News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[Fox&Hound]

I love the idea of a villains land but have wondered if the studios was a better place for it. DHS already has a lot of e-tickets that skew older and they have already done villains events there before. Just imagine if they took the massive land where Indy sits, maybe even expanded into the parking lot, and gave us the expansion that park deserves.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I love the idea of a villains land but have wondered if the studios was a better place for it. DHS already has a lot of e-tickets that skew older and they have already done villains events there before. Just imagine if they took the massive land where Indy sits, maybe even expanded into the parking lot, and gave us the expansion that park deserves.

For all I've said about wanting Villains Land at MK, I do really think that Disney needs to focus on the 3 Non-MK parks first. It seems clear that isn't quite what they have up their sleeves, but Magic Kingdom is largely a victim of its own success. If any of the other 3 parks (ideally ALL of them) were properly engineered to pull their own weight then MK wouldn't have to scrape for every ounce of capacity it can manage.

Of course it's reasonable to want MK to get some nice new toys from time to time as well, but I think the push to expand out behind the Rivers of America comes largely from Disney wanting to bet on its fastest horse in the face of Epic Universe. They see MK as the park that pulls the guests in and EPCOT, DHS, and DAK as the places guests go when they're not at MK. A big new expansion to their headlining park serves the double purpose of pulling the largest potential group of people to the resort as well as theoretically helping solve the capacity issues they already have at that park. But I think if you keep doing that Magic Kingdom just continues to stand head and shoulders above the other parks in terms of offerings, and the prophecy fulfills itself.

This to say, I think thematically I'd prefer a Villains Land at MK, but I wouldn't say no to one at the Studios. I definitely think DHS needs much more than it's gotten, and real, genuine, jaw-dropping expansion should be a high priority for that park.

 

[Brer Panther]

I fear that if we got, for example, a Jafar-themed ride as part of this villains land, if they ever actually did an Aladdin dark ride after that (I doubt they ever will, but still), they'd leave Jafar out of it because of redundancy or something.

 

[JD80]

For all I've said about wanting Villains Land at MK, I do really think that Disney needs to focus on the 3 Non-MK parks first. It seems clear that isn't quite what they have up their sleeves, but Magic Kingdom is largely a victim of its own success. If any of the other 3 parks (ideally ALL of them) were properly engineered to pull their own weight then MK wouldn't have to scrape for every ounce of capacity it can manage.

Of course it's reasonable to want MK to get some nice new toys from time to time as well, but I think the push to expand out behind the Rivers of America comes largely from Disney wanting to bet on its fastest horse in the face of Epic Universe. They see MK as the park that pulls the guests in and EPCOT, DHS, and DAK as the places guests go when they're not at MK. A big new expansion to their headlining park serves the double purpose of pulling the largest potential group of people to the resort as well as theoretically helping solve the capacity issues they already have at that park. But I think if you keep doing that Magic Kingdom just continues to stand head and shoulders above the other parks in terms of offerings, and the prophecy fulfills itself.

This to say, I think thematically I'd prefer a Villains Land at MK, but I wouldn't say no to one at the Studios. I definitely think DHS needs much more than it's gotten, and real, genuine, jaw-dropping expansion should be a high priority for that park.

Trying not to type out a 2000 word armchair imagineer post, so I'll use bullet points in an attempt not to write a wall of text.

• People are drawn to MK because it's the castle park with an extremely popular fireworks show.
  • You get both people there to tour the park and people hopping there just for fireworks.
• None of the parks are advertised like Magic Kingdom. That castle is on everything. In order to draw a significant amount of people away from that, you'll need 2-3 more Galaxy Edges (not strictly Star Wars but lands with that level of immersion). MK doesn't have immersive lands with a single theme. DHS needs to be that park.
• EPCOT has it's own draw because of Festivals and Music, but I don't think it'll draw any more people away from MK. It'll be curious to see once communicore is complete and the entertainment factor is done, if it sees an increase in attendance. Not sure how to expand EPCOT further at this point.
• Animal Kingdom just needs more and a night time draw. This has been discuss ad nauseum.

My point is that MK just needs more because it's nearly impossible to draw people away because it's THE castle park. You will either need to build another castle park or add a castle somewhere else to give a place where you get the same feels.

The only way I can see that happening is if DHS goes all out and adds 2-3 heavily themed lands and it feels like you're moving from universe to universe. The park is a mess from a design point of view so it'll never happen.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I want them to take their time with this decision. The worst thing they could do is just slap the first idea they have in there. Whatever they come up with, they need to plan it out, then let it simmer on the back burner for a while to see if the brain trust still likes it a few months later. This is a very big, very expensive project they're undertaking - and with everything their crosstown rival has going, it needs to be a hit.

No one would accuse them of rushing this….

 

[Kev1982]

I fear that if we got, for example, a Jafar-themed ride as part of this villains land, if they ever actually did an Aladdin dark ride after that (I doubt they ever will, but still), they'd leave Jafar out of it because of redundancy or something.

Like TBA? Where is the Dr. Facilier ride

 

[Tha Realest]

I love the idea of a villains land but have wondered if the studios was a better place for it. DHS already has a lot of e-tickets that skew older and they have already done villains events there before. Just imagine if they took the massive land where Indy sits, maybe even expanded into the parking lot, and gave us the expansion that park deserves.

Or, hear me out, they keep a perfectly great attraction and build a new one?

 

[Bocabear]

I love the whole idea of a "Dark Side of the Magic Kingdom"... If kids are afraid, they don't have to even walk through that section...Being on the backside of the park it is sequestered. The idea of a nightly fireworks battle between Villains and Heroes is delicious...Fantasmic as a fireworks show... Viewing area within the Villains land could have a completely different narration... What fun that would be...

 

[Dutch Inn '76]

No one would accuse them of rushing this….

Yeah, and that's why I think people's desire to have them move faster is ill-founded. There's plenty of "new" at WDW. There's no need to rush more in *right now.* I want them to take their time and do it right... as I haven't heard a good idea for the expansion yet.

 

[Dutch Inn '76]

For all I've said about wanting Villains Land at MK, I do really think that Disney needs to focus on the 3 Non-MK parks first. It seems clear that isn't quite what they have up their sleeves, but Magic Kingdom is largely a victim of its own success. If any of the other 3 parks (ideally ALL of them) were properly engineered to pull their own weight then MK wouldn't have to scrape for every ounce of capacity it can manage.

Of course it's reasonable to want MK to get some nice new toys from time to time as well, but I think the push to expand out behind the Rivers of America comes largely from Disney wanting to bet on its fastest horse in the face of Epic Universe. They see MK as the park that pulls the guests in and EPCOT, DHS, and DAK as the places guests go when they're not at MK. A big new expansion to their headlining park serves the double purpose of pulling the largest potential group of people to the resort as well as theoretically helping solve the capacity issues they already have at that park. But I think if you keep doing that Magic Kingdom just continues to stand head and shoulders above the other parks in terms of offerings, and the prophecy fulfills itself.

This to say, I think thematically I'd prefer a Villains Land at MK, but I wouldn't say no to one at the Studios. I definitely think DHS needs much more than it's gotten, and real, genuine, jaw-dropping expansion should be a high priority for that park.

AGREE. Other than maintenance, they should forget about the MK for ten years or so. EPCOT & AK needs their attention desperately, then the Studios. Heck, I'd rather they do some work on the water parks before they spend another dime on the MK.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

AGREE. Other than maintenance, they should forget about the MK for ten years or so. EPCOT & AK needs their attention desperately, then the Studios. Heck, I'd rather they do some work on the water parks before they spend another dime on the MK.

This is unfortunately is not the correct mindset. Magic Kingdom will ALWAYS be the most visited park. Nothing they ever add to another park will pull attendance from MK. They need to reopen existing capacity (like SGE) and expand the park, it needs the capacity. It’s that simple. We’re also talking about a multibillion dollar conglomerate, expanding in MK doesn’t mean they can’t expand in Epcot, or DAK.

 

[Dutch Inn '76]

...and someone said above that villains work because they counter the "good guy." So, Villains Land would need the "bad guy" to be sort of the protagonist; to look at the story from the other side. ...and I've had plenty enough of that already in everyday life.

There's still a place for Good vs. Bad mythology and storytelling; Heros and Heroines that we can be proud of - and I think we should leave it at that. That, in a nutshell is why I hope they don't build a "Villains Land."

Now go ahead and roll your eyes at me.

 

[MisterPenguin]

This is unfortunately is not the correct mindset. Magic Kingdom will ALWAYS be the most visited park. Nothing they ever add to another park will pull attendance from MK. They need to reopen existing capacity (like SGE) and expand the park, it needs the capacity. It’s that simple. We’re also talking about a multibillion dollar conglomerate, expanding in MK doesn’t mean they can’t expand in Epcot, or DAK.

Except that the other parks do attract guests. Which means people in the "other three" chose to be in those three and not MK for that day. People even chose to go to Universal parks instead of MK for the day in which they go to those other parks.

So, it is possible for the other three to peel people away from MK. But when MK has three times the number of rides than any one of the other three, its understandable why MK gets the most clicks.

In the next decade, WDW is supposed to get $17B in capex. To put 3 more rides in the other three plus all the other non-ride infrastructure... at their bloated budgets, they just might make it.

Making MK even more attractive to guests doesn't make sense since it's attractive enough as is. Just think what it's like when near capacity. And we want that to be like that more often?! Its infrastructure to accommodate more guests is already bursting at the seams with the hub at capacity for the fireworks, the log jam of the monorail and ferries, the lack of food service, the lack of restrooms.

Tomorrowland didn't' need TRON. It needed Speedway and Space Mountain to be updated, and an actual attraction where SGE was.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Except that the other parks do attract guests. Which means people in the "other three" chose to be in those three and not MK for that day. People even chose to go to Universal parks instead of MK for the day in which they go to those other parks.

This is all correct, but MK is always the most visited. It has been for decades.

So, it is possible for the other three to peel people away from MK. But when MK has three times the number of rides than any one of the other three, it’s understandable why MK gets the most clicks.

It’s also about the castle, and the “classic” factor. Magic Kingdom is “Disney” to a lot of people.

In the next decade, WDW is supposed to get $17B in capex. To put 3 more rides in the other three plus all the other non-ride infrastructure... at their bloated budgets, they just might make it.

But as you mentioned with Tron, the other parks have the same issues. Epcot needs to fix Figment and do something with the WoL pavilion. DHS needs to do something with Animation Courtyard. DAK is probably the only park that needs “pure” expansion.

Making MK even more attractive to guests doesn't make sense since it's attractive enough as is. Just think what it's like when near capacity. And we want that to be like that more often?! Its infrastructure to accommodate more guests is already bursting at the seams with the hub at capacity for the fireworks, the log jam of the monorail and ferries, the lack of food service, the lack of restrooms.

It’s not really about making it more attractive, it’s about adding capacity. While I agree there is a lack of food service it is partly because Disney would rather keep places closed. Lack of restrooms? I don’t think I’ve ever encountered that. The hub and post firework jam is an issue, I concur. Unfortunately Disney laid their bed with that one, there is no other way to get out of the park. Adding more trains, and more reliable service could ease some congestion there. If they could build a new entrance to MK in the back of the park, that would be amazing, but not really practical, and ruins the “reveal” that Walt wanted in castle parks.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Lack of restrooms? I don’t think I’ve ever encountered that.

I've read of accounts that back when they had Phased Closings, the line for a restroom would be half an hour. Tho, that could be an exaggeration.

It's all about tipping points. Once a ride, attraction, or a piece of infrastructure reaches the tipping point of its capacity, there will be an ever growing queue for it.

If a new land in MK brings in thousands more per day, it will get to the type of capacity that the Phased Closings had. OR... WDW will rely on selling out day-tickets and park reservations for APers to keep the attendance capped. Then there will be the online competition to pick up tickets/reservations before they sell out.

 

[fgmnt]

Having just gotten back from Disneyland, i’m more confident than ever that the way you “fix” MK is making it more like Disneyland. Let’s say we live in a fantasy world where the company wants to proceed with a clearly demarcated 10 year expansion across the Orlando resort. Every 2 years, you add a new minor attraction in MK, a new major attraction in another park, and a refurbishment of a major legacy attraction. MK needs the kinds of attractions the company won’t ever make again: simple dark rides that put people in more, shorter lines. Every other park needs something that can depressurize their headline attraction, and every park has at least one legacy attraction that needs 6 months or even a year + off for updates.

We might get like 40% of that.

 

[FutureCEO]

This is all correct, but MK is always the most visited. It has been for decades.

Then the MK shouldn't need anything new for rides in the near future

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I've read of accounts that back when they had Phased Closings, the line for a restroom would be half an hour. Tho, that could be an exaggeration.

It’s certainly possible, although I feel the parks have an abundance of restrooms and have never run into this issue.

It's all about tipping points. Once a ride, attraction, or a piece of infrastructure reaches the tipping point of its capacity, there will be an ever growing queue for it.

If a new land in MK brings in thousands more per day, it will get to the type of capacity that the Phased Closings had. OR... WDW will rely on selling out day-tickets and park reservations for APers to keep the attendance capped. Then there will be the online competition to pick up tickets/reservations before they sell out.

I think the park reservation system plays/ed a part here. It does prevent Disney from having to build additional capacity… although we still see 4 hour waits on “sold out” days that are not nearly as crowded as phased closings pre-COVID. The bottom line is that all 4 parks need additional attractions, dining capacity and reopening shuttered spaces.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Then the MK shouldn't need anything new for rides in the near future

I disagree with this sentiment, and clearly Disney does as well.

 

[Surferboy567]

In terms of attractions, a few pages back I read an idea about an attraction where all the Villians “recruit” us to be their henchmen and try and compete for us.

This line of thinking is not good in my opinion. Seems too childish for the kinda land I have in my head. I’m thinking for a villains land we could have the following type of attractions:

1. Maleficent Dragon Encounter (we can workshop the name) - The queue snakes though Maleficent’s castle very detailed and moody. The idea of the ride is that you are assisting Prince Philip trying to rescue Aurora from her sleeping curse. You board “enchanted motorized carriages” (some kind of fast thrill ride I haven’t worked out of I want it to be a coaster or a journey to the center of the earth kinda thing). The ride takes you though the landscape with square trees and finally when reaching Aurora's castle you watch Philip fight a full realized gigantic AA of Maleficent in her dragon form.

2. A night on bald mountain - A coaster though the night on bald mountain scene from fantasia. Admittedly this may freak kids out but I think has potential. Literally expedition Everest with chernabog.

3. Elephant Graveyard - Maybe this doesn’t need to be a ride, maybe a walkable area but the environment is so visually appealing I feel it’s begging to be put into here in some way.

4. Dr Facilier’s Shop - Take the sanctum show in DCA and make it more edgy and entertaining.

5. Hades’s River Stynx - A boat ride through the river stynx.

6. Cave of Wonders - Magic Carpet ride though the cave of wonders (Aladdin finally gets a ride of
some sort)

The land itself would be a moody village not unlike the one from fantasia. Lots of thorns and spikes.

I understand these ideas may seem scatterbrained. The point is to show how much limitless potential they have.