Big changes coming to FASTPASS in March

[Buried20KLeague]

If you made the return time longer... you'd still have the some by people that had their reservation conflict with the last half of the window.

No matter what size the window is, there will always be some portion of people that 'miss out' because they took a FP for a time window that overlaps with something.

Your glass, sir, is half empty.

A window of an hour is easily in conflict with any number of activities during a day's park visit.

A window of 2 hours is in conflict with much less.

Even less... Dare I say non-existant??? For a 3 hour window.

Let's see what happens when XPass people miss their windows for whatever reason. I'm sure they won't be upset and will quickly and quietly wander over to the stand-by line.

 

[Scuttle]

What I can't wrap my head around is why 58% of the people on this thread voted yes to this. I don't get why fairly regular WDW visitors would be in favor of this. This gives us absolutely ZERO benefit. People claim the stand by lines and FP lines will drop a little bit, but by what a mere 5 minutes? This benefits none of us and I can't even begin to understand why people would be in favor of this.

 

[TalkingHead]

What I can't wrap my head around is why 58% of the people on this thread voted yes to this. I don't get why fairly regular WDW visitors would be in favor of this. This gives us absolutely ZERO benefit. People claim the stand by lines and FP lines will drop a little bit, but by what a mere 5 minutes? This benefits none of us and I can't even begin to understand why people would be in favor of this.

What I can't wrap my head around is why it's still subject to debate.

And while we're at it, who cares what "fairly regular WDW visitors" think of the change?

They're addicted to the place, can't imagine saying no to the Mouse, and virtually nothing (even strict FP times) will convince them to stop going.

Management might as well tailor the system so that the rules are fair for non-regular visitors. Those are the guests that they need to impress.

 

[steve2wdw]

What I can't wrap my head around is why it's still subject to debate.

And while we're at it, who cares what "fairly regular WDW visitors" think of the change?

They're addicted to the place, can't imagine saying no to the Mouse, and virtually nothing (even strict FP times) will convince them to stop going.

Management might as well tailor the system so that the rules are fair for non-regular visitors. Those are the guests that they need to impress.

You've got a point....

 

[lebeau]

What I can't wrap my head around is why it's still subject to debate.

And while we're at it, who cares what "fairly regular WDW visitors" think of the change?

They're addicted to the place, can't imagine saying no to the Mouse, and virtually nothing (even strict FP times) will convince them to stop going.

Management might as well tailor the system so that the rules are fair for non-regular visitors. Those are the guests that they need to impress.

If you're really sick of this "debate", you could just let people who are unhappy about it gripe without making a big thing out of it. At this point, it seems like you're arguing just to argue. Let him complain and move on.

He doesn't like the policy change. What's it to you? Why do you feel the need to keep tweaking his nose?

 

[flynnibus]

Your glass, sir, is half empty.

A window of an hour is easily in conflict with any number of activities during a day's park visit.

A window of 2 hours is in conflict with much less.

No - simply the idea that extending the window 'solves the problem' is not true. Your idea is premised that the problem is purely based on conflicts with fixed things - when in reality a big portion if it is related to the mentality that people know they have a big window and have the tendancy to relie on the window's length, rather than return at the start of the window. If you just make the window bigger, all it means is people will procrastinate more.

The problem is people say 'what time do I need to be there BY' instead of 'what time is my appointment'. People look at the LATEST they can return.

It may minimize the problem for some, but only for those who make the conscious decisions to prioritize the ride in the first place. By making it a bigger window, it simply reenforces the idea that the commodity isn't as limited, so people will treat it with even less importance. 'Oh don't worry, we have 3hrs to use it!' and they'll still make the same choices, like leaving the park, that will cause conflict with returning within the window. 'We have three hours, no need to goto the ride NOW, we'll do it later', etc etc etc. It will just be more reason for people to procrastinate. So instead of solving the problem, you've just altered it and the lingering problems still exist. It's a hack job that doesn't make the problem go away.

The way to solve the problem is to allow people to defer to a later time window. The key is how to do this without requiring a huge investment in people and resources and not slow down the vast majority of transactions.

Here's the scenario... the current return time is during your upcoming ADR. You get a FP ticket for the current return time. Imagine if the system would allow you to insert your current FP, and exchange it for a FP that is automatically 90mins later. As long as there is a later window available, it allows you to exchange your current allotment for a later one.

This solves problems with your 'I get there and I can't use the FP because the return time conflicts with my plans' scenario. It also solves problems like 'our plans have changed, and I can't ride right now...'.

This requires no user input and no CM intervention. All you need is FP machine that can dispose of inserted media instead of always returning it.

If you wanted to extend the feature to include guest recovery... you allow people to exchange a FP for that DAY, but may be expired, for a future time window (the same 90mins from now, or possibly if exchanging an expired FP, you give them a FP for the next available window. Customer Sat decides if you allow a override FP if no more time windows are available).

Such a model gives the guest what they want (a valid FP for a different time) without ignoring the idea of fixed capacity per time window. Making the window longer screws with the predicted # of people returning per window... simply giving you a different window does not.

 

[flynnibus]

What I can't wrap my head around is why 58% of the people on this thread voted yes to this. I don't get why fairly regular WDW visitors would be in favor of this. This gives us absolutely ZERO benefit. People claim the stand by lines and FP lines will drop a little bit, but by what a mere 5 minutes? This benefits none of us and I can't even begin to understand why people would be in favor of this.

For the same reason most people support any enforcement of existing rules to bring a level playing field.. instead of turning a blind eye to loopholes and letting people brash enough to ignore the policies through.

If they started a policy that ENFORCED legit parking in every lot.. I'd be for that too. If they started a policy that ENFORCED the rules on outside food.. I'd be for that too.

Would that be a negative for those that flaunt those rules today because Disney's current Customer Service strategy is that it's not worth stopping those customers? Yup. Would it impact me in a negative way? Possibly with slower gates, etc.. would I support it still? Yup

 

[dduck174]

I can still remember...

When FP was first introduced you couldn't even get a second one without using the first. No one complained...now you want more time?! This is a perfect example of give them an inch and they'll take a mile... No reason whatsoever you can't plan for the window provided, and anyone who thinks this is somehow just as bad as standby or that it isn't a benefit should go to an amusement park without FP...I can remember 4 and 5 hour lines at universal when I was a CM. It is still convenient AND it is totally still a benefit for insiders cause we know the patterns and secrets(not loopholes) for the system. Still the BEST free service that has scientifically been proven to reduce lines in the beginning when it was still strict too. You can't aim for the last ten minutes of an hour window and then complain that you didn't make it. For every story you guys come up with of not making it for some reason or another I have ten apiece of making it from farther away and stranger circumstances...it just takes a little bit of planning. Its not even a stretch.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

No - simply the idea that extending the window 'solves the problem' is not true. Your idea is premised that the problem is purely based on conflicts with fixed things - when in reality a big portion if it is related to the mentality that people know they have a big window and have the tendancy to relie on the window's length, rather than return at the start of the window. If you just make the window bigger, all it means is people will procrastinate more.

The problem is people say 'what time do I need to be there BY' instead of 'what time is my appointment'. People look at the LATEST they can return.

It may minimize the problem for some, but only for those who make the conscious decisions to prioritize the ride in the first place. By making it a bigger window, it simply reenforces the idea that the commodity isn't as limited, so people will treat it with even less importance. 'Oh don't worry, we have 3hrs to use it!' and they'll still make the same choices, like leaving the park, that will cause conflict with returning within the window. 'We have three hours, no need to goto the ride NOW, we'll do it later', etc etc etc. It will just be more reason for people to procrastinate. So instead of solving the problem, you've just altered it and the lingering problems still exist. It's a hack job that doesn't make the problem go away.

The way to solve the problem is to allow people to defer to a later time window. The key is how to do this without requiring a huge investment in people and resources and not slow down the vast majority of transactions.

Here's the scenario... the current return time is during your upcoming ADR. You get a FP ticket for the current return time. Imagine if the system would allow you to insert your current FP, and exchange it for a FP that is automatically 90mins later. As long as there is a later window available, it allows you to exchange your current allotment for a later one.

This solves problems with your 'I get there and I can't use the FP because the return time conflicts with my plans' scenario. It also solves problems like 'our plans have changed, and I can't ride right now...'.

This requires no user input and no CM intervention. All you need is FP machine that can dispose of inserted media instead of always returning it.

If you wanted to extend the feature to include guest recovery... you allow people to exchange a FP for that DAY, but may be expired, for a future time window (the same 90mins from now, or possibly if exchanging an expired FP, you give them a FP for the next available window. Customer Sat decides if you allow a override FP if no more time windows are available).

Such a model gives the guest what they want (a valid FP for a different time) without ignoring the idea of fixed capacity per time window. Making the window longer screws with the predicted # of people returning per window... simply giving you a different window does not.

... Or a less complicated way of doing the same thing would be to not enforce the return times on FP. :lookaroun

AAAAANNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDD... We've come full circle. :lol:

Seriously, what you suggest would be a fine solution... As, I believe, would be the couple that I and others have suggested. The main point being that currently the system is more flawed now as compared to before the change.

I do disagree a larger window wouldn't alleviate problems. I can only speak for myself, but for my family a 3 hour window would be very simple to work within. If I couldn't make a 3 hour window, I've got no one to blame but myself. With an hour window, I don't feel that way.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

When FP was first introduced you couldn't even get a second one without using the first. No one complained...now you want more time?! This is a perfect example of give them an inch and they'll take a mile... No reason whatsoever you can't plan for the window provided, and anyone who thinks this is somehow just as bad as standby or that it isn't a benefit should go to an amusement park without FP...I can remember 4 and 5 hour lines at universal when I was a CM. It is still convenient AND it is totally still a benefit for insiders cause we know the patterns and secrets(not loopholes) for the system. Still the BEST free service that has scientifically been proven to reduce lines in the beginning when it was still strict too. You can't aim for the last ten minutes of an hour window and then complain that you didn't make it. For every story you guys come up with of not making it for some reason or another I have ten apiece of making it from farther away and stranger circumstances...it just takes a little bit of planning. Its not even a stretch.

Systems are often not perfect when first implemented, and once they are put in place and there's been a real-world testing of the system, you start finding ways to make it more efficient. There's absolutely no reason that we as consumers shouldn't be looking for ways to make the system better. It's not "give an inch, take a mile". It's "building a better mousetrap". To suggest we should all be happy because they've improved the system since roll out is laughable.

And AGAIN... There ABSOLUTELY ARE reasons you can't (at times) plan for an hour window. They've been stated time and time again here. You may not agree with them personally, but facts are facts. I shared specific examples of my situation a little over a week ago. You can't tell me it didn't happen, because it did.

And for every ISSUE that I had with a FP return time on my last trip, we have 5 FP's that we did NOT have problems with. That's not what this thread is about... It's about the change, and how it's effected peoples' touring of the parks. And the fact is that after this change, we were able to ride significantly less FP attractions over the course of our 6 days. It is what it is.

 

[Tom]

No - simply the idea that extending the window 'solves the problem' is not true. Your idea is premised that the problem is purely based on conflicts with fixed things - when in reality a big portion if it is related to the mentality that people know they have a big window and have the tendancy to relie on the window's length, rather than return at the start of the window. If you just make the window bigger, all it means is people will procrastinate more.

The problem is people say 'what time do I need to be there BY' instead of 'what time is my appointment'. People look at the LATEST they can return.

An excellent point. When we get a Fastpass, we ALWAYS look at it as a return time. If the Fastpass is 1:05 - 2:05, we look at it as a 1:05 appointment, and we gear our interim time around that, knowing that we have an hour of buffer to be late. When you look at it that way, it really helps manage your time.

For ToT, we got the FP and did 2 other things, and then killed time in some shops just waiting for the start time to come around. Same for Splash.

On Monday night we did the Wishes Dessert Party and were cutting it really close getting to Buzz before the end of our FP time. But, when we got the FP, we watched the return-time clocks and with a tiny bit of kindergarten math, we were able to ensure that the return window would allow us to do the party AND the ride.

I do like the comments made about the old days, and old methods. Since the 90s, Mr. Len Testa has helped my family tour the parks successfully - even before Fastpass.

 

[flynnibus]

... Or a less complicated way of doing the same thing would be to not enforce the return times on FP. :lookaroun

AAAAANNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDD... We've come full circle. :lol:

Not a simpler solution because your solution breaks the premise of how capacity is managed.

, what you suggest would be a fine solution... As, I believe, would be the couple that I and others have suggested. The main point being that currently the system is more flawed now as compared to before the change.[

I believe you asked before to get to pick your time. My proposal is significantly different because it makes getting a different time an exception case not the norm. It does not require any user interface(no time selection). It also gives a path to allow guest recovery options for expired passes within the same hardware.

 

[G00fyDad]

You're over-simplifying it. I'm not going to post the same thing I've said about 5 times in this thread again, but I've posted real and rational issues with the policy, along with a real-time example of what happened to us just over a week ago.

State your point all you want. It still doesn't change the fact that I am not living in some time dilation loop where the laws of physics don't apply to me. I am subject to the same restrictions as everyone else. So why can I seem to be able to effectively, very effectively, use the FP system and other say they cannot? :shrug: It just doesn't make any sense to a rational individual. No over-simplification here. You get a FP for the time if it agrees with your schedule or you don't. What it boils down to here is what I said in my original post...

You want what you want when you want it. Oh yeah... and how you want it.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Not a simpler solution because your solution breaks the premise of how capacity is managed.



I believe you asked before to get to pick your time. My proposal is significantly different because it makes getting a different time an exception case not the norm. It does not require any user interface(no time selection). It also gives a path to allow guest recovery options for expired passes within the same hardware.

I didn't ask to pick my time.

The two things I suggested were FP distribution times posted at the entrance to each land and the hub (plus bulking up the data network so the app works for that info for those that can use it), and extending the window to something more than an hour. Three preferably... If not that then two.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

You want what you want when you want it. Oh yeah... and how you want it.

And I see no problem with that when the system is capable of handling exactly that for everyone. If I want the ability to squeeze in 2 more FP rides a day and it's well within reach for me and everyone else, why should that be wrong?

And while I appreciate your apparent mastery of park travel and FP system utilization, without comparing what you want from your day vs. what others want from their day, your point is moot. Just because you get X done in the parks each day and are happy with that doesn't mean everyone else is happy with getting that same X done. It's possible others want to to do X+2... Not just X. And before this rule change, that may have been possible.

Unless, of course, you can prove that the way you tour the parks is the correct and only way to do it.... Which I think you'll have a hard time talking people into here.

 

[dduck174]

interesting...

And AGAIN... There ABSOLUTELY ARE reasons you can't (at times) plan for an hour window. They've been stated time and time again here. You may not agree with them personally, but facts are facts. I shared specific examples of my situation a little over a week ago. You can't tell me it didn't happen, because it did.



I think you may confuse fact with a choice...last time I checked ADR stood for ADVANCED dinner reservation...so when you walked up to a FP and saw it saw 6-7 and you knew your dinner was at 5:15 you thought you could squeeze it in. The fact is that you made a choice not that it was somehow FP's fault or disney's fault you didn't make it. Honestly I might have made the choice, doesn't mean it is a fact that you missed the FP cause of the system you missed the ride because you choose to plain and simple. Again I point out in the beginning of the system they enforced it too, its not new just being REenforced. In the beginning there was no limit to the number they gave out either, so are you mad that if you don't get there sometimes you don't get a pass? Does that ruin your trip too, when again PLANNING and getting there early to make sure you get a pass is the same as PLANNING to get there in the hour window?

This system has changed so many times and will continue to, it still is a benefit we have never had to pay for and complaining about the way something free is handled is rather petty...don't look this awesome gift horse in the mouth.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

And AGAIN... There ABSOLUTELY ARE reasons you can't (at times) plan for an hour window. They've been stated time and time again here. You may not agree with them personally, but facts are facts. I shared specific examples of my situation a little over a week ago. You can't tell me it didn't happen, because it did.



I think you may confuse fact with a choice...last time I checked ADR stood for ADVANCED dinner reservation...so when you walked up to a FP and saw it saw 6-7 and you knew your dinner was at 5:15 you thought you could squeeze it in. The fact is that you made a choice not that it was somehow FP's fault or disney's fault you didn't make it. Honestly I might have made the choice, doesn't mean it is a fact that you missed the FP cause of the system you missed the ride because you choose to plain and simple. Again I point out in the beginning of the system they enforced it too, its not new just being REenforced. In the beginning there was no limit to the number they gave out either, so are you mad that if you don't get there sometimes you don't get a pass? Does that ruin your trip too, when again PLANNING and getting there early to make sure you get a pass is the same as PLANNING to get there in the hour window?

This system has changed so many times and will continue to, it still is a benefit we have never had to pay for and complaining about the way something free is handled is rather petty...don't look this awesome gift horse in the mouth.

Again, I want to make this clear... I wasn't mad about the FP change during the trip. Honestly. We had a great time as a family and we got to do everything we wanted to in our 6 days.

This thread is about the FP rule change and how it effects park touring, and by extension how they could tweak things ever so slightly to improve guest experience. A high percentage of threads on this board do the exact same thing.... They discuss a topic about the parks and people talk about likes and dislikes and make suggestions. This thread is no different.

I completely don't understand the thought that we should "take what they give us the way they want to give it to us and like it". When it's a known fact that TDO reads these boards, why wouldn't we give them results of real-world testing (because we sure as hell know they're not in the parks seeing all of this first hand) and suggestions on how to improve??

Or should their have just been one total post in this thread consisting of thanks and gratitude to Disney and TDO for creating FP and telling them we don't care or want to have any input with regard to how it actually works? That sounds like a fun thread.

I'm not mad about this change. But facts are facts... After the change, you're not going to be able to ride as many FP rides in a day if you have anything else scheduled. It is what it is. This trip we had to make decisions we didn't have to make in the past.

It's a horrible policy that makes touring the parks more difficult.

 

[G00fyDad]

And I see no problem with that

Isn't that the biggest issue here? You don't understand why you can't simply do what you want regardless of how it affects others or goes against the rules.

If I want the ability to squeeze in 2 more FP rides a day and it's well within reach for me and everyone else, why should that be wrong?

We'd ALL love to be able to "squeeze in 2 more FP rides a day". The point is that they are enforcing the rule, and you don't like it. Simple enough. Your argument is like saying "Officer, I ran that stop sign because there was no one else close enough for it to affect. I do it all the time so why shouldn't I be able to run right through it?"

And while I appreciate your apparent mastery of park travel and FP system utilization, without comparing what you want from your day vs. what others want from their day, your point is moot. Just because you get X done in the parks each day and are happy with that doesn't mean everyone else is happy with getting that same X done. It's possible others want to to do X+2... Not just X. And before this rule change, that may have been possible.

You're comparing apples and oranges here. I didn't say that I get everything possible done in one day. That's just plain stupid to suggest. What I said is that I, and many many many others, are able to abide by the FP return times. We do not get FPs if it will conflict with other scheduled activities or plans. So why do you think that you should be able to do something that most everyone else does not? :shrug:

Unless, of course, you can prove that the way you tour the parks is the correct and only way to do it.... Which I think you'll have a hard time talking people into here.

Again, I'm not the arrogant one here. I never said that what I do works for others. Hell, it may not work for anyone else but following the FP return times is something that the majority of people do, not just me. Remember, I am not the one saying that the rules are stupid and should not apply to me.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Isn't that the biggest issue here? You don't understand why you can't simply do what you want regardless of how it affects others or goes against the rules.

Yep, that's completely it. How many times can I say that I wasn't mad about the rule change, but that I think it can be improved? WHAT IN THE WORLD IS WRONG WITH THAT?!?!?!?

And returning after the window was an acceptible act that was IN WRITING BY DISNEY. In writing. By Disney. Hence, it didn't negatively affect others, AND it didn't go against the rules. Anyone that wanted to do so was able to.

We'd ALL love to be able to "squeeze in 2 more FP rides a day". The point is that they are enforcing the rule, and you don't like it. Simple enough. Your argument is like saying "Officer, I ran that stop sign because there was no one else close enough for it to affect. I do it all the time so why shouldn't I be able to run right through it?"

Can you show me anywhere where the government has put IN WRITING that it's completely acceptible to run stop signs as long as no one's around? Because you'd make my commute home quite a bit shorter. Have you ever had a cop (FP CM) tell you it's okay to run a stop sign when people aren't around (return after your window)? Your argument holds no water because your premise is flawed. Returning after the window was never "breaking the rules". CM's loudly and proudly would declare when asked that end times didn't matter.


You're comparing apples and oranges here. I didn't say that I get everything possible done in one day. That's just plain stupid to suggest. What I said is that I, and many many many others, are able to abide by the FP return times. We do not get FPs if it will conflict with other scheduled activities or plans. So why do you think that you should be able to do something that most everyone else does not? :shrug:

You said that you did the parks in a day and worked within the FP parameters and got done what you wanted to get done, correct? My point is that your list of expectations in a day isn't the same as everyone else's. That's not apples and oranges. That's saying not everyone tours the parks like you do.


Again, I'm not the arrogant one here. I never said that what I do works for others. Hell, it may not work for anyone else but following the FP return times is something that the majority of people do, not just me. Remember, I am not the one saying that the rules are stupid and should not apply to me.

I believe you ARE the arrogant one. You're telling me I was breaking the rules, when clearly I was not. You're also accusing me of saying the rules are stupid and shouldn't apply to me. I AM saying the rules are stupid... But I never once said they shouldn't apply to ME... I said they shouldn't apply, PERIOD. I abided by the rules our entire trip, and had a fine time. That doesn't mean I have to think they are operating in the most customer friendly way possible.

Should I ride Splash in it's current condition and completely ignore all of its flaws and never discuss them, too? Who cares about an embarassing riverboat in the finale scene, right??? At least they put the ride in 20 years ago for us to ride! We should be happy it's there, even if it is 60% of what it's supposed to be! THANKS TDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your signature is quite appropriate.

 

[draybook]

You're comparing apples and oranges here.

Ironic, seeing as how you compared his dislike of FP to a traffic law.