is 6% ahead of DSitUoM, and that almost hit a billion dollars.

So, if BPWF keeps that lead over DS, it will break a billion.
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
From what I've seen, the reviews are mostly positive. Even sites that are usually the first to release a headline like "DISNEYS LATEST ULTRA FLOP!!!!" Have said it's done ok. I'm sure there are some who are "boycotting" because of the social political stuff, but I don't think that is the reason it probably won't do what the first did. I'd say the quick turn to D+ is a much bigger factor.
See, now we can definitely agree on something. D+ has been a factor for everything that will show on it. It will probably impact Avatar 2 also, but that has the holidays so it will do better than most. (although I don't think it will get that close to TGM, let alone SM: NWH).

As for when WF will hit D+, I suspect they will want to keep it in theaters until at least MLK weekend is over. It'll be making peanuts by then, but still. MLK is very important to what the BP franchise means.
 

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