News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

chiefs11

Well-Known Member
I get what you're saying.. It sucks, though. It's like if they said, "We're going to make Future World a traditional amusement park," I think people, overall, would feel about the same.. At least they'd be doing *something* even it it was to make it a nice Six Flags.

It just sucks to me that is where we are and we're here because the powers that be at Disney ignored the park for so long so anything seems like an improvement.

I even get the idea of, "old Epcot wasn't working," to a certain extent.

I've also wondered where people are with this. Some have already had enough and have given up and others love Epcot no matter what.

I actually thought it might be a fun thought experiment to ask: Take Epcot and now imagine that TWDC closes your least favorite attraction and raises prices some percentage (you can even pick the percentage), now, do you still go? Repeat.
- At what point do you say, "Ok, it sucks."

The other thing I've wondered is have we all just given up on themes? I say this because theme-encrouchment isn't new. I think you could go back to Splash Mountain and make a strong argument that it doesn't belong where it is (not sure where else would be better) but they seemed to kind of make it work. Tomorrowland has been hosed for a decade plus. Frozen is now a "country" (well, ride within a country but you get what I mean). What if they add, "The Daring Adventures of Pinocchio," to Italy? What if they put the old Snow White ride in Germany? Maybe they could put a Pooh ride in the UK or maybe Mary Poppins could take you on an adventure there?

My main thought on this is that, in the beginning, themes were important and they tried to stay true to the themes. Over time, and it's really not all that recent, they kind of fudged it and I'd argue that now we're basically abandoning the themes in favor of getting anything.

I see the GotG stuff and I think, "This would have made a great addition to DHS!" I see Pandora and think (well, first I don't think it's a strong IP - but secondly), "It would have been great in DHS!" There's a park for IPs which don't fit into MK and that's DHS. Now DHS is going to be, from what I can tell, a kind of weak Toy Story Land and Star Wars Experience (hopefully not weak).

All of this really goes back to the core of: Management didn't invest in the parks and, worse, doesn't seem to understand the uniqueness of the parks they have and are further doing damage by just ignoring the themes altogether. If Buzz Lightyear belongs in Tomorrowland then you can make a pretty good argument that he belongs in Fantasyland and, if you just buddy him up with Woody, now you can put him in Frontierland and now think about it: Buzz Lightyear (a space toy) is in Frontierland - it's OK because he's partnered with Woody and at least it's something.

I'm not knocking anyone here for this or that you feel something is better than nothing. I'm just saying that one of the important things that made this parks unique is being ignored and destroyed and we end up with this hodge-podge theming with Monsters Inc in Tomorrowland and Frozen in World Showcase.

You could put the new Tron Coaster in DAK at this point and I don't think management would get why it doesn't fit and I think others would say, "Well at least it's something..." (kind of defeated).

I just think that a few generations of bad execs are really doing some long-term damage and you can see it in people's defeated reactions. You still have leftovers from Eisner with, "People want to ride the movies!" and it's largely what we get these days. Not neat innovations but the next movie ride.
I agree with most of what you said, but Avatar fits better in Animal Kingdom then a lot of people want to acknowledge. Both AK and the Avatar movie share a theme of environmental conservation, and AK was always supposed to have a 'fantastical' area within the park.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
No. He said creative. Cupcake parties on the roof with a view of the Star Wars fireworks two miles away.

At least we are getting a new ride. And honestly, 40 minutes was a bit long for 2016. And this project is more ambitious than any GotG band aid at DHS would've been. Dare I say it, it will be fun. If misplaced. Like FEA but with appropriate capacity.

Maybe they can move the dinos (but not Ellen) to the dead space on Dinosaur.

This is my big takeaway. Frozen was misplaced, couldn't honour the scope it deserved and has obvious capacity constraints. It ended up actually being a pretty ok project minus those glaring three issues. From the sounds of things GoTG only suffers from the first.

So in the track record of recent Epcot projects, I don't have a whole lot to complain about.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
I would hope anything that will be taking over an entire pavilion would classify as an E ticket... I'd lean more towards a thrill ride based on the subject matter, but who knows... could be good either way.
Frozen just took over an entire pavilion...and it ain't an E ticket attraction.
 

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
I agree with most of what you said, but Avatar fits better in Animal Kingdom then a lot of people want to acknowledge. Both AK and the Avatar movie share a theme of environmental conservation, and AK was always supposed to have a 'fantastical' area within the park.

I get that.

Thinking about all of it a bit more: I think that the bigger problem is the overall lack of a theme / giving up on a theme. For example, say they were to just come out and say, "Epcot isn't working. We're gutting Future World and it'll no longer be Future World but <whatever theme> World." I think most would buy off on that.

I think if they came out and said, "World Showcase isn't working and we're going to keep the countries theme but all of the attractions will have a fantasy tie-in. Think of it like World Showcase Fantasyland!" People would scratch their heads a bit but I think they'd still buy off on it. You'd get Pinocchio in Italy, etc. but the old country-specific bits (360° films of China, Canada, and the French film removed and replaced with "Fantasyland"-like attractions.

What they seem to be doing is just ignoring the themes altogether and just kind of sticking attractions in places without any overall thought to it, and it's not new. If your argument is theme doesn't matter and we'll just stick things wherever we like then Dumbo looks great as a centerpiece to Main St right in front of the train station. Elephants for circuses used to be transported on circus trains so it fits! (if you want to pretend to slide a theme in - which is what they're doing today).
 

tribbleorlfl

Well-Known Member
While I wouldn't mind if they removed the marble monuments from the entry Plaza, I do hope they don't permanently destroy the steel image plates and can find some place to relocate them. I have two images on there, one with my grandfather in what was his final visit to Disney and one with my then girlfriend (and now wife) on our first visit to Disney together. We look them up every time we go.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
While I wouldn't mind if they removed the marble monuments from the entry Plaza, I do hope they don't permanently destroy the steel image plates and can find some place to relocate them. I have two images on there, one with my grandfather in what was his final visit to Disney and one with my then girlfriend (and now wife) on our first visit to Disney together. We look them up every time we go.
Maybe they will give them back to guests.
 

baymenxpac

Well-Known Member
I get what you're saying.. It sucks, though. It's like if they said, "We're going to make Future World a traditional amusement park," I think people, overall, would feel about the same.. At least they'd be doing *something* even it it was to make it a nice Six Flags.

It just sucks to me that is where we are and we're here because the powers that be at Disney ignored the park for so long so anything seems like an improvement.

I even get the idea of, "old Epcot wasn't working," to a certain extent.

so i want to focus on this part of your post, even though i think that the entirety of it is certainly worth a read.

i agree. the only thing i'll take umbrage with is lending any credence to the "old epcot wasn't working."

obviously, current management's thinking is largely short-sighted, what with stock buybacks and jacking up air conditioning to save pennies. but i really think they don't understand that they've changed the perception of the resort as a whole. when i was a little kid, i wanted to go to the MK and only the MK. i was a kid, what did i know?

but my parents made me go on everything in epcot, experience everything. stay awake in everything. and i learned something, and it unlocked something in me. it inspired me, even if i didn't realize that i was inspired until later in life. the original epcot center, and many other adult-oriented amenities that resort that have largely been overlooked or done away with, used to offer adults a reprieve from, "LOOK! IT'S MICKEY!" when everything isn't about kids, it's a lot easier to sell the whole family on making a trip to disney an annual vacation destination (and a heck of a lot easier to move the gobs of DVC inventory they keep creating).

you were supposed to grown into epcot center (and epcot center was supposed to grow with the times to keep it relevant). now, the resort actively asks you to suspend adulthood at every. single. turn. and i'm sorry, i don't want to do that every moment of every day. sometimes i want to think, or be made to feel something besides nostalgia (not to mention have a quiet --and stiff -- drink, maybe laugh at a risque comedy show). i don't want to take a selfie with a cupcake like i'm an 11 year old every second of the day.

so with that erosion, that evolution from being a resort for the whole family to an IP land, it to breeds that "gotta lug the kids at least once and get it over with" mentality, and it changes your entire customer base.

we have nostalgia for old disney because it was worth being nostalgic about. a nicer six flags with more popular IP just isn't.
 

P_Radden

Well-Known Member
While I wouldn't mind if they removed the marble monuments from the entry Plaza, I do hope they don't permanently destroy the steel image plates and can find some place to relocate them. I have two images on there, one with my grandfather in what was his final visit to Disney and one with my then girlfriend (and now wife) on our first visit to Disney together. We look them up every time we go.
Maybe they will give them back to guests.
I remember reading that they can be moved to another location on WDW property. I don't know if that means the monuments themselves or just the steel plates. I also believe that contact was for 15 years for signers and it ended in the mid 2000s. If I am remembering that correctly then some people still have a few years left of their contract.

Also, aren't those just pieces of granite attached to a steel frame, not solid rock?
 
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Wikkler

Well-Known Member
My Dinosaurs... and they're not even using the whole building as a ride by the sound of that last one.

Why is everything I loved about Epcot leaving? Next it's going to be SSE. Then Epcot will be officially dead to me with Ipcot rising from the ashes... :cry:
The "anti-museum" mentality has won. How depressing.
There is definitely a place for "edutainment" in this world, even though I despise that specific word.
Museums around the country aren't collapsing and deserted! Typhoon Lagoon was the most visited water park in the country last year, but the Natural History, National Gallery of Art, American History, and Air and Space Museums in D.C., the Met and Natural History Museums in New York, and probably others did better.
 
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PorterRedkey

Well-Known Member
The "museum" mentality has won. How depressing.
There is definitely a place for "edutainment" in this world, even though I despise that specific word.
Museums around the country aren't collapsing and deserted! Typhoon Lagoon was the most visited water park in the country last year, but the Natural History, National Gallery of Art, American History, and Air and Space Museums in D.C., the Met and Natural History Museums in New York, and probably others did better.

It seems like the museum/edutainment mentality has lost. Now Future World will consist of random IP attractions that only have entertainment value.

See Tomorrowland - Space = Future. Lazy
 

Wikkler

Well-Known Member
It's increasing looking like the "Futureworld" we know and knew will cease to exist.
It will just be "Disney World". Oh wait... that's a stupid name.
It seems like the museum/edutainment mentality has lost. Now Future World will consist of random IP attractions that only have entertainment value.

See Tomorrowland - Space = Future. Lazy
I forgot to put an "anti-" before it. Post edited... and what a sad thought that by 2050 we'll have 3 or even 4 Magic Kingdoms unless a future CEO or head of P&R has some serious stones.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Honestly, while this probably is better than what would have been losing ToT, I'm still really heartbroken that (at least based on the knowledge I have) that we are losing this park.

Hey, Disney, if you really want to use GotG, I don't think anyone would complain if you replace Stitch's Great Escape instead :p
Well, since UoE is giving us an E Ticket for Ipcot I think that works better.

Isn't selling out fun? At this point I'll take that B&tB ride in France. Might as well go all out with this Disney if you're truly serious. Epcot is sadly dead. It put up a heck of a fight up until about 2007. Then Nemo, the Three Caballeros, Frozen, and now GotG happened.

*sigh* I need to go watch some of @marni1971's videos again to see what once was...
 
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DinoInstitute

Well-Known Member
Well, since UoE is giving us an E Ticket for Ipcot I think that works better.

Isn't selling out fun? At this point I'll take that B&tB ride in France. Might as well go all out with this Disney if you're truly serious. Epcot is sadly dead. It put up a heck of a fight up until about 2007. Then Nemo, the Three Caballeros, Frozen, and now GotG happened.

*sigh* I need to go watch some of @marni1971's videos again to see what once was...
Yep, EPCOT Center dying wasn't bad enough, now Epcot died, and has left us with Ipcot :p;):(
 

CanadianGordon

Well-Known Member
To be honest I'm sorry I didn't revisit Ellen's energy adventure when I went last year. I swore I knew there were Dinos at Epcot, but I couldn't remember the name of the ride and I didn't think to google it. Though looking up the details, who thought a 45 minute ride was a good idea?
I suppose for a kid it's a nice treat and for the adults it was air conditioned...

I'm cautiously optimistic with all these rumours, and hopeful that whatever happens, we get some money put in the park where it needs it the most. Closing rides and interesting exhibits to replace them with booths for expos just sucks life out of the park.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Yep, EPCOT Center dying wasn't bad enough, now Epcot died, and has left us with Ipcot :p;):(

I will shed no tears for Epcot's death. I'm pretty sure the 'theme' of Epcot was that of a former park's graveyard.

Landscaping-186.jpg


EPCOT >> Epcot ?< Ipcot (or IOAcot I would also accept).
 

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