Big changes coming to FASTPASS in March

[Buried20KLeague]

The window is an hour and 20 minutes long, a more than reasonable amount of time to eat a CS lunch even on a busy day.....and that's only if you went to lunch exactly when your FP window opened. Otherwise you would have even more time.

I had a 6 to 7 window FP for TT last week, with a 5:15 reservation at Garden Grill. I even got to GG at 5, just trying to give us as much time as possible there to make sure we made it to TT in time.

We were 10 minutes late. We weren't allowed to use the FP's.

I might add that we even made mention to our server a handful of times that we needed to make our FP times.

Stuff happens. There are going to be real reasons you can't get back in time, even if you think you've got plenty of time built in. It WILL cost people.

 

[Tom]

I hate this response. People don't get it.

Yes, we do.

And yes, *stuff* happens. But people are complaining about Disney enforcing the rule on a free perk...when even the most minor planning can ensure a successful day in a park.

The point the member was making, and that I agreed with, was simply that if you have a child that wants to ride something that badly, you should just ride it - regardless of having a Fastpass or not. Blaming Disney's enforcement of a rule for a disappointed child is childish, at best.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

It's true though. If you really really wanna ride then ya they could. But with kids it's a whole different game. Why would anyone want to stand an extra 60 or whatever minutes for a ride with kids when they were just 18 minutes late for a fastpass? I know I wouldn't just say oh well and leave or head to the regular line. Yes rules are rules, but 2 or 3 minutes late? That extra 60 minutes we could have been back at the resort.

This is exactly the way that an extreme majority of park-goers will feel and think.

Especially these days, when there's a massive "fight for your own" mentality and attitude in the parks. People fight for their spots on the monorail so you don't have to wait for the next one. People fight for their spots on the parking trams, shoving people out of the way. Getting spots for parades, or F!?? It's crazy! It's a huge "us against the world" mentality.

So what are these people going to do when they're a few minutes late for a FP, especially when they feel like they have a valid reason? Are they just going to say "aw shucks, let's head to the standby line and spend the next 60 minutes happy to be in Peter Pan's switchbacks!" or are they going to plead their case with the CM to try to get their way?

 

[Buried20KLeague]

If you have a problem with the change, you brought it upon yourself.

:lol:

Thanks for contributing.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

But people are complaining about Disney enforcing the rule on a free perk...

For now...

 

[TalkingHead]

The masses won't get "trained" and just know that if they show up 20 minutes late because they were trapped by a parade or what have you, they'll know better than to even ask. They'll plead their case and try to get the CM to let them through. Why? Because they know those tickets in their hand save them an hour (or more) of thier time standing in a line with their 2 year olds (that they're late because of, because they took forever to eat). They're going to do everything they can in many cases to try to use those FP's.

Except, I would guess, the majority of FP users think they have to use the FP during the times printed on the FP. So there's no "training" involved.

I suspect the people who abused/used the "non-expiring" loophole were, largely, APs and frequent guests.

And if someone wants to watch a parade and miss their FP time, that's fine. They made the choice to watch a decrepit parade clank down Main Street. If they'd wanted to use their FP during the parade, they could have.

No one is required to watch the parades and fireworks.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Except, I would guess, the majority of FP users think they have to use the FP during the times printed on the FP. So there's no "training" involved.

I suspect the people who abused/used the "non-expiring" loophole were, largely, APs and frequent guests.

And if someone wants to watch a parade and miss their FP time, that's fine. They made the choice to watch a decrepit parade clank down Main Street. If they'd wanted to use their FP during the parade, they could have.

No one is required to watch the parades and fireworks.

Anyone that asked was told end times weren't enforced... I would imagine a lot of first-timers would maybe even ask more questions about the times window as they're trying to get a handle on how the system worked.

And again, I don't disagree that you make your choice to watch a parade or fireworks. My point is that you have to make that choice NOW, when in the PAST you didn't. That's my simple point. We were faced with that choice on this trip and for the first time ever, skipped Wishes one night so we could ride PPF (for our 3 year old) without having to burn a (now extremely valuable) FP window on it.

 

[pax_65]

For now...

EXACTLY. This FP change is only being done for one reason - to free up capacity for XPass.

So everyone is being inconvenienced so Disney can collect more $$$ out of people who want to pay to avoid the line.

 

[TalkingHead]

Anyone that asked was told end times weren't enforced... I would imagine a lot of first-timers would maybe even ask more questions about the times window as they're trying to get a handle on how the system worked.

I don't know about that. I suppose some CMs might have said the ending time didn't matter. Most CMs I knew explained it as you use the FP during the times on the ticket. If someone showed up late, you honored the pass anyway. But most guests would figure they had to use the pass between the times printed on the ticket, too, since it clearly says that on the FP.

But more to the point, there are still a lot of WDW visitors who don't understand what FP is or how to use it. So I'm guessing the people who understood the loophole system and planned their visits around it were in the minority. I don't think this will require as much guest reprogramming as you think it will, but we'll never know since all that we have is anecdotal evidence.

 

[TalkingHead]

EXACTLY. This FP change is only being done for one reason - to free up capacity for XPass.

So everyone is being inconvenienced so Disney can collect more $$$ out of people who want to pay to avoid the line.

You can always choose not to go if it makes you that mad.

 

[pax_65]

You can always choose not to go if it makes you that mad.

If it comes down to a choice between paying even more money (after DVC and annual passes) and planning every last detail of my vacation months in advance, or waiting in ridiculously long lines, then yes... I will stop going to WDW as frequently.

As I love WDW and have been there over 25 times in the past 20 years, I'm hoping things won't be as bad as I fear. But there is very little recent news to put me at ease.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

As I love WDW and have been there over 25 times in the past 20 years, I'm hoping things won't be as bad as I fear. But there is very little recent news to put me at ease.

That about sums it up for me.

 

[flynnibus]

I think we just have a philosophical difference on the topic. You view it is being upset something is no longer on sale. I view it as being upset because they raised the price.

Well.. FP was a perk - it was never the DEFAULT way to experience attractions. I think there in lies the problem for people. They act like the way they used FP was 'the way' to do things and now it's taken away they are upset. When in reality, FP has always been a specialized way to experience the attraction.. and the ignoring the return time was never the intended way to use it. So as long as people keep holding onto the optimized way was 'the way' to do things.. they will be upset in any other method if its not even more optimized then what they did before.

It is the 'on sale' price vs normal price analogy. People want it on sale all the time and are upset with the normal price. Instead of recognizing the 'on sale' price was always a special case.

And truthfully, it's not like I was furious

But we do come back and use words like 'horrible'

or others say 'I hope the place gets flooded with complaints'

You count up how many attraction rides you 'missed' because of opportunistic loss, etc.

People are making it out as if it's a real direct loss to them, so much so they should be up in arms, storm the castle, etc etc. It's a FP.. not the winning lottery ticket.

I merely was stating the fact that because of this rule change (no matter how you describe the rule change) we absolutely rodes less FP attractions on this trip than we ever have in the past... INCLUDING before FP even existed, because standby lines moved much faster in those days.

I really don't buy that view of the parks. When we have to wait an hour+ on average for attractions like was common in the 80s.. then I'll buy into that. Reality is the wait tolerance for rides is WAY WAY down compared to what it used to be.. and that is indicative that people are accustomed to waiting way less now.

I can certainly see people getting less rides on the major attractions now than when they could by optmizing their FPs... but again, that is a specialized case, not the norm. So being forced back to the norm I don't see as a huge deal. The 'golden days' before the loophole was closed are simply behind us now.

I understand your point that getting a nap, having ressies, etc, are all things I brought on ourselves and without those things I could have more freely gotten FP's an criss-crossed parks as needed... But my point was that in the past those things didn't even have to conflict. In the past, those things were more easily dealt with.

*IF* you knowingly ignored the return times. If you were playing by the published standard.. you'd be in the same boat that you were this trip. That's why I don't see it as this HUGE CHANGE like some want to make it out to be. The vast majority of people were living in this dire world you painted already... and people did ok!

Is it that the model that allowed us "more than we deserved" is gone, or is it that they're made the parks much more difficult to tour on your own schedule...

Yes (bold) - the loophole is gone. Just like many tweaks that used to get your more than advertised.. there is no need to stomp our feet when the loophole is closed.

It's not any more difficult to tour on your own schedule.. just don't use the perk if it's not compatible with your needs.

Potentially to offer that freedom that so many of us got accustomed to back down the road at a cost?

You'll be much happier down the road if you can separate these emotions so keep them from muddling up your actual vacation experience.

Who knows.. what happens when you are the one benefiting from the XPass experience? Are you still going to be upset the old FP isn't what it used to be if the new XPass model actually gave you a better experience? See the hypocrisy there?

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Well.. FP was a perk - it was never the DEFAULT way to experience attractions. I think there in lies the problem for people. They act like the way they used FP was 'the way' to do things and now it's taken away they are upset. When in reality, FP has always been a specialized way to experience the attraction.. and the ignoring the return time was never the intended way to use it. So as long as people keep holding onto the optimized way was 'the way' to do things.. they will be upset in any other method if its not even more optimized then what they did before.

It is the 'on sale' price vs normal price analogy. People want it on sale all the time and are upset with the normal price. Instead of recognizing the 'on sale' price was always a special case.



But we do come back and use words like 'horrible'

or others say 'I hope the place gets flooded with complaints'

You count up how many attraction rides you 'missed' because of opportunistic loss, etc.

People are making it out as if it's a real direct loss to them, so much so they should be up in arms, storm the castle, etc etc. It's a FP.. not the winning lottery ticket.



I really don't buy that view of the parks. When we have to wait an hour+ on average for attractions like was common in the 80s.. then I'll buy into that. Reality is the wait tolerance for rides is WAY WAY down compared to what it used to be.. and that is indicative that people are accustomed to waiting way less now.

I can certainly see people getting less rides on the major attractions now than when they could by optmizing their FPs... but again, that is a specialized case, not the norm. So being forced back to the norm I don't see as a huge deal. The 'golden days' before the loophole was closed are simply behind us now.



*IF* you knowingly ignored the return times. If you were playing by the published standard.. you'd be in the same boat that you were this trip. That's why I don't see it as this HUGE CHANGE like some want to make it out to be. The vast majority of people were living in this dire world you painted already... and people did ok!



Yes (bold) - the loophole is gone. Just like many tweaks that used to get your more than advertised.. there is no need to stomp our feet when the loophole is closed.

It's not any more difficult to tour on your own schedule.. just don't use the perk if it's not compatible with your needs.



You'll be much happier down the road if you can separate these emotions so keep them from muddling up your actual vacation experience.

Who knows.. what happens when you are the one benefiting from the XPass experience? Are you still going to be upset the old FP isn't what it used to be if the new XPass model actually gave you a better experience? See the hypocrisy there?

You and I see all this VERY differently. I respect your opinion and your view, but I disagree with it. Each of us probably won't ever convince the other that their view is the correct one. It just is what it is.

I disagree with how you see it. You disagree with how I do. It's probably best to let it lie there otherwise we'll go back and forth forever.

I do want to make sure I make the point that I wasn't furious during our trip. At all. I said I thought it was a "horribly policy", because I DO think it's a horrible policy. There was no complaining to City Hall... Not gnashing of teeth. I simply was curious how this trip would compare (touring-wise) to our past trips, and I wanted to keep a general idea in my head of how many FP rides we weren't able to ride because of the change... I thought it would be useful info to share with everyone here.

 

[menamechris]

EXACTLY. This FP change is only being done for one reason - to free up capacity for XPass.

So everyone is being inconvenienced so Disney can collect more $$$ out of people who want to pay to avoid the line.

This is pretty much the point. Summed up well. This has been a topic that some "holier-than-thou" people like to debate, because in their mind - Disney is enforcing the rules to make it a better system. This is far from the motivation. This is management's way of squeezing the system as tight as they can, so that they can create a way to make cash off of it after all these years. Basically, this will become a situation of "look what a hassle FastPass is - but we can make it easier and more convenient for you with the purchase of XPass". Disney doesn't care if you came back on time before or not. Nor do they care if you are passionately for or against the new policy, they just care that they can find a new stream of revenue at the expense of the guest experience, and not their budget....

 

[dduck174]

I guess I never knew??

I find it very interesting that in all my visits to the parks and use of FP, I never once didn't come back during the hour window that was provided. I guess I never even knew there was a way to "take advantage" of the system. I am fairly certain as what I would consider a pretty hardcore WDW fan, I can't be the only one. So, it seems to me this really doesn't affect anywhere near the majority of the park goers. I realize on this site we are the loud minority but its my understanding it was always intended to be the way it is now...not a big change to me...shrug...

 

[Tom]

If it comes down to a choice between paying even more money (after DVC and annual passes) and planning every last detail of my vacation months in advance, or waiting in ridiculously long lines, then yes... I will stop going to WDW as frequently.

As I love WDW and have been there over 25 times in the past 20 years, I'm hoping things won't be as bad as I fear. But there is very little recent news to put me at ease.

In your 20 years of WDW visits, many of those were pre-FastPass. And since you're here posting, you obviously survived those years and are still a WDW fan.

But you're saying that by requiring you to come back and ride during a 1-hour window, they are ruining your vacation to the point at which you will STOP going to WDW because of it.

Well.. FP was a perk - it was never the DEFAULT way to experience attractions. I think there in lies the problem for people. They act like the way they used FP was 'the way' to do things and now it's taken away they are upset. When in reality, FP has always been a specialized way to experience the attraction.. and the ignoring the return time was never the intended way to use it. So as long as people keep holding onto the optimized way was 'the way' to do things.. they will be upset in any other method if its not even more optimized then what they did before.

Precisely. It was a way to plus the experience, and we went 20-some years without it just fine. And they indeed designed the system such that the number of people expected to return within a 1-hour window would maintain a consistent FP queue all day. All the research and logistics went right out the window when Operations decided to let people return anytime they wanted, rather than hearing people whine at City Hall all day about how they're incapable of telling time.

I really don't buy that view of the parks. When we have to wait an hour+ on average for attractions like was common in the 80s.. then I'll buy into that. Reality is the wait tolerance for rides is WAY WAY down compared to what it used to be.. and that is indicative that people are accustomed to waiting way less now.

This goes along with my story of this past week. It's spring break. Crowds are extremely heavy. And with a tiny plan and the use of one Fastpass, we accomplished a tremendous amount in 4 hours. Never once did we stand in a 1980's length queue. But everyone wants everything RIGHT NOW. Waits are unacceptable.

It's not any more difficult to tour on your own schedule.. just don't use the perk if it's not compatible with your needs.

Again, yes. If you walk in, look at a map, and say "we'll do this next", you're going to stand in line all day, and the occasional FP would help. But if you use any sort of logic, or spend 5 minutes putting together a plan, you can tour an entire park (including repeats) without using one single Fastpass....and avoid lines.

Who knows.. what happens when you are the one benefiting from the XPass experience? Are you still going to be upset the old FP isn't what it used to be if the new XPass model actually gave you a better experience? See the hypocrisy there?

Does anyone remember E-Ticket Nights? Only the best thing they ever did. But then they ruined them by making them "free", calling them Extra Magic Hours, and offering them to everyone on property. I GLADLY paid $10 (then $12, then $15) for 3 hours ALONE in the park. EMH is hardly worth the effort many times of the year. If the enforcement of rules for FP means I can purchase a nice perk, I'm actually for it.

Besides, as I said before, and as someone disagreed, I was in at least 3 FP queues this trip, and not one of them felt any longer than in years past. ToT - waited in the lobby for about 2 minutes, then went into the next Library. Buzz - walked all the way to the vehicle. Splash - walked about halfway down the final ramp before meeting people. But if those lines were even 5 minutes, I'd never complain. It's far better than 60-90.

 

[menamechris]

Does anyone remember E-Ticket Nights? Only the best thing they ever did. But then they ruined them by making them "free", calling them Extra Magic Hours, and offering them to everyone on property. I GLADLY paid $10 (then $12, then $15) for 3 hours ALONE in the park. EMH is hardly worth the effort many times of the year. If the enforcement of rules for FP means I can purchase a nice perk, I'm actually for it.

Except that it appears you will need to be staying at a deluxe resort. At least initially. So really you will be paying for it twice. Once with the outrageous deluxe resort room rate, and then again as an "add on" to your vacation package. I wouldn't expect to get any good deal here.... E-Ticket nights were discontinued because they WERE a good deal...

 

[draybook]

I really don't buy that view of the parks. When we have to wait an hour+ on average for attractions like was common in the 80s.. then I'll buy into that. Reality is the wait tolerance for rides is WAY WAY down compared to what it used to be.. and that is indicative that people are accustomed to waiting way less now.

Not that I'm arguing about the change, because we managed to do well with it. However, we were there from March 10th-16th and we did have average wait times of 45+ minutes at the MK. The other parks were probably an average of 35+ per ride, not including E tickets.

 

[RSoxNo1]

EXACTLY. This FP change is only being done for one reason - to free up capacity for XPass.

So everyone is being inconvenienced so Disney can collect more $$$ out of people who want to pay to avoid the line.

A few things - first off, the reports on xPass are that it will be a free service for everyone.

I think the solution here is to potentially expand the Fastpass return windows from an hour to two or three hours depending on the attraction. Attractions like Toy Story, Soarin', and Space Mountain should have a one hour return, Jungle Cruise and Buzz Lightyear should have two hour return windows and the new FP attractions like Spaceship Earth and The Seas with Nemo and Friends should have 3 hour windows.