News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[lazyboy97o]

From a design perspective, I don't understand why pressure washing wasn't taken into consideration. They had to know that pavement in a theme park is going to be pressure washed. The materials used and the rundown look of the light covers so early in the project's life cycle points to value engineering or overall lack of competency. Both are a bad look considering the time, expense and disruption that went into this project in the first place.

Not being able to be pressure washed isn’t actually something new or all that unusual. It’s a harsh process that can easily destroy a lot of scenic design work.

 

[Virtual Toad]

Not being able to be pressure washed isn’t actually something new or all that unusual. It’s a harsh process that can easily destroy a lot of scenic design work.

Agreed, but again, isn't pressure washing the pavement fairly SOP for a theme park? Why install the lighting in such a way that it wouldn't be able to withstand it? Was the plan to simply warn cleaning crews in perpetuity to be really super extra careful when cleaning around them? What alternative cleaning method would have been acceptable in terms of cleaning the pavement but not damaging the lights? Again, the materials used here look far too cheap for the environment they were placed into. And they're not holding up well. Perhaps the vendor made false promises in terms of durability. Perhaps the designers chose the wrong product to begin with, or pencil pushers forced the use of cheaper materials. Or the installers made mistakes. Or perhaps we should expect more from a global leader in themed entertainment?

 

[trainplane3]

Not being able to be pressure washed isn’t actually something new or all that unusual. It’s a harsh process that can easily destroy a lot of scenic design work.

I won't disagree but it's like they didn't think about how most of this area would work in general. To name some fun other issues:
- Brown rusted panels that can stain clothes
- Loose tables and chairs that needs CMs to check in on regularly
- A PhotoPass (or general CM) by the Walt statue at almost all times because at the media event someone climbed onto his lap and park ops went "oh that could be a problem".
- Tripping hazard when the SSE shows run and the middle area goes completely dark
- Don't power wash the light ribbon (they did and only damaged a smaller portion close to SSE and was repaired decently quick)
- And another fun story about construction issues in the middle area that were pretty minor but really sends home the point that no one thought much of this thing through. So minor that it shouldn't even be worth mentioning but something you'd expect to never be an issue.

If they couldn't consider the impact of the brown panels on clothes then it doesn't surprise me they told ops literally nothing. There's just a lot of weird ideas that didn't get any second thought about how guests could impact the area and how upkeep should happen.

 

[Incomudro]

Agreed, but again, isn't pressure washing the pavement fairly SOP for a theme park? Why install the lighting in such a way that it wouldn't be able to withstand it? Was the plan to simply warn cleaning crews in perpetuity to be really super extra careful when cleaning around them? What alternative cleaning method would have been acceptable in terms of cleaning the pavement but not damaging the lights? Again, the materials used here look far too cheap for the environment they were placed into. And they're not holding up well. Perhaps the vendor made false promises in terms of durability. Perhaps the designers chose the wrong product to begin with, or pencil pushers forced the use of cheaper materials. Or the installers made mistakes. Or perhaps we should expect more from a global leader in themed entertainment?

For sure.
The application of these lights had to be considered of course.
Or at least one would think.
A high traffic location in a hot and humid environment prone to frequent heavy rains.
A location that is going to receive its share of pressure washing - whether or not that was accidental.
If a lighting system was chosen that had specifics about not being power washed, that's a really boneheaded option to pick.
Just how careful and for how long was maintenance expected to remain that careful?
And these light lasted one night.
That kills me.
I don't think they're getting fixed.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Agreed, but again, isn't pressure washing the pavement fairly SOP for a theme park? Why install the lighting in such a way that it wouldn't be able to withstand it? Was the plan to simply warn cleaning crews in perpetuity to be really super extra careful when cleaning around them? What alternative cleaning method would have been acceptable in terms of cleaning the pavement but not damaging the lights? Again, the materials used here look far too cheap for the environment they were placed into. And they're not holding up well. Perhaps the vendor made false promises in terms of durability. Perhaps the designers chose the wrong product to begin with, or pencil pushers forced the use of cheaper materials. Or the installers made mistakes. Or perhaps we should expect more from a global leader in themed entertainment?

I won't disagree but it's like they didn't think about how most of this area would work in general. To name some fun other issues:
- Brown rusted panels that can stain clothes
- Loose tables and chairs that needs CMs to check in on regularly
- A PhotoPass (or general CM) by the Walt statue at almost all times because at the media event someone climbed onto his lap and park ops went "oh that could be a problem".
- Tripping hazard when the SSE shows run and the middle area goes completely dark
- Don't power wash the light ribbon (they did and only damaged a smaller portion close to SSE and was repaired decently quick)
- And another fun story about construction issues in the middle area that were pretty minor but really sends home the point that no one thought much of this thing through. So minor that it shouldn't even be worth mentioning but something you'd expect to never be an issue.

If they couldn't consider the impact of the brown panels on clothes then it doesn't surprise me they told ops literally nothing. There's just a lot of weird ideas that didn't get any second thought about how guests could impact the area and how upkeep should happen.

I don’t really have anything positive to say about this project beyond “It was supposed to be much worse”. I noted some prominent examples of weathering steel causing staining months ago when it first appeared.

What I do take issue with though is the constant gross oversimplification of design, construction and operations. It’s easy to say everything should be pressure washable but it’s not actually a true standard. Nor is pressure washing a singular thing, with variety based on actual pressure, nozzles and even technique. Saying everything should just be able to be hosed down at maximum pressure without concern is unrealistic and frankly even dishonest. That set of criteria is a huge hindrance to compelling themed design. That’s not to say designers don’t have a duty to provide some degree of ease of maintenance but theme parks by their nature are not easy to maintain.

This though is also all speculation which a big part of the issue. People just throw things out there, sometimes it sounds somewhat reasonable, and people just absolutely run with it.

 

[Virtual Toad]

I was merely speculating for what it's worth. Nor do I have any inside knowledge. However, I think it's reasonable to question why things go wrong and ponder how poor outcomes such as this one could have been prevented. If the lights were designed not to withstand a certain degree of pressure washing, but were designed to withstand a different degree of pressure washing, how would that be effectively communicated to the personnel doing the washing and, knowing the operational challenges involved in communicating that and ensuring that the washing would be performed consistently within those specialized standards, was the design they decided upon really the best choice available? Or is the failure due to something else entirely?

On a side note, you seem to really be irked every time someone speculates on these things. All I am doing is expressing my curiosity over how and why things are done. In my opinion, the choices made throughout this project leave much to be desired. But that's just an opinion, not some sort of expert analysis and I never claimed it to be. From where I'm standing, as an outside observer, the materials used in the in-ground LED installation do not seem to be up to the standard they should be for the environment in which they are installed. How quickly the installation failed and the ongoing poor condition of the install seem to make those questions valid. I apologize if simply asking those questions is offensive or too much of a bother.

 

[ChrisFL]

For sure.
The application of these lights had to be considered of course.
Or at least one would think.
A high traffic location in a hot and humid environment prone to frequent heavy rains.
A location that is going to receive its share of pressure washing - whether or not that was accidental.
If a lighting system was chosen that had specifics about not being power washed, that's a really boneheaded option to pick.
Just how careful and for how long was maintenance expected to remain that careful?
And these light lasted one night.
That kills me.
I don't think they're getting fixed.

It also sort of reminds me of when WDW first opened...things the Imagineers who lived in California didn't account for at first, like Florida weather...I'm reminded specifically of the outdoor queue for Haunted Mansion not being covered and possibly even the Teacups?

 

[V_L_Raptor]

Pressure washing aside, Florida is prone to exquisite volumes of rain during the summer months. To look at some of these cracked panels, pressure washing isn't necessary to flood the casing. Yes, someone really needed to think this through.

Whether it's from foot traffic, pressure washing, or outright (ridiculously premature) weathering, these devices are nowhere near up to the real conditions in which they were deployed. Disney failed here. Period.

 

[Sneaky]

In my opinion: Epcot and every Disney world park should have a “poster tunnel” esque area at the entrances with attraction posters. Doesn’t have to be a tunnel, but an area guests walk by

 

[Bocabear]

In my opinion: Epcot and every Disney world park should have a “poster tunnel” esque area at the entrances with attraction posters. Doesn’t have to be a tunnel, but an area guests walk by

huh? Why do we need a poster tunnel? Will people not know what attractions to go on if there is not a poster reminding you? I don't understand.....

 

[Sneaky]

huh? Why do we need a poster tunnel? Will people no know what attractions to go on if there is not a poster reminding you? I don't understand.....

I think the attraction posters are iconic, and I just thought having some area where they would be, tunnel or not, would be kidna fun as a smaller “signature” element of a park at wdw Yknow?

 

[Bocabear]

The original attraction [poster were very iconic....and much larger than the current ones at the MK tunnel. I wish they would bring back the larger silk-screened posters at the Magic Kingdom... don't see a real need for it to be at every park, or even how they would do that...

 

[nickys]

I think the attraction posters are iconic, and I just thought having some area where they would be, tunnel or not, would be kidna fun as a smaller “signature” element of a park at wdw Yknow?

Do you mean at every WDW park or every world-wide Disney park?

 

[Sneaky]

Do you mean at every WDW park or every world-wide Disney park?

Maybe start at wdw, then spread over time if it flows well at wdw?

 

[MisterPenguin]

I think the attraction posters are iconic, and I just thought having some area where they would be, tunnel or not, would be kidna fun as a smaller “signature” element of a park at wdw Yknow?

I have a clever idea on what to mount those posters. Here's a mock-up...

 

[nickys]

Maybe start at wdw, then spread over time if it flows well at wdw?

Really don’t understand why. I mean you’re actually arguing here for walls to be put up at every park entrance to stick posters on. People have generally had enough of walls being put up, I think they’d rather have open space.

It works at MK because you go through the tunnels to get in. It’s hard to see how it will work at the other parks.

 

[retr0gate]

Really don’t understand why. I mean you’re actually arguing here for walls to be put up at every park entrance to stick posters on. People have generally had enough of walls being put up, I think they’d rather have open space.

It works at MK because you go through the tunnels to get in. It’s hard to see how it will work at the other parks.

Could take the classic Disneyland approach

 

[Rich Brownn]

It also sort of reminds me of when WDW first opened...things the Imagineers who lived in California didn't account for at first, like Florida weather...I'm reminded specifically of the outdoor queue for Haunted Mansion not being covered and possibly even the Teacups?

They had to cover the teacups, cover the queues fro HM and HOP, and reroute the queue for CBJ through what had been stores (and are so again). Plus the drains often couldn't keep up and the area by the carousel frequents floods.

 

[gerarar]

My local mall looks nothing like this, but would like it to be!

 

[Bocabear]

preaching to the choir.....