Big changes coming to FASTPASS in March

[flynnibus]

I wonder if they mean this "policy":

Well it does say Service RECOVERY... This is guidance for CMs on what to do in exception cases and how to ensure a consistent customer service level.

And note the blurb sent out did not explain the exceptions that we see CMs posting about as well. So I don't really see these things as conflicting... just that an equivalent 'reminder' notice like the one you posted will obviously have to be updated to match their new exception handling policies.

 

[WDW1974]

Boy, I'm impressed with the passion over this issue. I wish it were directed at something of much more importance, but I'm impressed.

I'm also sorry if anyone responded to any of my earlier posts because I can't/won't go back through 30-some pages of posts.

I swore I wasn't coming back here at all, but after hearing how WDW will be making exceptions for people with 'emergencies' and 'dining delays' it occurs to me that almost nothing will be changing and the real purpose is to attempt to condition guests to one way of doing things (knowing that many will simply show up at Soarin at 8:11 with a FP that expired at 6:45 and about the service at Le cellier and the $8 an hour CM will let them walk right in!) ... figuring they will HAVE to tighten things up as more of the NEXT GEN project tech comes online.

So, it's really going to largely be more of the same for quite a while.

I just wish there was something at WDW worth getting a FP and arguing about its time period for ... maybe in 2034?

 

[Tom]

Well it does say Service RECOVERY... This is guidance for CMs on what to do in exception cases and how to ensure a consistent customer service level.

And note the blurb sent out did not explain the exceptions that we see CMs posting about as well. So I don't really see these things as conflicting... just that an equivalent 'reminder' notice like the one you posted will obviously have to be updated to match their new exception handling policies.

Good point...I hadn't considered that at first. This Job Helper represents "last resort". Just like a restaurant or store giving a refund, which is the LAST RESORT, after offering equal items, store credit, free products, etc.

So, this poster doesn't actually reflect "policy" - it reflects the last ditch efforts permitted to keep a guest from going completely bonkers.

 

[KevinYee]

If they will indeed allow CMs to make judgment calls for dining problems and emergencies, then they have effectively made FASTPASS into something like the GAC.

Disney doesn't require doctor's notes for the Guest Assistance Card (GAC), meaning that you can get one for merely demanding it. Quite obviously, many people need it. But since there is no proof required, anyone who wishes to lie can get one too.

When Disneyland had Special Assistance Pass (SAP) problems in the early 2000s, they switched to the GAC system and ratcheted up the difficulty. You couldn't just *ask* for a card then, you had to lie (if you were lying) and say what your condition was. They made the system a bit more "uphill". If you wanted to gain advantage, you could no longer just demand your pass, you had to lie about it (again, I'm not talking about those with an actual need, but the cheaters).

The new late return policy looks like it might be similar. If you lie hard enough / well enough, you'll get what you want.

Makes you wonder if they are sending the right signal. But then again, to some extent this has always been true at Disney parks.

There's probably a large chunk of folks who have used late return when it was allowed, but won't actively lie to do it post-March. My family falls into that camp.

 

[WDW1974]

If some of us hadn't been told by cast members that it was within the rules to use a fastpass late, we wouldn't have ever done it in the first place. Just like (speaking for myself) I don't cut in line or refill old mugs or do anything else that CM's make clear is not allowed (those things seem inherently wrong to me anyway, since "don't cut" and "don't steal" are lessons that go all the way back to pre-school; fastpass usage is more of a gray area).

As a proud soda thief (to be fair, I haven't done so in over two years since all my mugs are packed away for a move that may or may not happen), I think folks need to leave that issue out or start a great new mug thread about thieves and morals and poor Disney etc.

Disney had absolutely no policy regarding the mugs when they first came out (CBR, FW and Contemporary all had them long before any others). NONE. I know that from a retired Food and Beverage manager. There was never a thought they were going to have dozens of resorts and the mugs would be around forever and there would be an Internet with folks talking about things like this.

Area manager made policy and most told guests they could bring them back when they returned. Even when the mugs went resortwide in the 90s, that was the oral policy/contract conveyed when guests bought mugs. I heard it enough and bought enough of them to know. It was only in the late 90s that a few low level managers looking to rise started talking about guests using them over again (one would guess that if Disney weighed the thousands of dollars those guests spent vs. perhaps losing a dollar on a week's stay, they sorta realized that it wasn't an issue) ... They did want to discourage this from continuing realizing mugs had become a gold mine (I believe some of my first cost about $4.99 and were actual quality unlike what they make today!) and came up with a written policy that I first saw around 2002. But even then, managers were told to basically let anything go (which really is the problem ... people coming in with dirty used two liter bottles and stealing soda, not someone who bought a PO mug in 1998 and stayed there 14 times using it over and over again!)

This is the problem of not having real written policies or even oral ones and making things up as you along.

If I could pull my WL mug out of a box, believe me I'd be filling it up if I stopped by Roaring Fork on my next visit!

 

[KevinYee]

"Guest Recovery" is not code for 'last resort'. It's code for 'make someone ed into someone happy." For the majority of times, it's the "first" resort rather than the "last" resort.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

This is the problem of not having real written policies or even oral ones and making things up as you along.

If I could pull my WL mug out of a box, believe me I'd be filling it up if I stopped by Roaring Fork on my next visit!

I think that's a fair point, and I've heard the same thing about the original refillable mug (that guests were basically told it was good forever).

But now, I think it's pretty clear that buying a new mug no longer gives you the right to get refills after your stay ends. People can continue to try whatever they want, but if a CM sees someone pulling out their "Celebrate" mug (or worse, a post-2002 resort-specific mug), I wouldn't be surprised if they stop the guest from filling up. (If they don't, then I think Disney really needs to work on the consistency of the message they're sending to guests - frankly, it sounds like you can get whatever you want if you complain hard enough)

 

[WDW1974]

If they will indeed allow CMs to make judgment calls for dining problems and emergencies, then they have effectively made FASTPASS into something like the GAC.

Disney doesn't require doctor's notes for the Guest Assistance Card (GAC), meaning that you can get one for merely demanding it. Quite obviously, many people need it. But since there is no proof required, anyone who wishes to lie can get one too.

When Disneyland had Special Assistance Pass (SAP) problems in the early 2000s, they switched to the GAC system and ratcheted up the difficulty. You couldn't just *ask* for a card then, you had to lie (if you were lying) and say what your condition was. They made the system a bit more "uphill". If you wanted to gain advantage, you could no longer just demand your pass, you had to lie about it (again, I'm not talking about those with an actual need, but the cheaters).

The new late return policy looks like it might be similar. If you lie hard enough / well enough, you'll get what you want.

Makes you wonder if they are sending the right signal. But then again, to some extent this has always been true at Disney parks.

There's probably a large chunk of folks who have used late return when it was allowed, but won't actively lie to do it post-March. My family falls into that camp.

That would be me as well, Kev. I'm not lying my way onto any Disney attraction unless I have a dying child with me who wants to ride ... it just isn't that important at all. But I absolutely 'gamed' the system FAIRLY so long as it allowed it ... I always thought I did a service as I find so many of FP's on the ground or on top of trash cans etc. If Disney can't sweep them up, then I'll pick 'em up and ride!

The thing is liars get away with things no matter what. Your GAC point is a fine example. And I do believe Disney should require (although I am not sure of the legalities) people to bring notes from doc's ... who, of course, NEVER lie when asked to by the people who pay them, right?

I have watched people go into City Hall with legit claims where they should have been offered some form of recovery (be it tix, food vouchers, gift items) and were basically pleading and were given the 'there's nothing I can do, but I thank you for letting us know ... have a MAGICal night ... NEXT!':fork: ... At the same time, the cast of Jersey Shore Theme Park Edition walks in and it's obvious by the way they act that even if they have the slightest real issue, they deserve nothing as they hurl f-bombs and invective at the CMs and they ... well, they walk out with dinner at the Cindy's or handful of tickets or in some cases actual refunds.

I'd love to retrain the whole staff in the Disney Way and Scamming 101 in the Disney Lifestyle Era.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

"Guest Recovery" is not code for 'last resort'. It's code for 'make someone ed into someone happy." For the majority of times, it's the "first" resort rather than the "last" resort.

But with late fastpasses, they never even said anything like "this fastpass is expired. We'll let you ride, but please made an effort to be on time in the future."

In the first situation (using a fastpass for the wrong attraction), the CM is clearly supposed to explain things to the guest, and then make it right. I think the lack of any commentary regarding late FP's has helped to make it more widespread, by causing guests to not even perceive an issue in the first place.

 

[Tom]

I swore I wasn't coming back here at all, but after hearing how WDW will be making exceptions for people with 'emergencies' and 'dining delays' it occurs to me that almost nothing will be changing and the real purpose is to attempt to condition guests to one way of doing things (knowing that many will simply show up at Soarin at 8:11 with a FP that expired at 6:45 and about the service at Le cellier and the $8 an hour CM will let them walk right in!) ... figuring they will HAVE to tighten things up as more of the NEXT GEN project tech comes online.

So, it's really going to largely be more of the same for quite a while.

I just wish there was something at WDW worth getting a FP and arguing about its time period for ... maybe in 2034?

Quite right. They're going to publish the new rule, and they'll have CMs at the kiosks to remind every guest of the new rules....but ultimately, the CMs at the FP queue entrances are going to cave and implement Guest Recovery guidelines so that they don't have to turn away every fan boy.

Maybe, over the course of a few years, they can re-train society into following the newly enforced rule. And perhaps this is exactly their goal, knowing that it will take that long to get it to work, just in time for them to roll out NextGen.

As for whether or not there's something worth getting a FP for, that's obviously relative and subjective. For me, I value MY time enough to justify the use of the system. If it means I can use my time more wisely, and spend less time standing in line, it wins.

 

[maxairmike]

...The thing is liars get away with things no matter what. Your GAC point is a fine example. And I do believe Disney should require (although I am not sure of the legalities) people to bring notes from doc's ... who, of course, NEVER lie when asked to by the people who pay them, right? ...

You can thank the ADA for that, as it is an issue at any major theme/amusement park. I saw it way too often at parks I work(ed) at.

 

[Tom]

"Guest Recovery" is not code for 'last resort'. It's code for 'make someone ed into someone happy." For the majority of times, it's the "first" resort rather than the "last" resort.

Sort of. I guess you could say there are levels, with steps leading up to the actual last resort.

For example, the policy at a specific fast food establishment I know is that, when a guest complains, you first offer a comp/equal replacement. Then you offer a different product. Then you offer an additional product. Finally, you ask what would make them happy. You only do a refund if they specifically request it. This is very common in the QSR industry.

Likewise, looking at that graphic, it would seem that some of those items should be ranked, as opposed to being the first course of action. Letting someone trade a Pooh fastpass for a RnRC fastpass seems like a pretty drastic measure for someone who has just walked up and presented a wrong fastpass. In my opinion, that would be the "last resort" to make that guest happy, after trying other measures.

But, since FPs are free and ignoring a rule doesn't cost WDW any money, it just becomes the "first resort" because nobody on the WDW side of the fence wants any conflict. So, then, over time, you gradually set a precedent that FP holders don't have to maintain any personal responsibility whatsoever.

 

[WDW1974]

"Guest Recovery" is not code for 'last resort'. It's code for 'make someone ed into someone happy." For the majority of times, it's the "first" resort rather than the "last" resort.

I think Guest Recovery at WDW stinks. I'd love to sit around City Hall with you (of course, the CMs would absolutely know who we were and what we were doing) and just observe.

On my last visit, I saw the two sides of it. I had to deal with five CMs at three different ticket windows and kill almost 70 minutes to get an $11 refund (renewed my AP after prices went up and were told to simply bring the letter with the old price and I'd get the money back ... no one at DAK Guest Relations had a clue and despite me being a Charter APer -- which should but doesn't mean absolutely anything and all (except the final person, a nice woman from Rhode Island) were VERY suspicious that I was trying to steal $11 from Disney. ***As an aside, the Spirit isn't a thief, but if he were I can guarantee you he wouldn't even attempt stealing anything unless we were talking about seven figures (used to be eight, but times are tough!)***

After wasting all my time, I didn't even get an apology from the manager who somehow was clueless that Disney actually was honoring prices quoted to people in renewal letters. And after wasting all that time of mine (theme park time is money, right?) she should have said 'here, dinner's on me for wasting so much of your time and accusing you of not knowing the facts. Sorry, sir.'' But, no, nothing and I wasn't going to suggest it (but in today's world I probably should have demanded it!)

At the window next to me, well the final of three, some other woman almost broke down in tears (I didn't hear enough to get a gut feeling on whether to believe her.) because she and her hubby apparently had some issue where their tickets went to Fantasyland and the GR CM decided to just print her $500 worth of tix on the spot (clearly there wasn't a way of verifying her story or anything). Now, if the woman was being honest, she got GREAT Guest Recovery. If not, she scammed Disney out of $500 in ticket media ... but either way, I couldn't help feel that because I was professional, kind but forceful (because I KNEW I was right) that I got jerked around to get my HUGE $11 refunded. They also just hated that they had to give me cash since I didn't have the AmEx I bought said tix with at the time.

It's a very strange world in Guest Relations.

 

[flynnibus]

Sort of. I guess you could say there are levels, with steps leading up to the actual last resort.

You're splitting hairs.. the jist is simply this is about saving a customer service interaction. It doesn't matter if this is first, last, or whatever. It's guidance on what to do for customer service when these conditions arise.

For any of these, if it didn't work, they'd still pull in a Lead and go from there.

Recovery refers to 'saving' a situation. How to turn that frown.. upside down.

 

[WDW1974]

I think that's a fair point, and I've heard the same thing about the original refillable mug (that guests were basically told it was good forever).

They absolutely were. And it wasn't one location ... it was everywhere from the Poly to the WL to PO to the All Stars (and I have mugs from all of them!) ... And it wasn't CPers either, it came from location area managers. That has to be good enough for guests. That would be like a local McD's giving you free fries and you deciding they must be out to destroy their employer and calling the national HQ to get a legal policy.

As far as I am concerned, my mugs are good forever at the resorts where they were purchased and I was told as much, even though I well understand that TDO would prefer that I simply bought a new one. It's just prinicple to me and the desire to get as much value as I can from a corp that just as badly wants to take every dollar I own. Greed works both ways and, no, I don't think it's good but until we force changes on Wall Street then I believe folks have every right to try and game the system the best they can.

But now, I think it's pretty clear that buying a new mug no longer gives you the right to get refills after your stay ends. People can continue to try whatever they want, but if a CM sees someone pulling out their "Celebrate" mug (or worse, a post-2002 resort-specific mug), I wouldn't be surprised if they stop the guest from filling up. (If they don't, then I think Disney really needs to work on the consistency of the message they're sending to guests - frankly, it sounds like you can get whatever you want if you complain hard enough)

I agree. If I check into OKW (where I don't have a mug), then I'd buy one if I wanted it and would follow the new policy THERE. ... But I have never, ever, ever saw a CM stop anyone attempting to fill up anything (from old mugs to empty water bottles and Wendy's cups -- and I actually DO have a big problem with that for sanitary reasons!) because the people are going to be confrontational and unless the CM is physically imposing they'll be ignored ... and Disney isn't looking for physical confrontations over soda that costs them pennies or to throw out a family that has three rooms rented for a week because they're taking Spirte or Fanta. It just isn't worth it. I actually have a mug from the A$$ and with their new system if I stayed there (no plans, but was there a few years ago) I'd ask point blank if they were going to give me a new mug or a cup with the RFID chip or I'd simply walk next door the ASMu and dine there (mugs were always interchangable at sister resorts, although I have one from there too!

Disney creates its own messes and then makes them worse by not standardizing things and enforcing what needs to be enforced.

~Loves Mug Threads Almost as Much as Fanboi Tears~

 

[WDW1974]

Quite right. They're going to publish the new rule, and they'll have CMs at the kiosks to remind every guest of the new rules....but ultimately, the CMs at the FP queue entrances are going to cave and implement Guest Recovery guidelines so that they don't have to turn away every fan boy.

Maybe, over the course of a few years, they can re-train society into following the newly enforced rule. And perhaps this is exactly their goal, knowing that it will take that long to get it to work, just in time for them to roll out NextGen.

As for whether or not there's something worth getting a FP for, that's obviously relative and subjective. For me, I value MY time enough to justify the use of the system. If it means I can use my time more wisely, and spend less time standing in line, it wins.

I am (think I started out by saying this) ambivalent about FP. I think the parks were absolutely better without it. But I also think if used correctly and optimally it can be a good thing.

At WDW, sadly, there's never anything that's a must anymore for me. So, if I ride something, I ride. If I wait in SB, then so be it. I won't wait more than 30 minutes for anything, so I'm generally fine no matter what.

I do value it more at DLP because I get there less and there's more to see (BTMRR is always a MUST there for a FP and ToT -- especially if the phenomenal Sebastian is working:wave: -- too). And I definitely made sure to use it to the max at TDR because I had never been. But I was also warned of lines that could be 2-4 hours long for all the popular rides and, frankly, other than the first day at TDL there was never a real need for FP. I came home with more FPs as mementos than I used at TDS in two days.

But I readily admit I don't tour WDW like the typical guest or even the typical MAGICal fanboi does.

~Hey, Phoebe!~

 

[Goofybynature]

Ok, here is a take from a current WDW attractions cast member who is currently working on a FP attraction ride.

- I for one will not be caving into any guest who will turn up late. However I will use common sense in the matter (not saying my fellow CMs will do the same).example: If there FP expires at 12:00 and they turn up at 1220 - I would let them in as its only 5 past the expiration point. If I do cave in I risk the likely hood of disciplinary action based on breaking the companies policy. No guest is worth losing my job over or promotion opportunities too.

- Guest should be held responsible to acquiring FP's when they are able too. For instance if they have a reservation at a certain time, don't get a FP for that time either. It really is common sense. Also the whole attraction breaking down thing. I also work at an attraction in my area which has a lot of mechanical problems, but as soon as we go 101 we make announcements to guests informing them of the delay and we are required to repeat them every 2-3 mins. You, as the guest, have a choice. Stay in line for the ride and wait or head to one of our other Disney attractions that is open or go back and use the FP. Those are the options to our guests. We do our very best to keep those rides running despite what a few people may think on this forum. Stuck across the park is something that can be fixed by common sense too, if you know you have to return for that time, give yourself plenty of time to get there or simply stay in that area. If you choose to use FP, adhere to its policies.

- What a few guests (one's I presume abuse the loop holes offered at disney such as FP) don't seem to grasp is that although they are paying a lot of money to come to our parks it doesn't mean that the whole park revolves around them. 30-40k also paid for the same rights and because they want to abuse the system it worsens someone else's experience. For instance if just 5 guests come back late for their FP window, on average its makes the guest doing FP correctly have to wait an extra 5 mins in line, unfairly, but also the guests standing in the standby line have to wait 10 mins longer. Now is that fair. It is not. It would be nice to see guests who do it correctly not being budged or lose out by someone who doesn't. Again - If you choose to use FP, adhere to its policies.

- Oh and as a perk with these windows being enforced. Standby lines will reduce in wait time. Now who doesn't benefit in that!

Put quite frankly, THIS 'new' POLICY IS NOTHING NEW, its just now that we WILL be enforcing it correctly. All those guest's on here who use the system correctly, thank you very much and we appreciate you adhering it the policy's and hope you enjoyed your fp experience. To those who think they can still dodge the system, I'm sorry but this change has to be made for the fairness of all guests. And if you still don't like it, your always welcome to use our standby lines. If guests had always been using this system correctly then it wouldn't of got to this point

 

[RSoxNo1]

Saying that it's "nothing new" isn't correct. We know that the official policy prior to March 7th was allowing for late returns, that's why the change is significant.

 

[PhilharMagician]

I just wish they'd stop worrying about stuff like this.

The biggest complaint about Disney is the crowds. Usually the very first question asked to a person/family who has just returned is "Was it crowded?/ How were the lines?"


Build some new high caliber attractions that have a high capacity. More rides give more people things to do and spreads your crowd, hopefully thinning them out.

Toy Story Mania, to me, is a failure. The ride is super popular and cannot handle the masses. Capacity is too low, either with the ride, with the park in general, or a combo of both.

Then there are many rides that would be considered a failure. TT, Soarin' maybe even RnRC. All of these and many other have really have capacity issues. Truthfully, all of the park in general have capacity issues @ WDW and not just during the busy holiday seasons.

What's funny to me is how many people here thought that the window was always being adhered to or enforced. Then some of those same people say "they're glad it's going to be enforced". Well, if you thought it already was being enforced and you didn't notice any problems, doesn't that say something against the argument that late FP's were "ruining" the stand by lines?

If even only 5% of guests return with the FP's later in the day than scheduled and these numbers compound throughout the day you will be loading the FP line with more guests late in the day then you did earlier in the morning. Thus the guest throughput on the SB line will be slowed as it is increased in the FP line since the FP line gets a higher priority.

The overall guest capacity per hour on the ride in most cases cannot change. Some rides to allow for extra ride vehicles to be added.

 

[mickeyminiemom]

- What a few guests (one's I presume abuse the loop holes offered at disney such as FP) don't seem to grasp is that although they are paying a lot of money to come to our parks it doesn't mean that the whole park revolves around them. 30-40k also paid for the same rights and because they want to abuse the system it worsens someone else's experience.

[/B]

DING DING we have a winner!!!!