News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[wdrive]

I assume Capex and op ex are different buckets which is what it comes down too.

True but again if they weren’t worth the money to run the theatres they already have would be sitting empty.

 

[doctornick]

Those big, high capacity attractions are the sort of thing that induces more demand.

A big, high capacity theater will not induce the same sort of demand.

Honestly, more rides like Mermaid would also help MK. High capacity, something to do, but not a draw on their own.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I should have been clear in that a reason for cancellation would come from a reliable source /on here/; the company could build a 5th gate out of announced and silently cancelled projects.

I’ve been skimming through the thread where it was announced and then cancelled. So it seems the parking lot thing may have been true. Doesn’t really matter anyway….

It's not just upper management, that parking lot is used by maintenances vehicles, service trucks, VIP tours, mid-level managers who are over there for a meeting, etc. There's a massive lack of back of house space at Magic Kingdom, compared to the other parks, so that's one of the times support needs trumped guest needs.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Honestly, more rides like Mermaid would also help MK. High capacity, something to do, but not a draw on their own.

Yeah, attractions people would rather not ride will certainly lessen the problem of the park being too popular!!

 

[wdrive]

Yeah, attractions people would rather not ride will certainly lessen the problem of the park being too popular!!

Plenty people ride the Little Mermaid, if you built 10 more rides of similar quality in MK you’d help spread crowds out and not significantly increase attendance outside the initial month. Just building mega E tickets will make the crowding problem worse.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Plenty people ride the Little Mermaid, if you built 10 more rides of similar quality in MK you’d help spread crowds out and not significantly increase attendance outside the initial month. Just building mega E tickets will make the crowding problem worse.

Mermaid was suppose to be an E, like Mansion.

But I do agree no more Es for MK for a while.

 

[wdrive]

Mermaid was suppose to be an E, like Mansion.

But I do agree no more Es for MK for a while.

I mean maybe in some Disney Parks blog post they might have described it as an E ticket. I don’t think anyone seriously ever considered it an E at any point.

 

[UNCgolf]

I mean maybe in some Disney Parks blog post they might have described it as an E ticket. I don’t think anyone seriously ever considered it an E at any point.

It cost $100+ million. I think it was intended to be an E; they just completely botched it.

At worst it was supposed to be a D+.

 

[SpectreJordan]

It cost $100+ million. I think it was intended to be an E; they just completely botched it.

At worst it was supposed to be a D+.

Did they flush half of it down the drain on accident?

 

[UNCgolf]

Did they flush half of it down the drain on accident?

It's especially crazy because I'm pretty sure that number came from the original California Adventure version, which doesn't even have the elaborate facade and queue of the WDW one.

 

[fgmnt]

Did they flush half of it down the drain on accident?

It’s really remarkable how much of a wet fart NFL was. Probably the most disappointing capital project under Iger (high bar!)

 

[UNCgolf]

It’s really remarkable how much of a wet fart NFL was. Probably the most disappointing capital project under Iger (high bar!)

Even Be Our Guest, which opened to some acclaim, has fallen off. And I don't think the interior is especially impressive -- the West Wing is better, but the centerpiece ballroom doesn't really work because it feels like you're eating in a cafeteria.

I personally think NFL is still much better than Toy Story Land both from a content standpoint and a use of space/design standpoint, but it's a major disappointment nonetheless.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Good point on the conceit. It can be done well with various IPs just as well as immersive worlds of one.

For Villains, an avenue off in Fantasyland as an expansion there would have made more sense, and I think a better expansion than what we got. I think that a large part of it is, a villain is only as interesting as its hero, and a hero is only as interesting as its villain.

Dark rides without the villain of the story are often not really interesting. Typically there needs to be an antagonist if you are mimicking the environments of the film. This is often even said to be one of the specific weakpoints of The Little Mermaid.

Islands of Adventure Lands that are not Harry Potter are great examples of IPs that had some connections in art direction that worked well for an entire land, plus Jurassic Park and the original custom Lost Continent with sublands for the cultural differences of its legends. I think Islands of Adventure truly did this pretty well. Potter obviously was the hyper specific world location.
A Disney comparison of those lands done well would be Frontierland, Tomorrowland and Toon Town of the 90s. Roger Rabbit was not enough on its own, but there is easily a world from Roger Rabbit where the others could fit in the art direction. Splash integrated into Frontierland very well and Tomorrowland as Buck Rogers future community of good and bad inventions made sense.

Speaking of Tomorrowland, a good example of how well rounded light and dark are within the same land but making sense is Timekeeper and Alien Encounter. Right Across from each other leading to Space Mountain and Astro Orbiter being a beacon of space fantasy thrill. Complimented by the kinetic energy of The Peoplemover as the transit system of this world and to the right, Timekeeper at the Science Center, showcasing technology in a lighthearted inspirational light. Across to the left Alien Encounter, the cautionary tale and dark side of technology when in excess.
It was my favorite land in MK for a long time because of that. Frontierland and Tomorrowland were my favs.

Disney has already told Villains stories and done so recently. I'm not expecting an origin story akin to Maleficient to be told on a ride, but perhaps a Thanos' like Heroes journey story through the eyes of a Villain?

The other option is to flip the traditional ride tropes upside down. Instead of something going horrible wrong, what if something went horribly right?

I love the idea of a villains land but have wondered if the studios was a better place for it. DHS already has a lot of e-tickets that skew older and they have already done villains events there before. Just imagine if they took the massive land where Indy sits, maybe even expanded into the parking lot, and gave us the expansion that park deserves.

I've also thought it could go in the Studios, but I don't dislike it as a Fantasyland extension.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Either way, would not have been worth the time and money to build.

I completely disagree. A theater that can pull 1000-3000 guests off the streets per hour is huge. It wouldn't be a driver of attendance but it would be a big capacity boost. As @wdrive stated, Magic Kingdom needs non-headliner attractions that can accommodate a lot of guests. Something on par with Fantasy Springs addition coming to DisneySea would solve quite a few of Magic Kingdom's problems. That being said, it's not unrealistic to say that Beyond Big Thunder could essentially solve this problem as well.

Roger’s is an awful example (that no one really wanted) how about we use something like Aladdin. Which lasted from 2003 to 2016, I had the pleasure of seeing it once and it was a great show. Would love to see a Broadway type show in MK.

Frozen was also pretty good and admittedly it wasn’t as good as Aladdin but was still a decent show. Lasting from 2016 all the way up until 2020. Another show I had the pleasure of seeing.

I agree though, the resort needs rides over anything right now. Shows can work though if done right.

FWIW, I wanted Roger's the Musical and was pleased that they did it. I think they played it too safe, but I welcomed it. That being said, if they announced Aladdin was returning tomorrow I'd be first in line.

Honestly, more rides like Mermaid would also help MK. High capacity, something to do, but not a draw on their own.

Yeah, attractions people would rather not ride will certainly lessen the problem of the park being too popular!!

Honestly @MisterPenguin, @doctornick is correct here. A couple more 2000 guest per hour attractions spread out in MK would help tremendously.

If you want to contribute to perceived value, those people eaters really help even if the rides themselves aren't highly rated.

I mean maybe in some Disney Parks blog post they might have described it as an E ticket. I don’t think anyone seriously ever considered it an E at any point.

John Lasseter and I believe Jay Rasulo publicly called it an E-Ticket, but privately they knew it was a C/D.

 

[SpectreJordan]

It’s really remarkable how much of a wet fart NFL was. Probably the most disappointing capital project under Iger (high bar!)

I'm a bit easier to please as I love Galaxy's Edge/Pandora & like TSL but yeah I'm not too hot on NFL. Seven Dwarves looks nice, I guess lol

 

[fgmnt]

If you want to contribute to perceived value, those people eaters really help even if the rides themselves aren't highly rated.

Different guests have different idea of what contributes to a satisfactory guest experience. There are 3 types of guests that visit MK. One type of people will be unhappy if they don’t get to ride *specific ride* on their visit no matter what. Some guests want to feel like their time is not wasted in lines on bad experiences. Some guests want to soak up as many different experiences as possible. Adding a number of classic busbar dark rides to MK, or a theater show, likely does not create an attraction that makes up group 1, alleviates pressure across the park on group 2, and helps the satisfaction rates of group 3. Of all of the sins committed in NFL, they made a whole lot of things that would upset group 2 and removed an attraction that improves the experience of group 3, while spending like they were trying to build something for group 1.

How many people define their visit on their experience on 7 dwarves like they do for Thunder, Space, PotC, HM? As of this post, Enchanted Tales with Belle is posted at 35 minutes. Do those guests find that experience satisfying enough to sit through?

You can't spend money like this company has and make these mistakes in the castle park again.

 

[WaltWiz1901]

I mean maybe in some Disney Parks blog post they might have described it as an E ticket. I don’t think anyone seriously ever considered it an E at any point.

John Lasseter and I believe Jay Rasulo publicly called it an E-Ticket, but privately they knew it was a C/D.

They might've been confident that Mermaid would still turn out like this trackless incarnation conceptualized circa 2006-2008, well before the final, value-engineered Omnimover version was set in stone. Had it gone through, it would've given WDW an LPS ride nearly a decade before the fact, and more likely would've been more in sync with the grand facade the ride received there.

 

[wdrive]

It cost $100+ million. I think it was intended to be an E; they just completely botched it.

At worst it was supposed to be a D+.

Anything Disney builds in the last 15 years has been 100 + million. A new stand selling churros and water probably costs them that. The Dwarfs’ mine train was supposed to be the E of New Fantasyland (even that’s debateable) with Mermaid supporting

 

[RSoxNo1]

Different guests have different idea of what contributes to a satisfactory guest experience. There are 3 types of guests that visit MK. One type of people will be unhappy if they don’t get to ride *specific ride* on their visit no matter what. Some guests want to feel like their time is not wasted in lines on bad experiences. Some guests want to soak up as many different experiences as possible. Adding a number of classic busbar dark rides to MK, or a theater show, likely does not create an attraction that makes up group 1, alleviates pressure across the park on group 2, and helps the satisfaction rates of group 3. Of all of the sins committed in NFL, they made a whole lot of things that would upset group 2 and removed an attraction that improves the experience of group 3, while spending like they were trying to build something for group 1.

How many people define their visit on their experience on 7 dwarves like they do for Thunder, Space, PotC, HM? As of this post, Enchanted Tales with Belle is posted at 35 minutes. Do those guests find that experience satisfying enough to sit through?

You can't spend money like this company has and make these mistakes in the castle park again.

I was at WDW for 7 park days on my last trip and didn't ride Little Mermaid and I have two little girls. That being said, it's presence in the park benefited our trip because it was something for other guests to do. It reduced crowds elsewhere.

 

[J4546]

Though ive never been, i really wish theyd build a massive indoor little mermaid area like in tokyo, it looks amazing in videos and would give a massive sheltered area with a couple small rides and exp;oration areas for kids. I feel like it would be a hoerun somewhere in FL but would def not get built now