News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[Bocabear]

But not cheap to run relative to guest count. Disney actually would rather have FEWER M&Gs but people demand them. Having all of the character actors plus all of the attendants required for something like the Mickey M&G at Epcot (with three characters) to get an hourly throughput of about 250 guests per hour (REALLY!) is not an efficient use of money.

Four 3-D shows in each park would be better. But repetitious.

No...but how long could they run a hug zone before it would hit the 120 million mark in operational expenses?
I also think the demand has been inflated by Disney themselves...
If there were less character meeting oportunities and more attractions, people would be just as happy... but as long as they keep hyping the Character Meet and Greets, they will have the demand.
When I was a kid at WDW, the Characters just occasionally appeared...there was no garantee of meeting them... and that was fine with everyone...there was plenty to do...and if you did meet a character it was an extra special thing... But then as they reduced the amount of attractions running in the park, there had to be somethng to do... and voila! Princess Hug Zones! Hourly throughput doesn't really matter...it keeps people busy for hours and they don't notice there are lass actual rides because they just wasted an hour and a half to meet a college kid making a low hourly wage in a costume and their equally paid handler...

 

[Horizons '83]

With the way Disney wastes money i wouldn't doubt it but I feel they could do it for less.

Please don't take this as offensive, but Disney is one of the fiscally responsible corporations out there. Its pretty comical that you would think you know that Disney "wastes" money. Disney doesn't waste money, they rake it in. What you might think is a "waste" is a strategy. You have quite the guts to think that you know what is wasteful or not from your cubical chair on a WDW message board.

I am not naive to think they haven't gone over budget on several projects, but here is the deal, every project a corporation starts is over budget and if they aren't, they sand bagged the initial budget number.

 

[mickey v-neck]

Please don't take this as offensive, but Disney is one of the fiscally responsible corporations out there. Its pretty comical that you would think you know that Disney "wastes" money. Disney doesn't waste money, they rake it in. What you might think is a "waste" is a strategy. You have quite the guts to think that you know what is wasteful or not from your cubical chair on a WDW message board.

I am not naive to think they haven't gone over budget on several projects, but here is the deal, every project a corporation starts is over budget and if they aren't, they sand bagged the initial budget number.

It's comical in the real world, but it's the accepted groupthink on this board. If you disagree, you're a troll.

 

[Horizons '83]

It's comical in the real world, but it's the accepted groupthink on this board. If you disagree, you're a troll.

Fair enough, I can agree with that.

 

[Mike S]

"Great ideas never die at Imagineering"

Courtesy of @marni1971 and @Lee

 

[Magenta Panther]

EPCOT Center was once a 2 day park. Most attractions in Future World were 12 - 20 minutes long. Now most are in the 5 minute range and I'm not certain that Epcot is even a full-on 1 day park.

It doe$n't add up for the Company.

The only reason I go to Epcot is for World Showcase. The rest doesn't interest me, sad to say.

 

[Magenta Panther]

It truly is heartbreaking though. I'm sure there are some who are so snug because their idea of having cartoons in Epcot may finally happen and their little princess will be pleased. Yet I hope nobody ever forgets the wonder and majesty of EPCOT Center.

I wish I'd experienced it. Apparently, most of the good stuff was already gone by the time I visited.

 

[mickhyperion]

But someone somewhere is imagining super expensive themed bathrooms

...with very cheap, narrow, single-ply toilet paper.

 

[Nickels5]

"Great ideas never die at Imagineering"
View attachment 146265 View attachment 146266 View attachment 146267 View attachment 146268
Courtesy of @marni1971 and @Lee

Would love if they added Brazil as a country, I think it would make an excellent addition.

 

[Wikkler]

Just found this article about Project Gemini...

https://blog.modernmouseradio.com/2012/11/03/the-world-that-never-was-time-racers/

According to the article, Project Gemini had a budget of $500 million. Adjusted for inflation, what is that today?

Any way, this new project of $350 million is definitely a fraction of what Gemini was.

It's about $650 mil today, but Disney's own inflation has also gotten worse.

 

[Wikkler]

I've seen this question before. I mean no offense in saying this (I have computers, phones and tablets myself that I love), but it's somewhat short sighted to think Disney would be unable to "keep up" based solely on these devices.

EPCOT's glimpses into the future were far more grand. Certainly there were areas such as Communicore and Innoventions that focused on more everyday leaps in technology. But the larger scale attractions handled future prediction on another level entirely, the focus was on much bigger and more ambitious things than cellphones or computers. Horizons had scenes depicting underwater cities and space colonies, which are still largely out of reach (even for the very rich, let alone for the average person). Any updates required would have actually been more aesthetic than conceptual, not that hard to imagine Horizons existing in this day and age had it just been given some minor tweaks over the years.

There was actually generally a greater emphasis on looking into the past than the future. The vast majority of Spaceship Earth covers ancient history, moreso than anything futuristic. Same goes for World of Motion. Only the last couple of scenes (which are easily changed without replacing the rest of the ride) depicted anything remotely futuristic. Even the first half of Horizons is dedicated to how people from the early 1900's into the mid 1900's thought the future would turn out (all these scenes would require no changes whatsoever). Imagination was never about future prediction, it was about how the mind takes "sparks" of abstract thought and uses them for creativity (art, performances and science).

While i'm sure the creators didn't intend for the rides themselves to be gutted and replaced entirely, they did intend certain aspects of the park to be continually updated (particularly Communicore and Innoventions). Spaceship Earth was one example that was updated multiple times, it is on its fourth version now. Horizons was also intended to get a similar upgrade before a new sponsor arrived and mandated a different attraction. Many attractions didn't need much updating at all, just occasional upgrades to projectors or animatronic or whatever.

It's sad that people think that Google or Wikipedia can replace EPCOT Center. Google can provide the facts, but can it provide the philosophy? The inspiration?

 

[Progress.City]

Already stated, that was from undeveloped swampland. It was also including World Showcase, and we're only discussing Future World right now. The buildings are already there, they just need to fill them with better attractions and do some minor cosmetic work here and there.

I think you could potentially fix Future World for $1 billion, maybe less actually. Another benefit is that Future World doesn't really require a lot of expensive rockwork, which would save countless millions if they didn't use any.

First of all, the budget is $350 million, not a billion. So, we have to make the best of it. We should also feel grateful that they gave WDI such a big budget.

For argument sake, let's say that $350 million could bring Future World back to how it was was during the 1980's, do we really want this? Is this the best way to spend $350 million? I remember riding JiI, for example, and the set props were literally falling apart everywhere. I remember the ride would break down at least daily. There were times that they told everyone on line to ride it to disband and come back later when it's fixed. I remember riding it and it broke down and they actually made us get out of our ride vehicles and walk to the nearest exit.

Rebuilding that ride as it was with everything that could break and go wrong would not be a good use of those funds. Especially because of the increased cost to operate it because they will need to constantly be fixing it.

However, if you can build a new ride in the same original spirit that is equally exciting or better - a ride with less props and less moving parts that could break down with a lower operating cost - within the allocated budget, that would be better.

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[ford91exploder]

First of all, the budget is $350 million, not a billion. So, we have to make the best of it. We should also feel grateful that they gave WDI such a big budget.

For argument sake, let's say that $350 million could bring Future World back to how it was was during the 1980's, do we really want this? Is this the best way to spend $350 million? I remember riding JiI, for example, and the set props were literally falling apart everywhere. I remember the ride would break down at least daily. There were times that they told everyone on line to ride it to disband and come back later when it's fixed. I remember riding it and it broke down and they actually made us get out of our ride vehicles and walk to the nearest exit.

Rebuilding that ride as it was with everything that could break and go wrong would not be a good use of those funds. Especially because of the increased cost to operate it because they will need to constantly be fixing it.

However, if you can build a new ride in the same original spirit that is equally exciting or better - a ride with less props and less moving parts that could break down with a lower operating cost - within the allocated budget, that would be better.

Wouldn't you agree?

$350 million, That builds some themed bathrooms at WDW these days....

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

@Progress.City

1 billion was just a random sum I feel COULD be sufficient in fixing Future World. I doubt anyone feels the supposed $350 million is enough to correct FW's problems. And i'm not sure Disney does either, they may well have increased the budget if they go through with the "big plans" Martin hinted.

I never mentioned rebuilding the rides as-is either. You misread. I just said they have existing building shells they can use instead of building new ones from scratch (which would save a lot of money). Doesn't mean I expect them to rebuild all the original rides as-is.

I would be happy with Imagination's original form returning though. There's better animatronic tech, better projectors and most of all better computers now to make it shine again. The archaic computers of the time having issues with the complex turntable and vehicle synchronization is said to be a leading reason for breakdowns. Issues that would not exist with today's computers.

As for sets falling apart- All rides fall apart when you don't maintain them. A different ride won't fare any better when the problem lies with management and maintenance not doing their job properly. Imagination's props and sets were no more troublesome to keep in good shape than any other Disney ride. There are plenty of other rides at WDW that are in dilapidated condition (Small World, The Land, Buzz Lightyear, Big Thunder, Expedition Everest, Dinosaur etc). Just fix them by doing third shift touch-ups and refurbs for more substantial work.

 

[Progress.City]

What happened to that cool FW pic that was just posted?

I was about to comment that about the pic's amazing symmetry of color, with the blue on the LS pavillion on the left and the red, orange, and yellow on the UoE pavilion on the right. I never noticed such symmetry and balance before. It just shows how Imagineers back then went out of their way for every little detail - even those details we can only see from a bird's eye view from the air.

Such visuals, like that pic is very relative to this discussion, as it symbolizes the park's former glory that we want restored.

 

[Progress.City]

@Progress.City

1 billion was just a random sum I feel COULD be sufficient in fixing Future World. I doubt anyone feels the supposed $350 million is enough to correct FW's problems. And i'm not sure Disney does either, they may well have increased the budget if they go through with the "big plans" Martin hinted.

I never mentioned rebuilding the rides as-is either. You misread. I just said they have existing building shells they can use instead of building new ones from scratch (which would save a lot of money). Doesn't mean I expect them to rebuild all the original rides as-is.

I would be happy with Imagination's original form returning though. There's better animatronic tech, better projectors and most of all better computers now to make it shine again. The archaic computers of the time having issues with the complex turntable and vehicle synchronization is said to be a leading reason for breakdowns. Issues that would not exist with today's computers.

As for sets falling apart- All rides fall apart when you don't maintain them. A different ride won't fare any better when the problem lies with management and maintenance not doing their job properly. Imagination's props and sets were no more troublesome to keep in good shape than any other Disney ride. There are plenty of other rides at WDW that are in dilapidated condition (Small World, The Land, Buzz Lightyear, Big Thunder, Expedition Everest, Dinosaur etc). Just fix them by doing third shift touch-ups and refurbs for more substantial work.

It's a Small World is a good example of a ride where the props constantly fall apart. I would never recommend a digital replacement of IaSW because that is such a classic, but Imagination's condition was similar to the state IaSW constantly gets into. For the record, I've never seen DL's version ever get into such a bad state like the MK version keeps falling into. The reason for the DL version always being in prestine condition could be because of better maintanance, but that's besides the point.

There was these two scenes in Imagination that I'm trying to remember that was particularly in bad condition that any breeze of air could easily make the placement of what looked like delicate paper or thin colored serane wrap fall and rip onto other props that would fall too like dominos. The scenes were that white room and another scene that used clear color flexible sheets of paper thin plastic to create wave effects. Those sheets constantly were ripped and fallen from where they were supposed to hanging or glued to. Years later, I noticed that prop was completely removed instead of being rebuilt, but the room felt "empty" without that effect.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I wouldn't expect every single prop or effect to be 100% identical in a new version. There's plenty they can do with modern tech to improve certain elements. The elements you mentioned would probably get some very cool new digital mapping effects if recreated today. Tony Baxter even mentioned in the D23 presentation on the ride that he'd like to go back and rebuild the scenes with a lot of modern technology.

Disneyland's maintenance is a common discussion point in its favor currently. It did have its own dark age of dilapidation in the late 90's and early 2000's, but it got a management change that cleaned the place up considerably for the 50th. They've kept the maintenance at a higher standard since (I don't know whether Michael Colglazier's influence has negatively impacted this standard). WDW has been decaying for some time and needs a huge cleanup and change in management structure, though i'm not sure if it will ever happen (it took a massive fan revolt and PR nightmare for Disneyland to change its ways).

 

[shortstop]

I wouldn't expect every single prop or effect to be 100% identical in a new version. There's plenty they can do with modern tech to improve certain elements. The elements you mentioned would probably get some very cool new digital mapping effects if recreated today. Tony Baxter even mentioned in the D23 presentation on the ride that he'd like to go back and rebuild the scenes with a lot of modern technology.

Disneyland's maintenance is a common discussion point in its favor currently. It did have its own dark age of dilapidation in the late 90's and early 2000's, but it got a management change that cleaned the place up considerably for the 50th. They've kept the maintenance at a higher standard since (I don't know whether Michael Colglazier's influence has negatively impacted this standard). WDW has been decaying for some time and needs a huge cleanup and change in management structure, though i'm not sure if it will ever happen (it took a massive fan revolt and PR nightmare for Disneyland to change its ways).

Even Disneyland's maintenance isn't perfect. For the better part of 2015, the majority of the AAs in Splash's finale weren't moving. Overall things are in good shape but by no means are they perfect still.

 

[WEDwaydatamover]

All of Future World is not hopeless.

Spaceship Earth could definitely benefit from a better narration and ending. Morgan Freeman?

The Land is fairly solid. If only the interior didn't feel like a cold airport. It would be nice to leave the original film in one of the 3 theatres. Inject mind-blowing growing methods into Living with the Land.

I think The Seas with Nemo is a lost cause.

Imagination should be the centerpiece of Epcot. WDI should incorporate every trick and illusion they have to offer and blow the capstone off the place.

Test Track is solid.

Mission Space could use new hd projections and more random ride sequences.

Universe of Energy. I love it but I don't know where version 3.0 is?

No more character infusions please! And bring back the songs, if only background music.

 

[munchiezxx]

All of Future World is not hopeless.

Spaceship Earth could definitely benefit from a better narration and ending. Morgan Freeman?

The Land is fairly solid. If only the interior didn't feel like a cold airport. It would be nice to leave the original film in one of the 3 theatres. Inject mind-blowing growing methods into Living with the Land.

I think The Seas with Nemo is a lost cause.

Imagination should be the centerpiece of Epcot. WDI should incorporate every trick and illusion they have to offer and blow the capstone off the place.

Test Track is solid.

Mission Space could use new hd projections and more random ride sequences.

Universe of Energy. I love it but I don't know where version 3.0 is?

No more character infusions please! And bring back the songs, if only background music.

This is exactly how I feel. Now if only we could get something into Wonders of Life it'd be great.
Imagination! is so special to me, I really want to see it succeed.