Avengers Campus - Reactions / Reviews

[mickEblu]

LOL exactly! Again, I remember VERY well, even at such a young age how people hated the idea of Star Tours being in a Disney theme park. But now?

Of course you can apply the entire GE to that argument, but in ten years, people will fight tooth or nail if you ever suggest getting ride of it.

Nostalgia certainly plays a role and people may eventually come around on things but I think with a lot of topics we discuss there is also a lot of nuance. People may have felt they you were saying about Star Tours in 1987. It sounds plausible and I won’t deny it as I was 5 years old. With that said just being fair and objective it’s easy to see how Star Tours and GOTG: MB are different. Star Tours was a Cutting edge innovative ride with humor that displayed the Star Wars IP in a way that felt harmonious with DL and Tomorrowland.

GOTG: MB is a theme that was shoved and KABLAM’d into a structure that was purpose built to be a haunted hotel with an elevator ride system. Anyone that is a fan of themed design will agree that GOTG is a downgrade in almost every category... except being synergistic with the movies.

 

[Disney Analyst]

We can all agree that ToT obviously was a better themed attraction / story... and I think also agree that GotG is a huge hit and people love it...

It is what it is.

 

[mickEblu]

I don't actually disagree with this at all. You are 100% correct. But again, we are hardcore fans. They are not. They love the parks, but its still JUST a park to them. That's fine, but no I wouldn't want them running the park either lol. That would be an utter disaster believe me. My son would build a Kendrick Lamar ride if he could...it would not go well. I would want someone like you to run it. But how I feel is not how the majority looks at it.

And according to most people online Disney has been 'declining by degrees' for decades now. We're all still here because we love it. I personally have a more upbeat view in general or I wouldn't be spending the money I spend to go to them. But same I time I don't really disagree with things like SM. I just don't think it's going to be a big debate about it one way or the other for most fans if its at the same level of TSM because that seems to be really popular by both hard and casual fans. Could I be wrong, it won't be the first time. But I think its the Avengers ride (if they make it) that will tell us exactly where the 'pinnacle' of imagineering because once you call something an 'E-ticket' then expectations are just higher from everyone.

Well that’s my point. They have 40 years + of amazing attractions they have built and all the nostalgia that comes with it, Walt Disney and the classic movies. Compared to let’s say a decade and half where we can say they have been either creating attractions and lands that just miss the mark, are devoid of Disneyland charm or are just flat out terrible. The question is, will people feel the same way in a couple decades if they keep this up?

 

[el_super]

Nostalgia certainly plays a role and people may eventually come around on things but I think with a lot of topics we discuss there is also a lot of nuance. People may have felt they you were saying about Star Tours in 1987. It sounds plausible and I won’t deny it as I was 5 years old. With that said just being fair and objective it’s easy to see how Star Tours and GOTG: MB are different. Star Tours was a Cutting edge innovative ride with humor that displayed the Star Wars IP in a way that felt harmonious with DL and Tomorrowland.

I don't remember the complaints about Star Tours... but I absolutely remember the people who complained about Tower of Terror being added to DCA. They said it was a cheap clone. It was ugly and was a visual intrusion that violated the sight lines of the park. It wasn't a family ride and it was the antithesis of the family oriented Disneyland that DCA needed to emulate. Then there was that whole 9/11 conspiracy theory.... yikes.

10 years later it was the best thing at DCA and a beloved classic. Time heals all wounds.

GOTG: MB is a theme that was shoved and KABLAM’d into a structure that was purpose built to be a haunted hotel with an elevator ride system. Anyone that is a fan of themed design will agree that GOTG is a downgrade in almost every category... except being synergistic with the movies.

Guess I am not a fan of themed design then. I like the new ride. It's not terrible. I do miss Tower of Terror, but they are still around in the world if I really want to visit them. Although I will say that Walt Disney World's Tower of Terror is in desperate need of a reimagining.

From and artistic standpoint, Mission Breakout does everything it is trying to accomplish just the same way Tower of Terror did.

 

[mickEblu]

I don't remember the complaints about Star Tours... but I absolutely remember the people who complained about Tower of Terror being added to DCA. They said it was a cheap clone. It was ugly and was a visual intrusion that violated the sight lines of the park. It wasn't a family ride and it was the antithesis of the family oriented Disneyland that DCA needed to emulate. Then there was that whole 9/11 conspiracy theory.... yikes.

10 years later it was the best thing at DCA and a beloved classic. Time heals all wounds.




Guess I am not a fan of themed design then. I like the new ride. It's not terrible. I do miss Tower of Terror, but they are still around in the world if I really want to visit them. Although I will say that Walt Disney World's Tower of Terror is in desperate need of a reimagining.

From and artistic standpoint, Mission Breakout does everything it is trying to accomplish just the same way Tower of Terror did.

I’m sure some people said that and time will do that. Still doesn’t change the objective truths I mentioned.

And what is it that it accomplished ? Short term goals? Synergy and merch sales? TOT was put in to make the park better. Unlike GOTG:MB

 

[el_super]

I’m sure some people said that and time will do that. Still doesn’t change the objective truths I mentioned.

And what is it that it accomplished ? Short term goals? Synergy and merch sales? TOT was put in to make the park better. Unlike GOTG:MB

Words like "innovative" and "humor" and "harmonious" are all subjective. Not objective.

GOTG:MB was put in to make the park better. People like Guardians of the Galaxy and want to see their favorite characters when they go to the parks. There would be no merchandise sales or synergy possible if the audience don't have a connection to the characters or story in some meaningful way.

It literally just comes down to the subjective opinion of whether you liked one version over the other. Objectively, if people are still lining up for it, it's a success.

 

[mickEblu]

Words like "innovative" and "humor" and "harmonious" are all subjective. Not objective.

GOTG:MB was put in to make the park better. People like Guardians of the Galaxy and want to see their favorite characters when they go to the parks. There would be no merchandise sales or synergy possible if the audience don't have a connection to the characters or story in some meaningful way.

It literally just comes down to the subjective opinion of whether you liked one version over the other. Objectively, if people are still lining up for it, it's a success.

Oh God another subjective/ objective debate. Nothing can objectively better anymore. Chip n Dales treehouse is a better attraction than POTC. But then again, that’s subjective. I’m out. Goodnight.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Not for me. I’m still mourning

Can you imagine what it'll be like going to Disneyland and seeing Frog Mountain across the Rivers of America from Frontierland?

 

[October82]

I’d say there’s more to it than that, at least personally speaking and I’m also saying this based on my observations here. Folks like us aren’t experiencing the parks only through a design lens. Personally, I’m experiencing it through a historical lens, as well as themed design, Walt Disney, and maybe even a few other ones. I’d say others here are doing the same thing.

A general fan is just interested in being entertained. Nothing else matters.

In my experience, the reason people are entertained has to do with all of those things. The reason nothing else matters is because what entertains people are well designed, well thought out, historically relevant and emotionally evocative experiences. As those become rarer in the parks, the parks will suffer.

There's a tendency in the online fan community to "put down" the reasons why we are passionate about the parks as if those reasons don't exist or aren't good enough for the "average guest". I've never completely understood why this is, but it's a very real part of the Disney community that I don't see in other fan communities. That doesn't mean that every guest will explicitly identify good design, but every guest does experience good (or bad) design.

 

[October82]

Words like "innovative" and "humor" and "harmonious" are all subjective. Not objective.

GOTG:MB was put in to make the park better. People like Guardians of the Galaxy and want to see their favorite characters when they go to the parks. There would be no merchandise sales or synergy possible if the audience don't have a connection to the characters or story in some meaningful way.

It literally just comes down to the subjective opinion of whether you liked one version over the other. Objectively, if people are still lining up for it, it's a success.

Oh God another subjective/ objective debate. Nothing can objectively better anymore. Chip n Dales treehouse is a better attraction than POTC. But then again, that’s subjective. I’m out. Goodnight.

The nuance here is that subjective doesn't mean arbitrary. Good design works on a subjective level because it responds to emotions and understandings that we share, in part, because of our common cultural roots. The reason MB fails in comparison to ToT for many people is that it works as a vehicle for marketing that keys in on a more narrow set of cultural and design principles than what it replaced. That's not an arbitrary claim even if it might be a subjective one.

 

[October82]

I don't remember the complaints about Star Tours... but I absolutely remember the people who complained about Tower of Terror being added to DCA. They said it was a cheap clone. It was ugly and was a visual intrusion that violated the sight lines of the park. It wasn't a family ride and it was the antithesis of the family oriented Disneyland that DCA needed to emulate. Then there was that whole 9/11 conspiracy theory.... yikes.

10 years later it was the best thing at DCA and a beloved classic. Time heals all wounds.

Anaheim's Tower of Terror was a cheap clone. It didn't improve DCA's nightlines. And DCA needed family oriented attractions rather than an additional thrill ride. All of that was true when it was added in a rush.

And it was still a classic attraction that is superior in many respects to GotG. Both can be true.

Guess I am not a fan of themed design then. I like the new ride. It's not terrible. I do miss Tower of Terror, but they are still around in the world if I really want to visit them. Although I will say that Walt Disney World's Tower of Terror is in desperate need of a reimagining.

Attractions don't exist by themselves. PotC doesn't work in the same way absent New Orleans Square, and New Orleans Square doesn't work in the same way without PotC. Tower of Terror was the anchor for Hollywoodland - a land that, yes, deserved better - but does not fail in the way the architectural mess and self aware conceit of a "tech campus in a theme park" does. Every failure attributable to Tower of Terror and its surroundings is amplified by MB and Avengers Campus. That there's a version of Tower of Terror in Paris, Tokyo, and Orlando doesn't help MB be a better, more complete, or thoughtful experience. It simply means that for those of us who are fortunate enough to be able to afford world travel, that those are experiences available to us.

From and artistic standpoint, Mission Breakout does everything it is trying to accomplish just the same way Tower of Terror did.

This is a honest question - what is Mission Breakout trying to accomplish?

Joe Rohde's Kaboom is the only attempt to define a goal for MB, and amounts to “When everything is your design, nothing is your design.”

 

[Kyle’s Dad Sent Me]

Love that this debate is being rehashed yet again but GOTG as a ride is far more fun than the cheap version of TOT it replaced. Guests love it and it has become one of the resort’s most popular rides for a reason. Each resort now has a unique version of Tower too which is great. The outside is ugly though and they should have given it another six months of work. They really should remedy that at some point.

 

[October82]

Love that this debate is being rehashed yet again but GOTG as a ride is far more fun than the cheap version of TOT it replaced. Guests love it and it has become one of the resort’s most popular rides for a reason. Each resort now has a unique version of Tower too which is great. The outside is ugly though and they should have given it another six months of work. They really should remedy that at some point.

I imagine that The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh is more popular than Mr. Toad's Wild Ride or Country Bear Jamboree, that Big Thunder Mountain Railroad is more popular than Mine Train through Nature's Wonderland, that Mission: Space is more popular than Horizons and that Princess and the Frog will be more popular than Splash Mountain.

True or not (as is the case), I don't think that will stop people from talking about any of those attractions. We talk about Tower of Terror because it is arguably the last attraction built at the Disneyland Resort that was not tied to the franchise business model where attraction decisions are often based on marketing concerns to the exclusion and detriment of design ones.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Who hasn't?

Pfizer understands your pain and is here to help.

 

[Brer Panther]

I'm honestly getting tired of the Toy Story Midway Mania clones. Not that I don't like Toy Story Midway Mania, but since that ride opened so many different theme parks have opened rides just like it. Get in vehicle, vehicle moves a little, then the vehicle parks you in front of a screen, you shoot at the things on the screen, vehicle moves to another screen, and so on. It's gotten really tiring.

 

[Kyle’s Dad Sent Me]

I imagine that The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh is more popular than Mr. Toad's Wild Ride or Country Bear Jamboree, that Big Thunder Mountain Railroad is more popular than Mine Train through Nature's Wonderland, that Mission: Space is more popular than Horizons and that Princess and the Frog will be more popular than Splash Mountain.

True or not (as is the case), I don't think that will stop people from talking about any of those attractions. We talk about Tower of Terror because it is arguably the last attraction built at the Disneyland Resort that was not tied to the franchise business model where attraction decisions are often based on marketing concerns to the exclusion and detriment of design ones.

This feels pretty revisionist. Tower of Terror was decided to be a cheap band-aid slapped onto a bad park during a period for the resort far worse than the current one. It was a value version of a Florida ride that had already existed and was well-known for a decade, with an IP attached. It would be like if today they slapped a lazy version of Flight of Passage into Tomorrowland today.

Say what you will about the decisions currently being made (and there are plenty of valid criticisms), they at least aren’t afraid to spend money.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I don't care for the Toy Story ride. It's just a video game with terrible controls.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I'm honestly getting tired of the Toy Story Midway Mania clones. Not that I don't like Toy Story Midway Mania, but since that ride opened so many different theme parks have opened rides just like it. Get in vehicle, vehicle moves a little, then the vehicle parks you in front of a screen, you shoot at the things on the screen, vehicle moves to another screen, and so on. It's gotten really tiring.

You're dissing a new ride because *other* theme parks have similar rides? In that case you should be against any new ride because there's bound to be many rides using a similar mechanic/gimmick in so many other theme parks.

How about being OK with Disney closing some of their dark rides because there are already so many of them?

DL has exactly one ride that parks you in front of a screen and you shoot. Buzz and Monsters keeps you moving and each has a unique shooting system and story. Spider-Man will introduce a new shooting system with a unique story.

There's only so many ride systems. If you want more rides, the underlying mechanic is going to be cloned. The criterion for judging success is if WDI can throw an interesting unique twist and fully theme the ride around the mechanic. It seems like Spider-Man fits that bill.

If one doesn't personally like shooter-rides, that's OK to have that opinion. But the cry "it's similar to other rides" is something that can be used against almost all rides in existence and any other new ride unless it leverages a truly new system (like using VR).

 

[Californian Elitist]

Monsters isn’t a shooting attraction.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

It's a shooting thing at one of the foreign parks. At DCA, it's a Superstar Limo ripoff.