Well Avatar is already underway. So that.
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AVATAR progress
- Thread starter Tim_4
- Start date
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
Physical construction is underway for Avatar?
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
Still no real Avatar progress... I'll check back when they actually are doing something related to Avatar... I may be waiting a long time...
John
Well-Known Member
Avatar progress......four years from now.LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...... taking a breath.......LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...you get the idea. Progress?......Moving Lion King means progress?......LOL.aaaaaaaa never mind. I gotta go....this thread just cracks me up every time I wonder in.....2017! and we are on schedule....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
So they're spending 10s of thousands of dollars a day and construction hasn't begun... seems about right.
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
In fairness, final design development and R&D is very expensive. You put 30 people working on a project at $85 an hour (salary + benefits + overhead) for 40 hours a week... Well over $100,000...
Yeah. Tens of thousands per day sounds reasonable for a project of this size at this stage.
Models that don't suck cost a lot of money.
Person 1, "So how about a ride of some type?"
Person 2 grabs some chips.
Person 3, "I don't know, I think we're in a post "ride" era. How about an intense walkthrough?"
Person 4, "Where's the bathrooms?"
Person 5, "There sure was a lot of foliage in that movie."
Person 6, "Why didn't we put any Pepsi One in the mini fridge?"
Person 7, "Where's the bathroom?"
etc.
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
I understand you are joking but construction drawings for a big project take thousands of man hours to complete. We all go to Disney for well designed spaces and environments. Don't think for a second that just happens.
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
TDO manager: Hey I see you have the best themed bathrooms finally on the concept art and model.. I still don't see what people are demanding from us.. MEET AND GREETS!!!! Now a meet and greet with a Pandorian, or... wait for it... GOOFY as a Pandorian, will bring people in by the bus loads!!!
Person 8: Um, you realize we have NOTHING here right? A bathroom? A DVC cart, some benches.. and now a meet and greet... Where is the substance?
TDO: Um security, remove Jack now please. This man talks sense... Can't have him designing things for WDW...
Later: James Cameron stops by to see the Avatar progress..
James: So, what do we have?
TDO Manager: Awesome news... we have created a well themed bathroom area, complete with a D- Zone!!!! And some benches, extra space for ECV bound guests, and a Pandorian themed DVC cart... Oh, and the best: GOOFY as a Pandorian.
Cameron: Na'vi not Pandorian.
TDO: What is a Na'vi?
Cameron: I wish Universal wanted this project.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
Fair enough
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
Some perspective on a $100 million dollar development. (A number that this board would lose their minds over if stated for a new attraction. It would be blasted as cheap.)
Soft costs (arch, engineering, and legal) on that scale of project will typically be 6-7%. I would venture to guess that adding in ride systems and art design would add 150% to that. (Perhaps more if it is a unique ride system.)
So for a 100 mil build you are looking at a 116-120 million project cost.
This means that for a development cycle of three years they would burn on average about $450,000 a month. This is before construction! Now this includes ride systems R&D, architecture and engineering, and design and art trades. BUT you can see how the costs get staggering before even the first footer off concrete hits the earth.
Now for construction if we assume a 700 day build then the contractor will incur approximately $140,000 a day in labor and materials. This goes up and down based on what is being installed. This is a big nut to absorb, even for a company like Disney. $4.2 million a month is a lot of Dole Whips.
That is why I go crazy when people throw out statements like, "they need to build 8-9 rides" or "we should see a couple billion dropped into WDW." Unless Disney gets their development costs under control we just won't see a rapid pace of expansion again like we did in the 90's.
With costs and expectations what they are this is all just so unrealistic.
Soft costs (arch, engineering, and legal) on that scale of project will typically be 6-7%. I would venture to guess that adding in ride systems and art design would add 150% to that. (Perhaps more if it is a unique ride system.)
So for a 100 mil build you are looking at a 116-120 million project cost.
This means that for a development cycle of three years they would burn on average about $450,000 a month. This is before construction! Now this includes ride systems R&D, architecture and engineering, and design and art trades. BUT you can see how the costs get staggering before even the first footer off concrete hits the earth.
Now for construction if we assume a 700 day build then the contractor will incur approximately $140,000 a day in labor and materials. This goes up and down based on what is being installed. This is a big nut to absorb, even for a company like Disney. $4.2 million a month is a lot of Dole Whips.
That is why I go crazy when people throw out statements like, "they need to build 8-9 rides" or "we should see a couple billion dropped into WDW." Unless Disney gets their development costs under control we just won't see a rapid pace of expansion again like we did in the 90's.
With costs and expectations what they are this is all just so unrealistic.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
I think that very fair. But when people like myself comment that TDO needs to add a bunch of rides to DHS or DAK, I'm not talking about $200M rides. I think both of tose parks need a bunch of smaller B- or C-ticket rides that should require small footprints and be cheap to build. Even with Disney's overinflated costs for building rides, how expensive is a Fantasy style dark ride or a well themed flat ride?
Maybe I'm naive or unrealistic, but I would think that TDO could build maybe 3 affordable family friendly rides for $150-200M for DHS or DAK and this would go a long way towards improving the capacity of those parks and addressing the "half day park" issues.
NoChesterHester
Well-Known Member
My comments should not be construed to mean that DHS and AK don't need a ton of additions.
They should be able to add C + D ticket attractions, but they don't for two reasons. Both of which are a total shame.
1. No return on investment. The small rides don't generate extra attendance.
2. The fan expectations are that every addition is some sort of life changing experience. When people complain about double dumbo on here I want to pull my hair out. (Mermaid is another story... Any attraction that costs that much should be groundbreaking.)
It seems the only way we ever get the C + D level attractions that round out a park, add capacity, and add depth to the offerings is if they are part of a major attendance driving expansion.
They don't generate first-time attendance, but they do drive guest satisfaction scores, which generate repeat attendance.
People like to bash interactive offerings like Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom, Agent P, etc, but those things score very highly with guests.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
And they help to spread crowds out. That's one of DHS' biggest problems. I wonder if the expansion plan will do enough to help with that because I don't necessarily think more E tickets/shows are what that park needs. If they don't understand why TSM has 100+ minute waits, then they don't understand DHS' problems as a park beyond guest spending and time in park.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Right. Which is why I think it is very important for this (alleged) major expansion at DHS to not just add some E-tickets but to also add multiple other family friendly attractions. Having 2 or 3 smaller family rides is really going to be key for giving people different options of stuff to do and lengthening stays in the park.
It's true that smaller attractions don't drive attendance, but I agree with the comments that they make a dramatic impact on guest satisfaction, return visits and time spent in the park.