AVATAR land construction progress

[ToTBellHop]

WDWs SWL will offer views. It will be quite impressive to see (not discounting Pandora's vistas).

 

[1023]

Do you feel this is a good thing that will help imagineering or is it as I fear, they are firing the old-school people just to be able to push the ideas of lazy, value-engineered and IP-driven projects?

I hope Rhode can survive and that he is assigned a project that is more suitable to his talents than Marvel.

Based on what and who, this is not a good thing. The remaining clarion voices for the quality "we" desire will be few, despite their stature. We have some great, visually stunning work being done, but it lacks in overall substance. Avatar's area will be a decent balance. Toy Story, a waste. SWL will be dramatically different in terms of anything that has ever been done in a theme park (attractions, immersion.) SWL will be a slightly stepped up version of Avatar.

Joe will be fine. His timing will be his own. Craig, not so much. Expect more quality in the next 10 years, but a healthy dose of value engineering.

No specific to the question of "change". More often than not, having institutional memory is the key to future success. Just take off the dead wood.

*1023*

 

[mickey v-neck]

Based on what and who, this is not a good thing. The remaining clarion voices for the quality "we" desire will be few, despite their stature. We have some great, visually stunning work being done, but it lacks in overall substance. Avatar's area will be a decent balance. Toy Story, a waste. SWL will be dramatically different in terms of anything that has ever been done in a theme park (attractions, immersion.) SWL will be a slightly stepped up version of Avatar.

Joe will be fine. His timing will be his own. Craig, not so much. Expect more quality in the next 10 years, but a healthy dose of value engineering.

No specific to the question of "change". More often than not, having institutional memory is the key to future success. Just take off the dead wood.

*1023*

Pleas explain the lack of overall substance comment.

 

[1023]

Please explain the lack of overall substance comment.

Sorry.... Yes, let me clarify. I am speaking specifically to the elaborately themed "mini-lands" that lack the support of attractions equal to their measure. The most obvious failing being NFL (New Fantasyland). Many think this a beautiful work of concrete. It is a huge waste of valuable space that netted the area nearly nothing. There were better offerings on the table, and yet we added tables instead. I think my comments were driven by a post I was replying to that I didn't quote.

In regards to Avatar, this does not apply. The work and the offerings are equal or close. The "land" itself will be an attraction (no, this is not hyperbole). This is a function of those involved and their unwillingness to allow for compromise. The instances in which this type of "determination" or a force of personality drives a project, we end up with masterpieces that last a very long time and are praised by nearly everyone.

*1023*

 

[mickey v-neck]

Sorry.... Yes, let me clarify. I am speaking specifically to the elaborately themed "mini-lands" that lack the support of attractions equal to their measure. The most obvious failing being NFL (New Fantasyland). Many think this a beautiful work of concrete. It is a huge waste of valuable space that netted the area nearly nothing. There were better offerings on the table, and yet we added tables instead. I think my comments were driven by a post I was replying to that I didn't quote.

In regards to Avatar, this does not apply. The work and the offerings are equal or close. The "land" itself will be an attraction (no, this is not hyperbole). This is a function of those involved and their unwillingness to allow for compromise. The instances in which this type of "determination" or a force of personality drives a project, we end up with masterpieces that last a very long time and are praised by nearly everyone.

*1023*

Thanks. Do you know enough to speak on the substance of Star Wars land? What makes you have so little hope for Toy Story Land?

 

[PorterRedkey]

Sorry.... Yes, let me clarify. I am speaking specifically to the elaborately themed "mini-lands" that lack the support of attractions equal to their measure. The most obvious failing being NFL (New Fantasyland). Many think this a beautiful work of concrete. It is a huge waste of valuable space that netted the area nearly nothing. There were better offerings on the table, and yet we added tables instead. I think my comments were driven by a post I was replying to that I didn't quote.

In regards to Avatar, this does not apply. The work and the offerings are equal or close. The "land" itself will be an attraction (no, this is not hyperbole). This is a function of those involved and their unwillingness to allow for compromise. The instances in which this type of "determination" or a force of personality drives a project, we end up with masterpieces that last a very long time and are praised by nearly everyone.

*1023*

I couldn't agree more!

 

[Cesar R M]

Thanks. Do you know enough to speak on the substance of Star Wars land? What makes you have so little hope for Toy Story Land?

The huge cuts and dumbing down of the land. Plus its going to be a simple mini area with carnie rides. Plus it also only has one big attraction (the slinky ride). Apart from that, nothing much.

 

[1023]

Thanks. Do you know enough to speak on the substance of Star Wars land? What makes you have so little hope for Toy Story Land?

Speaking specifically to TSL, the theme will be underwhelming. It will achieve this by delivering the same scheming and similar set pieces to its worldwide cousins. There will be little around it to sell "the honey I shrunk the audience" feel and not enough attractions to support it.

When discussing this subject in person, I like to compare it to "a bug's land". This "mini-land" concept, that was added to "it's tough to be a bug", was probably the most effective use of this paradigm. It was well designed and makes you feel bug sized in comparison to your surroundings. (Well, better than any other iteration.) It also was properly fleshed out with 5 additional attractions (albeit one is a splash pad, ick.) The park at the time needed to add more "kid/family friendly" and this helped. So you added 5 to 1 and incorporated excellent themeing.

When comparing that execution to this (TSL), it seems a bit thin adding 2 to 1 (or possibly 3 to 1). When you get a chance to walk the area, it will still not sell you on your sudden diminutive form. Doing something new would have been better than dumping out the toy box in the backyard. Since we have examples available around the world of what it will mostly resemble in style and execution, it will be what it is, a place to put the kiddies with a step up from Gadget's Go Coaster and a Mater clone.

As for SWL, much like Avatar, you will be thrilled and completely immersed. It will just be in different ways. Kinetic actions around you will keep you involved. in ways no other park area has ever done. Avatar may really create sensory overload. SWL will rely less on the physical environment (although it will still be stunning).

*1023*

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

@1023 thanks as usual for your excellent analysis.

Do you have thoughts on whether FoP will be "accessible"? E.g., do you think there will be non-"bike seats" that guests using wheelchairs can slide from their chairs into? Or do you think it will require steps and/or straddling the seats?

Regarding TSL, do you think the theming will be more sparse than the current iterations of TSL? Or will it be approximately on par?

 

[1023]

@1023 thanks as usual for your excellent analysis.

Do you have thoughts on whether FoP will be "accessible"? E.g., do you think there will be non-"bike seats" that guests using wheelchairs can slide from their chairs into? Or do you think it will require steps and/or straddling the seats?

Regarding TSL, do you think the theming will be more sparse than the current iterations of TSL? Or will it be approximately on par?

Regarding accessibility, as with any modern attraction, very few will be left unable to experience this attraction. From my understanding the ability to transfer will be required. The attraction is slightly more thrilling than "Soarin'" but is a relative in a sense.

TSL, I could not use a better word than yours, it will be on par, possibly a birdie with the right ego stroked at the end. It will be nice to look at. (Some involved in design are still not thrilled with the end result.)

*1023*

PS. I love your moniker.

 

[Atomicmickey]

Regarding accessibility, as with any modern attraction, very few will be left unable to experience this attraction. From my understanding the ability to transfer will be required. The attraction is slightly more thrilling than "Soarin'" but is a relative in a sense.

TSL, I could not use a better word than yours, it will be on par, possibly a birdie with the right ego stroked at the end. It will be nice to look at. (Some involved in design are still not thrilled with the end result.)

*1023*

PS. I love your moniker.

Thanks for sharing your insights. Great stuff.

It's sad that TSL is underbaked. It strikes me as incremental cost, not overwhelming, to add enough detail to tie
the whole thing together. Not sure how those decisions ultimately are justified . . ."it's just for the kids", or something
like that. I can see a discussion about number of attractions, but how they are all tied together . . . well, that's
what Disney does. Witness NFL, no one can argue that it's beautiful.

Is there any chance of the "land design" being plussed at all, or is it locked at this point?

 

[Timothy_Q]

I think TSL is "underbaked" on purpose because I don't think it's meant for anyone too old. DHS has never had much stuff for small children. I know from experience. WDW is meant to be for families and you have to have family areas or at least you should. There are many adults especially the grandparent crowd that Disney loves that can't handle very thrilling rides. Grandma and Grandpa can't pay for these vacations and end up doing nothing but sitting around on benches. Also they are just there to do the family thing and probably haven't spent time detailing everything in the TS movies. They just don't care that much about TSL being totally immersive.

Cheap and generic have nothing to do with age-group.

Fantasyland is for small children / families / grandmas (like you say), and it's an extremely rich and well-themed land

 

[Mike S]

Cheap and generic have nothing to do with age-group.

Fantasyland is for small children / families / grandmas (like you say), and it's an extremely rich and well-themed land

Especially at Disneyland.

 

[rioriz]

I'd almost prefer they do the Hong Kong version now that they have neutered the thing to its bare bones...its a waste of good land at this point with these two lackluster additions, however necessary.

 

[rioriz]

Really excited for the reveals later this month!!!

As I hear from boots on the ground, they could pretty much show full ride videos (sans some details) if they wanted. Most work is now on the outside with ride testing and configuration inside occurring.

I hope they provide a little more about the various things that can be explored around the land also. There's so much that can be done outside of the two rides to keep someone busy for at least an hour.

 

[Rteetz]

Really excited for the reveals later this month!!!

As I hear from boots on the ground, they could pretty much show full ride videos (sans some details) if they wanted. Most work is now on the outside with ride testing and configuration inside occurring.

I hope they provide a little more about the various things that can be explored around the land also. There's so much that can be done outside of the two rides to keep someone busy for at least an hour.

That sounds great!

 

[brb1006]

How many days left until the reveal?

 

[Coaster Lover]

How many days left until the reveal?

I believe the reveal they are referring to will be at the D23 event November 20th from 11:05 am until Noon Eastern Time... so a little over two weeks away...

https://d23.com/d23-event/destination-d-2016/

 

[Coaster Lover]

As I hear from boots on the ground, they could pretty much show full ride videos (sans some details) if they wanted. Most work is now on the outside with ride testing and configuration inside occurring.

If that is the case, a Spring 2017 opening date has got to be what they are going for... right? Or just wishful thinking? Opening this before Volcano Bay would seem to be a great way to steal some thunder from Universal (not that Disney has to do that or anything)...

 

[flyerjab]

I believe the reveal they are referring to will be at the D23 event November 20th from 11:05 am until Noon Eastern Time... so a little over two weeks away...

https://d23.com/d23-event/destination-d-2016/

Sunday, November 20th
11:05 a.m. — Pandora – The World of AVATAR
AVATAR creators James Cameron (writer, director, producer) and Jon Landau (producer) and Imagineer Joe Rohde unveil new details about the immersive, 12-acre land coming soon to Disney’s Animal Kingdom.

↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ This!!!↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑

I cannot wait for the 20th! I so wish I could be there for this event! I am hoping that they show a lot more about the rides. Next year will be interesting to see as it will be a showdown between Volcano Bay and Avatar. UNI has been releasing more about their next gen water park and it sounds incredible! I will be interested to see how WDW handles the opening of this expansion, coupled with what should be an up-and-running RoL show at night. DAK will be an amazing experience next year. Who knows, maybe even the Flame Tree Barbecue seating area will even be finsihed by then!