AVATAR progress

[spacemt354]

Right. Which is why I think it is very important for this (alleged) major expansion at DHS to not just add some E-tickets but to also add multiple other family friendly attractions. Having 2 or 3 smaller family rides is really going to be key for giving people different options of stuff to do and lengthening stays in the park.

It's true that smaller attractions don't drive attendance, but I agree with the comments that they make a dramatic impact on guest satisfaction, return visits and time spent in the park.

To be honest I can see why people call DHS a half day park. I feel like shows have less re-watchability than rides do. Although shows like LMA and BatB were enjoyable, we've seen them once or twice, then haven't gone back. However, things like TTA, or the Train in the MK we ride every single visit. These rides are by no means E-tickets, but offer options to guests who either are looking for something to do until their FP time, or simply take a break throughout the day. One, maybe two simple indoor attractions can do both DHS and DAK wonders. One Man's Dream, although not a ride-able attraction, is one of my favorite things to do in DHS, and we usually walk through it as we wait for our TSMM FP. It's interesting, it's informative, and most of all, it's in A/C.

Simple yet necessary additions would do wonders for DHS, however as others have stated, these types of additions would be met with dismay from most of us on here claiming that disney is being cheap by not adding E-tickets

 

[NoChesterHester]

It's true that smaller attractions don't drive attendance, but I agree with the comments that they make a dramatic impact on guest satisfaction, return visits and time spent in the park.

Agree, and as I stated we "should" get some with an expansion.

The way smaller attractions increase capacity and spread out crowds can't be understated. That doesn't mean what I said wasn't true.

Here is an example; if Disney held a press conference tomorrow announcing a new Dino kiddie ride for Dinoland, this board would melt down. It would be like the sequel to Chernobyl.

"What a joke." "That's it?" "Another crap addition when the Yeti is broken!"

 

[doctornick]

The way smaller attractions increase capacity and spread out crowds can't be understated. That doesn't mean what I said wasn't true.

Oh, I agree. And I hope you don't think I was disputing what you said. I think you nailed it earlier in this thread as to why TDO doesn't just add some C-tickets.

And you are totally right about the criticism that Disney gets when adding smaller scale attractions. We see it all the time here.

 

[spacemt354]

Here is an example; if Disney held a press conference tomorrow announcing a new Dino kiddie ride for Dinoland, this board would melt down. It would be like the sequel to Chernobyl.

"What a joke." "That's it?" "Another crap addition when the Yeti is broken!"

Haha I feel the same way. I didn't understand the animosity towards the new Dumbos either. I mean, what were people expecting? It's probably the most popular spinner in WDW, and now it's capacity has increased and its themes improved. A quality addition for me. Not an E-ticket obviously by any means, but I'm not sure what there is to complain about with regard to that attraction?

And yea, this place demotes The Seven Dwarfs Mine Train (in my view looks to be a quality D-ticket with E-ticket themes) to a "kiddie" ride. Seemingly is not at all enthused by the addition. Imagine if an actual "kiddie" ride was announced. Oh my goodness. This site would explode.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Haha I feel the same way. I didn't understand the animosity towards the new Dumbos either. I mean, what were people expecting? It's probably the most popular spinner in WDW, and now it's capacity has increased and its themes improved. A quality addition for me. Not an E-ticket obviously by any means, but I'm not sure what there is to complain about with regard to that attraction?

And yea, this place demotes The Seven Dwarfs Mine Train (in my view looks to be a quality D-ticket with E-ticket themes) to a "kiddie" ride. Seemingly is not at all enthused by the addition. Imagine if an actual "kiddie" ride was announced. Oh my goodness. This site would explode.

I don't think it's a matter of demoting, as you put it, the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train because I'd rather have that than the princess M&Gs. Rather, the fact that they're taking so long, three years, to build this single ride which brings with it unreasonable expectations from fans who haven't gotten an E-Ticket at the MK in 20 years. That's where the animosity is coming from. There is no reason besides TDO being cheap that this ride is taking this long to build.

 

[bubbles1812]

Agree, and as I stated we "should" get some with an expansion.

The way smaller attractions increase capacity and spread out crowds can't be understated. That doesn't mean what I said wasn't true.

Here is an example; if Disney held a press conference tomorrow announcing a new Dino kiddie ride for Dinoland, this board would melt down. It would be like the sequel to Chernobyl.

"What a joke." "That's it?" "Another crap addition when the Yeti is broken!"

I don't think that's necessarily true though truth be told, that area doesn't need another ride. I think people would take issue if that was the ONLY ride going in when the park needs so much more. It needs another E ticket desperately before it needs smaller rides. But like on the Avatar thread... People are generally welcoming the idea of an E ticket and a C ticket. Now if it were only a C ticket, yeah, we might have a problem because it would again demonstrate Disney's short sightedness and cheapness. If they said a C ticket is coming tomorrow and an E ticket is coming in a few years, I wouldn't have a problem. I think most people recognize the parks can't survive alone on the big rides. I know I think that way, even if I think a few E tickets are sorely needed.

Also, yeah, sorry, but the SDMT should not be taking as long as it is. It's not an E ticket. It is a kiddie coaster. I'm sure it will be a very enjoyable kiddie coaster but the amount of construction time is ridiculous.

 

[PeterAlt]

I was just wondering about the Festival of the Lion King theater relocation prep work for Avatar. The old theater doesn't have to be demolished. It could be repurposed for Avatar. That would give the project more bang for the buck as there would be one less structure needing to get built from scratch, and stretch that $400 million a tiny bit more...

 

[PeterAlt]

I don't think that's necessarily true though truth be told, that area doesn't need another ride. I think people would take issue if that was the ONLY ride going in when the park needs so much more. It needs another E ticket desperately before it needs smaller rides. But like on the Avatar thread... People are generally welcoming the idea of an E ticket and a C ticket. Now if it were only a C ticket, yeah, we might have a problem because it would again demonstrate Disney's short sightedness and cheapness. If they said a C ticket is coming tomorrow and an E ticket is coming in a few years, I wouldn't have a problem. I think most people recognize the parks can't survive alone on the big rides. I know I think that way, even if I think a few E tickets are sorely needed.

Also, yeah, sorry, but the SDMT should not be taking as long as it is. It's not an E ticket. It is a kiddie coaster. I'm sure it will be a very enjoyable kiddie coaster but the amount of construction time is ridiculous.

It's more than a kiddie coaster. Just look at the renderings. It's a huge step up from Snow White's Scary Adventures! I would venture to say that this will be a D ticket.

 

[bubbles1812]

It's more than a kiddie coaster. Just look at the renderings. It's a huge step up from Snow White's Scary Adventures! I would venture to say that this will be a D ticket.

The theming may be. It looks pretty.. The same way the Mermaid queue is pretty. But it's still a kiddie coaster.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Speaking of FoTLK, is there any word on enhancements to that show as part of its relocation?

 

[PeterAlt]

Oh, looking at the satellite images, I see a clear path from outside the park bordering Asia to the Corando Springs Resort and then to (cutting through the trees) the DHS backlot at World Drive! Could this be the future site of [cue detective music]....

THE ORIENT-BACKLOT EXPRESS (a light rail connecting DAK to DHS)?

Hmmmmm

 

[danlb_2000]

The theming may be. It looks pretty.. The same way the Mermaid queue is pretty. But it's still a kiddie coaster.

Looking at the layout of the track, combined with the swinging motion of the cars, I think this is going to be a little more then a kiddie coaster. Not going to be as thrilling as BTMRR, but it definitely looks like it's going to be more then Goffini.

 

[bubbles1812]

Looking at the layout of the track, combined with the swinging motion of the cars, I think this is going to be a little more then a kiddie coaster. Not going to be as thrilling as BTMRR, but it definitely looks like it's going to be more then Goffini.

I would agree. I've always said it is somewhere between Barnstormer (sorry it's still Barnstormer to me ) and Big Thunder. But that still places it as a kiddie coaster in my mind. I love Big Thunder, but it's not that thrilling in the grand scheme of things... Though to be fair, it is for Disney.

 

[danlb_2000]

I would agree. I've always said it is somewhere between Barnstormer (sorry it's still Barnstormer to me ) and Big Thunder. But that still places it as a kiddie coaster in my mind. I love Big Thunder, but it's not that trilling in the grand scheme of things... Though to be fair, it is for Disney.

Yeah, by the standard of Six Flags, pretty much every coaster at Disney is a kiddie coaster.

 

[spacemt354]

I don't think that's necessarily true though truth be told, that area doesn't need another ride. I think people would take issue if that was the ONLY ride going in when the park needs so much more. It needs another E ticket desperately before it needs smaller rides. But like on the Avatar thread... People are generally welcoming the idea of an E ticket and a C ticket. Now if it were only a C ticket, yeah, we might have a problem because it would again demonstrate Disney's short sightedness and cheapness. If they said a C ticket is coming tomorrow and an E ticket is coming in a few years, I wouldn't have a problem. I think most people recognize the parks can't survive alone on the big rides. I know I think that way, even if I think a few E tickets are sorely needed.

Also, yeah, sorry, but the SDMT should not be taking as long as it is. It's not an E ticket. It is a kiddie coaster. I'm sure it will be a very enjoyable kiddie coaster but the amount of construction time is ridiculous.

The bolded is the issue though. Ever since WWoHP and Carsland, people expect park expansions to be huge lands with at least an E-ticket. This type of thinking I believe contributed to why people were "meh" about the FLE. It seems like it's a "full land or bust" mentality these days.

NoChesterHester's example was not meant to be taken literally, at least in my interpretation. Yes, Dinoland area doesn't really need another attraction, but it was a hypothetical situation, in which the bigger message was that C-tickets are necessary and important for theme parks, and their significance in parks tends to be neglected since everyone is thinking E-tickets. If there are ever two parks that DON'T really need E-tickets, It would be DHS and DAK. They are set for the most part in that category, though 1 more in each park wouldn't hurt. What these parks need are filler attractions. Rides like TTA, or a flat ride, or an indoor dark ride. Not something spectacular or life-changing, but something to spread out crowds and give people more options, especially options for the whole family, since some thrilling E-tickets split up families due to motion sickness or physical aliments, etc.

And in regards to SDMT. I'm sorry, but that "kiddie coaster" definition really sells the attraction short to me. Haven't been on it (...nobody has), but from the videos that have been online, the ride vehicles themselves, and the overall product that is being put into place, it is hardly just a kiddie coaster. To me, calling SDMT a kiddie coaster is like calling Space Mountain a "runaway mouse coaster." I'm sure people will disagree with my analysis and say I'm over-exaggerating but it's simply incorrect in my view to define it as a kiddie coaster. The Barnstormer is a kiddie coaster. Minimal theme, mild thrills, short ride. It's already been said that the ride itself will be in between BTMR and Barnstormer (aka more of a ride than Barnstormer) and the themes are already head over heels superior to it. In my eyes it's more comparable to BTMR than to Barnstormer, however still inferior to BTMR.

SDMT a D-ticket. Barnstormer (a kiddie coaster) is not a D-ticket. That's why I find the kiddie coaster definition of SDMT incorrect.

 

[bubbles1812]

The bolded is the issue though. Ever since WWoHP and Carsland, people expect park expansions to be huge lands with at least an E-ticket. This type of thinking I believe contributed to why people were "meh" about the FLE. It seems like it's a "full land or bust" mentality these days.

NoChesterHester's example was not meant to be taken literally, at least in my interpretation. Yes, Dinoland area doesn't really need another attraction, but it was a hypothetical situation, in which the bigger message was that C-tickets are necessary and important for theme parks, and their significance in parks tends to be neglected since everyone is thinking E-tickets. If there are ever two parks that DON'T really need E-tickets, It would be DHS and DAK. They are set for the most part in that category, though 1 more in each park wouldn't hurt. What these parks need are filler attractions. Rides like TTA, or a flat ride, or an indoor dark ride. Not something spectacular or life-changing, but something to spread out crowds and give people more options, especially options for the whole family, since some thrilling E-tickets split up families due to motion sickness or physical aliments, etc.

And in regards to SDMT. I'm sorry, but that "kiddie coaster" definition really sells the attraction short to me. Haven't been on it (...nobody has), but from the videos that have been online, the ride vehicles themselves, and the overall product that is being put into place, it is hardly just a kiddie coaster. To me, calling SDMT a kiddie coaster is like calling Space Mountain a "runaway mouse coaster." I'm sure people will disagree with my analysis and say I'm over-exaggerating but it's simply incorrect in my view to define it as a kiddie coaster. The Barnstormer is a kiddie coaster. Minimal theme, mild thrills, short ride. It's already been said that the ride itself will be in between BTMR and Barnstormer (aka more of a ride than Barnstormer) and the themes are already head over heels superior to it. In my eyes it's more comparable to BTMR than to Barnstormer, however still inferior to BTMR.

SDMT a D-ticket. Barnstormer (a kiddie coaster) is not a D-ticket. That's why I find the kiddie coaster definition of SDMT incorrect.

I wouldn't have a problem with the occasional addition of just a C ticket ride, not a bit... EXCEPT for the fact that each of the parks with maybe the exception of the MK (but even they have gone 20 years without a major new ride... And nope kiddie coasters don't count) needs desperately more. I think this is where a lot of people take issue. Small additions are wonderful. Necessary even. But the parks need those big rides that will draw people in. So yes, I think it's reasonable for people to take issue if only a C ticket were announce with nothing else coming, at least at this juncture in time. AK, DHS, even Epcot, they all need far more.

And that is apparently where we disagree, and where tons of people on this board disagree with you as I see you listed DHS and AK as parks that don't need E tickets. Yes, they do certainly need "filler". I'm not disagreeing with you on that at all. But they need some big rides as well. You can only ride Everest or ToT/RnRC so many times before you call it quits. And that is what a lot of people are doing. The "bigs" draw them and then they leave.
Avatar needs that E ticket to draw people in. It also needs that C ticket to keep people in the land as well.

And I will still say SDMT is a kiddie coaster. It is going to be relatively short. (The track was shortened from the original design). And sorry but I don't find "rocking" train cars to be that impressive. Since littles will be riding this, I can't exactly imagine it will be that "violent." We've got to avoid that nausea as you pointed out, that some of the bigger thrill rides have. The theme... Well I already said it looks pretty. But I found the Mermaid queue pretty, but that ride is no E or even a D ticket. I'm sure I will enjoy Mine Train. I'm not saying I won't. But I'm not going to pretend it is more than it is.

And with NFE... I think there were a lot of reasons why people say "meh." I don't think people would have took issue with it not being a full land except that it has taken (and is still taking) incredibly long to build... Especially when the competition down the road is putting up impressive stuff in relatively no time flat. And for how long it took, this far we've gotten a kiddie play area, a cute litle show that you have to wait all day to see, a clone of an existing attraction, and a clone of an attraction on the West Coast, which had the queue of an E ticket but is a C ticket. And a very nice if a bit overrated restaurant. Forgive me if I wasnt that impressed that for the amount of money spent, that is what we got.

And that's not to say I didnt enjoy NFE. I did actually. I liked everything. It was nice, and pretty. But I know Disney could have done more. I've seen them do more. But for the amount of money spent, I don't think it's potential was realized.

 

[spacemt354]

I wouldn't have a problem with the occasional addition of just a C ticket ride, not a bit... EXCEPT for the fact that each of the parks with maybe the exception of the MK (but even they have gone 20 years without a major new ride... And nope kiddie coasters don't count) needs desperately more. I think this is where a lot of people take issue. Small additions are wonderful. Necessary even. But the parks need those big rides that will draw people in. So yes, I think it's reasonable for people to take issue if only a C ticket were announce with nothing else coming, at least at this juncture in time. AK, DHS, even Epcot, they all need far more.

And that is apparently where we disagree, and where tons of people on this board disagree with you as I see you listed DHS and AK as parks that don't need E tickets. Yes, they do certainly need "filler". I'm not disagreeing with you on that at all. But they need some big rides as well. You can only ride Everest or ToT/RnRC so many times before you call it quits. And that is what a lot of people are doing. The "bigs" draw them and then they leave.
Avatar needs that E ticket to draw people in. It also needs that C ticket to keep people in the land as well.

And I will still say SDMT is a kiddie coaster. It is going to be relatively short. (The track was shortened from the original design).

If you mean 20 years without an E-ticket thrill ride, then yes. But that is a very narrow window to look through to me. Disney isn't Six Flags, or even Uni. They aren't going to pump out coaster after coaster and call that their E-ticket attractions. E-ticket Disney rides can range from Haunted Mansion to Tower of Terror.

Since Splash Mountain, MK has had numerous additions, Alien Encounter wasn't a major addition at its time? Mickey's PhillarMagic (an E-tikcet show in my book)? Buzz Lightyear? even Winnie the Pooh? Not saying the later 2 are E tickets, but the MK has added a lot of attractions over the years. Are they the garden variety thrill E-ticket rides? No, but again, this is Disney.

I said that DHS/DAK could use another E-ticket each. That would give 3 in each park (ToT/RNRC/E#3, Everest,Dinosaur, Avatar?) However, as you said, if the bigs draw people in and then they leave, then that is primarily due to the fact that there is relatively nothing else to do. More E-tickets, though welcome additions, aren't necessarily the main cause for concern at DHS and DAK. That was my point. It's not a bad position to be in either. I'd much rather have big attraction that draw people in, rather than have minor attractions and be in desperate need of an E-ticket.

And say what you must with regard to SDMT, but it's not a proper definition. Earlier in these threads a poster had said the ride will clock in at around 2:30-3:00 minutes. For comparison sake, BTMR i believe is around 3:00-3:30, and Barnstormer is 30-40 secs. While yes, we all know the ride was shortened, that has nothing to do with the fact that this is not a kiddie coaster.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Since Splash Mountain, MK has had numerous additions, Alien Encounter wasn't a major addition at its time? Mickey's PhillarMagic (an E-tikcet show in my book)? Buzz Lightyear? even Winnie the Pooh? Not saying the later 2 are E tickets, but the MK has added a lot of attractions over the years. Are they the garden variety thrill E-ticket rides? No, but again, this is Disney.

The Extra TERRORestrial Alien Encounter replaced Mission to Mars. Mickey's PhilharMagic replaced Legend of the Lion King. Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters replaced Take Flight. The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh replaced Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

 

[bubbles1812]

If you mean 20 years without an E-ticket thrill ride, then yes. But that is a very narrow window to look through to me. Disney isn't Six Flags, or even Uni. They aren't going to pump out coaster after coaster and call that their E-ticket attractions. E-ticket Disney rides can range from Haunted Mansion to Tower of Terror.

Since Splash Mountain, MK has had numerous additions, Alien Encounter wasn't a major addition at its time? Mickey's PhillarMagic (an E-tikcet show in my book)? Buzz Lightyear? even Winnie the Pooh? Not saying the later 2 are E tickets, but the MK has added a lot of attractions over the years. Are they the garden variety thrill E-ticket rides? No, but again, this is Disney.

I said that DHS/DAK could use another E-ticket each. That would give 3 in each park (ToT/RNRC/E#3, Everest,Dinosaur, Avatar?) However, as you said, if the bigs draw people in and then they leave, then that is primarily due to the fact that there is relatively nothing else to do. More E-tickets, though welcome additions, aren't necessarily the main cause for concern at DHS and DAK. That was my point. It's not a bad position to be in either. I'd much rather have big attraction that draw people in, rather than have minor attractions and be in desperate need of an E-ticket.

And say what you must with regard to SDMT, but it's not a proper definition. Earlier in these threads a poster had said the ride will clock in at around 2:30-3:00 minutes. For comparison sake, BTMR i believe is around 3:00-3:30, and Barnstormer is 30-40 secs. While yes, we all know the ride was shortened, that has nothing to do with the fact that this is not a kiddie coaster.

Did you ever see me claim that I needed "garden variety thrill E tickets" one after another? No, I didnt think so. I was never suggesting Disney has to pump out giant roller coasters though you seem to have interpreted it that way. And you are right. MK has had numerous additions... And some of them were lovely. Philharmagic is one of my favorite attractions, but I don't pretend that any of them were E ticket attractions. As you seem to agree. Alien Encounter was awesome... It's also gone now. And replaced with something far worse that has the quality and appeal of a rinky carnival ride to most people. So my point remains that Disney has not added an E ticket to MK in 20 years. So not entirely sure what the point of your paragraph was there.. But even more so, the other parks have far more issues than MK.

I do understand your point about the parks in that they need more minor attractions. I don't even disagree with you. But they have problems of getting people into the parks, and E tickets are necessary for that. And for keeping people there. A few minor rides will help people to stay yes, not arguing, but a few minor additions aren't going to get people to stay. Those parks need more. And it would seem Disney actually agrees based on the rumors.

And what does that exactly mean? "A proper definition." There is no "proper definition," just general consensus... which at least I have seen from people on this board who would be in the know... that it on the side of kiddie coaster. I've been on quite a few kiddie rides (including coasters) that clock in around that. Though agreed, ride length does not necessarily equate to being a kiddie ride. And I'm not even arguing that it is more than Barnstormer. It has wonderful theming. I'm not arguing that either. But the ride itself.. Eh, they've cut a decent amount out of (not even talking about length), and from all I have seen, it screams that it on the kid coaster side of things. Doesn't mean I won't enjoy it.

 

[spacemt354]

Did you ever see me claim that I needed "garden variety thrill E tickets" one after another? No, I didnt think so.

I never said you did claim that?

And what does that exactly mean? "A proper definition." There is no "proper definition," just general consensus... which at least I have seen from people on this board who would be in the know... that it on the side of kiddie coaster. I've been on quite a few kiddie rides (including coasters) that clock in around that. Though agreed, ride length does not necessarily equate to being a kiddie ride. And I'm not even arguing that it is more than Barnstormer. It has wonderful theming. I'm not arguing that either. But the ride itself.. Eh, they've cut a decent amount out of (not even talking about length), and from all I have seen, it screams that it on the kid coaster side of things. Doesn't mean I won't enjoy it.

Look there is no need to get agitated. Just because I don't agree with your view does not mean I'm on some vendetta to prove you wrong. A proper definition? Meaning that if Subject A (Barnstormer) is universally determined to be a kiddie coaster and Subject B (Mine Train) possesses attributes superior to the 'kiddie coaster' attributes of Subject A, then how can the proper definition of Subject B be that of Subject A? The way I read it (and pardon me if I'm reading it wrong) but I read the Mine Train = kiddie coaster line as a subtle slight at Disney, because a kiddie coaster is nothing special. I'm not a pixie-dust-pro-disney-nothing-they-do-is-wrong-or-imperfect-ever fan club member, but to me it reads as a cheap shot. Again, might not be true, but that's how it reads to me. Forgive me if that is not your intention. That's just how it comes off.