AVATAR land coming to Disney's Animal Kingdom

[BoarderPhreak]

...Welcome to the 21st Century, we actually care about kids getting lung cancer, heart disease and emphysema later in life...

Perhaps we should care about obesity earlier in life.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

There are far too many uncontrolled factors in any of these experiments to establish a causal link between smoking and viewing smoking depicted in a movie. Moreover, I don't really care about your statistics. No one has ever had a gun held to their head and been forced to smoke; it is a personal choice. Kids are constantly bombarded with lessons about the risks of smoking tobacco (among other drugs) in schools, and, for better or worse, tobacco companies are severely restricted in their ability to advertise. Nobody could possibly be ignorant of the consequences of smoking unless they are willfully so.

Most smokers start when they are teenagers, under the age of 18. You can't vote until you turn 18, but you can make a decision which may well ruin your health for the rest of your life?

You probably haven't had the graduate level courses to be able to decide whether a study on media and smoking proves causation or not. There's a lot of evidence out there, but your one of those "I don't care about your statistics man!" sort of dudes who believes what they feel in their heart and not what scientific studies tell them, yes?

I also do not appreciate the constant assault on filmmakers' freedom of expression by anti-smoking advocates. Stop insisting upon having your personal beliefs mandated on everyone else, and, while you're at it, quit it with the ad hominems and insults directed at everyone who disagrees with you.

You personally attacked me, seems kinda nuts to ask people to stop personally attacking you while you're insulting them!

You are nothing but a rude busybody who can't mind his own business and let others have a little fun.

FYI, these aren't my personal beliefs, Disney willfully cut the smoking out of their family films, and probably won't be seen in any of the other brands, due to the research backing up media and effects on teenage smoking.

 

[doctornick]

I've asked this before, but it just needs to be brought up again. Has anyone actually seen Avatar? Do you remember the plot line? How on earth are they going to put a happy, positive "Disney" spin on that?

Unless I missed something, it's basically the exact same plot as Pocahontas. Is there some sort of problem with Pocahontas not having a "happy, positive Disney spin" or being represented in the parks?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Wow, this thread is populated by people who live in a different century!

They took the caterpillar out of Alice in Disneyland just for the smoking reason.

I don't think Pirates ride causes guests to rape people as you don't see anybody being raped, and I don't remember anybody being raped in the Pirates movies . . . in fact, Disney has banned smoking in their films.

Welcome to the 21st Century, we actually care about kids getting lung cancer, heart disease and emphysema later in life.

Un-believable.

Even your fellow Avatar haters called you an idiot... And your posts prove they are right...

Yes, characters in a movie NOT made for kids causes kids to want to smoke... Not Cruella De Vil in a CHILDREN'S DISNEY MOVIE... Maybe kids want to be drunks because drinking is glorified in a few Disney animated movies????

Look, I can understand some people not liking the movie... I can understand some people not wanting Avatar in the parks... MOST of them have legit arguments against it.. But because a character smokes??? Wow, talk about stupid reasoning... You take the cake...

 

[Captain Chaos]

No, that's just one idiot saying that. Kindly refrain from lumping all of the anti-Avatar folks together with him.

You are right.. I should worded my post to reference the idiot making that foolish comment... I obviously didn't mean all the Avatar haters.. Didn't mean to put you in the same bracket as that other one...

 

[luv]

You are right.. I should worded my post to reference the idiot making that foolish comment... I obviously didn't mean all the Avatar haters.. Didn't mean to put you in the same bracket as that other one...

Thanks. I am firmly anti-Avatar but not for loopy reasons. Well, you might think them loopy, but not for that particular loopy reason.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Thanks. I am firmly anti-Avatar but not for loopy reasons. Well, you might think them loopy, but not for that particular loopy reason.

I probably wouldn't find it loopy, unless it is because the color blue on aliens scares you or you don't like talk, walking, cat-like creatures LOL... Like I said, I can understand why some people don't want Avatar (even if I disagree with their reasoning).. But because characters smoke? yea that is the best one yet... LOL...

 

[englanddg]

Ok, I want to explain WHY I am against Avatarland.

It has to do with mythos, and the development of it (and, no I don't mean the restaurant at Universal)...

Here's why I think Avatar is a sad IP compared to Harry Potter.

While Avatar made a LOT of money, that is not uncommon for a James Cameron film, but that doesn't mean he's very good at building lasting characters and backstory that stick in your mind.

Much like Lord of the Rings, the Harry Potter series carries with it a small library of books which create an even more complete world. The *movie* is not the creation of the myth, the books are. The *movie*, and subsequent rides / developments, are merely visual / physical representations of what people imagined as they read the books.

None of this exists with Avatar. The entire mythos of the planet is stuck in James Cameron's head, and unlike Lucas (who had a similar mythos, but made three films relatively quickly and allowed a print world to flourish around it), that has not happened with Avatar. There were some spring off novels when the movie came out...what...years ago? Sheesh, I barely remember it (even though it is in my DVD collection, I don't grab for it very often. It's just too darned predictable. I know where the story is going, I'm merely waiting for how Cameron is going to twist the presentation.

What new story can be told? The natives were saved, the planet's ecology is all good now...the evil bad guy developers were chased away...what new climax can be told?

And THAT is the issue I have with it. The story is simple, and while visually stunning and really very well done (I did enjoy the movie), I don't think it's the sort of thing that deserves more than a ride at a park. Certainly not a whole world and millions of wasted time and effort when so much else could be done.

It's a flight of fancy. Unless Cameron cares to bankroll it himself, I really wish Disney would skip the efforts. It's a failing IP, I think. I know they are planning future movies. I'm curious what they will do with them. I, for one, don't see how the story progresses at all.

Compare that to Harry Potter...even the end of the last novel left you with questions. "What happens to these characters that I care about?". The same with Star Wars (though, noteably, not many of the Ep 1-3 characters elicit this same reaction from audiences...that's because Lucas did what Cameron does, shallow characters, predictable story, amazing presentation!).

Anyhow, I'm gonna end my rant here, but that sums up pretty well why I don't think Disney should waste any more time on Avatar as a park concept outside of maybe a dark ride at Hollywood Studios.

 

[Magenta Panther]

*snip*

Anyhow, I'm gonna end my rant here, but that sums up pretty well why I don't think Disney should waste any more time on Avatar as a park concept outside of maybe a dark ride at Hollywood Studios.

I wouldn't want Avatar to get THAT much. The attraction was a bad idea birthed by a cement-headed CEO who has no grasp of what a Disney park should be like and thought that a flash-in-the-pan effects movie was a viable threat to Potter (and who has little faith in what's actually available within the Disney legacy).

Diz should just dump the idea. It can say "creative differences" to save face. But it should dump the blue kitty cats and build something original or Disney-based instead.

 

[luv]

I wouldn't want Avatar to get THAT much. The attraction was a bad idea birthed by a cement-headed CEO who has no grasp of what a Disney park should be like and thought that a flash-in-the-pan effects movie was a viable threat to Potter (and who has little faith in what's actually available within the Disney legacy).

Diz should just dump the idea. It can say "creative differences" to save face. But it should dump the blue kitty cats and build something original or Disney-based instead.

Amen.

I don't care if they want to put it in the Studios, though. That would be fine. Don't like that park much, anyway.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

I think Avatarworld stinks on ice. But, whatever. If it means half the crowd will be over there while I enjoy the rest of the park - I can get on board with that...

 

[ctxak98]

Ok, I want to explain WHY I am against Avatarland.

It has to do with mythos, and the development of it (and, no I don't mean the restaurant at Universal)...

Here's why I think Avatar is a sad IP compared to Harry Potter.

While Avatar made a LOT of money, that is not uncommon for a James Cameron film, but that doesn't mean he's very good at building lasting characters and backstory that stick in your mind.

Much like Lord of the Rings, the Harry Potter series carries with it a small library of books which create an even more complete world. The *movie* is not the creation of the myth, the books are. The *movie*, and subsequent rides / developments, are merely visual / physical representations of what people imagined as they read the books.

None of this exists with Avatar. The entire mythos of the planet is stuck in James Cameron's head, and unlike Lucas (who had a similar mythos, but made three films relatively quickly and allowed a print world to flourish around it), that has not happened with Avatar. There were some spring off novels when the movie came out...what...years ago? Sheesh, I barely remember it (even though it is in my DVD collection, I don't grab for it very often. It's just too darned predictable. I know where the story is going, I'm merely waiting for how Cameron is going to twist the presentation.

What new story can be told? The natives were saved, the planet's ecology is all good now...the evil bad guy developers were chased away...what new climax can be told?

And THAT is the issue I have with it. The story is simple, and while visually stunning and really very well done (I did enjoy the movie), I don't think it's the sort of thing that deserves more than a ride at a park. Certainly not a whole world and millions of wasted time and effort when so much else could be done.

It's a flight of fancy. Unless Cameron cares to bankroll it himself, I really wish Disney would skip the efforts. It's a failing IP, I think. I know they are planning future movies. I'm curious what they will do with them. I, for one, don't see how the story progresses at all.

Compare that to Harry Potter...even the end of the last novel left you with questions. "What happens to these characters that I care about?". The same with Star Wars (though, noteably, not many of the Ep 1-3 characters elicit this same reaction from audiences...that's because Lucas did what Cameron does, shallow characters, predictable story, amazing presentation!).

Anyhow, I'm gonna end my rant here, but that sums up pretty well why I don't think Disney should waste any more time on Avatar as a park concept outside of maybe a dark ride at Hollywood Studios.

....WHILE I can see where you are coming from and can respect you opinion because you are polite about it! I do disagree. I have never even read harry potter or lord of the rings...but I love the movies. Books don't necessarily make better movies. Sure some books are great movies in fact many are based on books, but there are also a ton of great movies not solely based on books that are very popular!

I am still wiling to visit the parks because I like harry potter and I like transformers. AND I also enjoy Avatar. I don't go into a theme park thinking about which franchises are made from a great series of books you know!? Sorry if I don't make sense to you but I just don't see how this is going to make a difference! Sure the script could have been better but so could have star wars. The scripts weren't that good but the visuals and the places it touched were so captivating that it had people of all ages engaged in the stories being told! just my two cents here.

 

[englanddg]

....WHILE I can see where you are coming from and can respect you opinion because you are polite about it! I do disagree. I have never even read harry potter or lord of the rings...but I love the movies. Books don't necessarily make better movies. Sure some books are great movies in fact many are based on books, but there are also a ton of great movies not solely based on books that are very popular!

I am still wiling to visit the parks because I like harry potter and I like transformers. AND I also enjoy Avatar. I don't go into a theme park thinking about which franchises are made from a great series of books you know!? Sorry if I don't make sense to you but I just don't see how this is going to make a difference! Sure the script could have been better but so could have star wars. The scripts weren't that good but the visuals and the places it touched were so captivating that it had people of all ages engaged in the stories being told! just my two cents here.

This thread has been known to become uncivil...but I must say, this is a great response!

Look, I get that it would be wonderful to "visit Pandora"...I mean, who wouldn't. And Cameron shot so much eye candy at the screen that you really wanted to be there, and see all of this in real life (hence how he also single handedly spurned the current "3-D" craze). Cameron is a master of presentation and visual effects, but not so much storytelling. And he knows this.

His stories are always cliche, and easy to predict.

But, he presents them so well you are willing to ride the ride, for the duration of the movie. After the movie...not so much.

Tell me, when was the last time you watched Titanic, for it's deep story? I know, myself, I saw it several times in theaters, but it wasn't the story that drew me (though, two times were dates, so those don't count)...but I went to go see the amazing visuals.

Here we are nearly 15 years later, and I could barely tell you the plot.

Compare that to Harry Potter, or even Star Wars (pre "prequels")...where people knew and loved the underlying story.

And, please, as someone who grew up loving Transformers in the 80s, please don't bring up the Mike Bay crap I've had to endure.

We will get into a nerd battle! <grin>

 

[ctxak98]

This thread has been known to become uncivil...but I must say, this is a great response!

Look, I get that it would be wonderful to "visit Pandora"...I mean, who wouldn't. And Cameron shot so much eye candy at the screen that you really wanted to be there, and see all of this in real life (hence how he also single handedly spurned the current "3-D" craze). Cameron is a master of presentation and visual effects, but not so much storytelling. And he knows this.

His stories are always cliche, and easy to predict.

But, he presents them so well you are willing to ride the ride, for the duration of the movie. After the movie...not so much.

Tell me, when was the last time you watched Titanic, for it's deep story? I know, myself, I saw it several times in theaters, but it wasn't the story that drew me (though, two times were dates, so those don't count)...but I went to go see the amazing visuals.

Here we are nearly 15 years later, and I could barely tell you the plot.

Compare that to Harry Potter, or even Star Wars (pre "prequels")...where people knew and loved the underlying story.

And, please, as someone who grew up loving Transformers in the 80s, please don't bring up the Mike Bay crap I've had to endure.

We will get into a nerd battle! <grin>

HAHA ok I promise I wont get into A transformers nerd battle! I love titanic mainly because of the acting. I am very involved in the arts so good acting is a must and for what the actors of AVATAR were given I must say they did well. Considering half of it was shot in front of green screens I am sure.

I can agree the story line if cliché but that doesn't mean the land will be cliché! It could take you on a journey of the land and bring you close and personal with its different creatures and lifestyles! It honestly looks so cool in my head that I am sure if you saw what I see....you might be a little more on board. BUT in the end it comes down to the attractions and I do think AVATAR (just as much as star wars or Harry potter) can create a neat attraction that's re-doable and will amaze its guests! HEY! I am all for something else at AK as long as it feels more real life or mature rather then sticking a random junglebook, bambi or fox and the hound mish mosh land together that ruins the atmosphere!

 

[englanddg]

HAHA ok I promise I wont get into A transformers nerd battle! I love titanic mainly because of the acting. I am very involved in the arts so good acting is a must and for what the actors of AVATAR were given I must say they did well. Considering half of it was shot in front of green screens I am sure.

I can agree the story line if cliché but that doesn't mean the land will be cliché! It could take you on a journey of the land and bring you close and personal with its different creatures and lifestyles! It honestly looks so cool in my head that I am sure if you saw what I see....you might be a little more on board. BUT in the end it comes down to the attractions and I do think AVATAR (just as much as star wars or Harry potter) can create a neat attraction that's re-doable and will amaze its guests! HEY! I am all for something else at AK as long as it feels more real life or mature rather then sticking a random junglebook, bambi or fox and the hound mish mosh land together that ruins the atmosphere!

I disagree. Respectfully, of course! I appreciate your enthusiasm.

But, after decades of having environmentalism shoved down our throats, the last thing that is grossly marketable is alien environmentalism. Walt's "great big beautiful tomorrow" meant destroying wetlands.

Sure, it makes for a great movie (which mostly won it's money due to special effects...zomg, you HAVE to see this movie, cause the special effects are so good...and, you know what, they are good!)...

But, it doesn't make for a great attraction. I have little to no interest in AK as a park as it stands, as it is nothing more than an overblown rendention of the originally planned EPCOT African pavilion.

I was an Arts major, and a member of IATSE...I worked theatre for many years. None of the acting is great. What Cameron is good at is making the scene transcend the acting. He's so very good at that. Setting up the shot, the scene, etc...blows Lucas and even the more recent fan of green screen, Jackman, out of the water.

AK was poorly thought out to begin with, and carries a huge operating expense with the animals. There is a reason Disney didn't have real animals on his Jungle Cruise in Disneyland, part was show, part was expense.

Now, Disney has bitten that bullet, and they need to make something of that park. And I don't see an alien fantasy land being the solution. A dinosaur fantasy land hasn't saved it already...

In my opine, if Disney really wants to make AK successful, it's not about new lands or rides, it's about making the currently hard to navigate and frankly overly boring park fun and interesting for guests...and that doesn't mean new rides, per se...it means guest interactions. Investment in cast members.

Ok, so I'm walking into this park and I see some turtle exhibit...meh...however, if there is a Cast Member telling me how cool this is, and how unique these turtles are, and unique trivia about the turtles, my interest increases.

 

[englanddg]

HAHA ok I promise I wont get into A transformers nerd battle! I love titanic mainly because of the acting. I am very involved in the arts so good acting is a must and for what the actors of AVATAR were given I must say they did well. Considering half of it was shot in front of green screens I am sure.

I can agree the story line if cliché but that doesn't mean the land will be cliché! It could take you on a journey of the land and bring you close and personal with its different creatures and lifestyles! It honestly looks so cool in my head that I am sure if you saw what I see....you might be a little more on board. BUT in the end it comes down to the attractions and I do think AVATAR (just as much as star wars or Harry potter) can create a neat attraction that's re-doable and will amaze its guests! HEY! I am all for something else at AK as long as it feels more real life or mature rather then sticking a random junglebook, bambi or fox and the hound mish mosh land together that ruins the atmosphere!

Oh, one TF nerd point I had to say...do you know who peaked the Transformers in the 80s? With the movie?

Orson friggin Wells!

He was the voice of Unicron. The last movie he did before he died.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

It takes quite a concerted effort to obtain tobacco products if you're underage; so I'm not really sure where you're going with that argument

. . .

But don't restrict my ability to choose what my children watch. I have no problem letting my kids watch films with smoking in them, and you can be damn sure that none of them will ever wind up being smokers. Artists making movies or building Avatar theme park lands (just to be absolutely clear, this is not a defense of Avatarland) should not be harassed for exercising their free speech rights just because the anti-tobacco crowd doesn't like smoking.

You're 100% wrong about where teenage kids get their cigarettes. They get them from friends, with fake I.D.s, steal them from family members. About one in five high school seniors smokes monthly, 14% of 10th graders do and smoking during teenage years is more likely to lead to lifetime addiction . . . and we know where that road can go. Millions of teenagers smoke illegally on a regular basis . . . I think attacking people without having any of the facts is more evidence that you're a cave dweller, albeit one with internet access.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/18/steinberg.smoking.teens/index.html There's a link if you don't believe me.

It's always the parents who cry that, "I didn't raise him" or her, that way, who are in the emergency room while their kid is overdosing, or going through some other horrific experience due to poor lifestyle choices. I could tell you about the decision making ability of teenagers, but you claim to have some education.

I'd guess that your kids are not teenagers, and that you may well think that just making "damn sure" that your kids don't smoke or use drugs or drink is all there is. You simply put down your foot and problem solved, eh?

There are a lot of things you can't do even though we have "free speech rights", such as slander people, expose children to ography, yell fire in a theater . . . of course you claim not to live in a cave so you probably already know about that.

 

[englanddg]

You're 100% wrong about where teenage kids get their cigarettes. They get them from friends, with fake I.D.s, steal them from family members. About one in five high school seniors smokes monthly, 14% of 10th graders do and smoking during teenage years is more likely to lead to lifetime addiction . . . and we know where that road can go.

It's always the parents who cry that, "I didn't raise him" or her, that way, who are in the emergency room while their kid is overdosing, or going through some other horrific experience due to poor lifestyle choices. I could tell you about the decision making ability of teenagers, but you claim to have some education.

I'd guess that your kids are not teenagers, and that you may well think that just making "damn sure" that your kids don't smoke or use drugs or drink is all there is. You simply put down your foot and problem solved, eh?

There are a lot of things you can do even though we have "free speech rights", such as slander people, expose children to ography, yell fire in a theater . . . of course you claim not to live in a cave so you probably already know about that.

Um, this was a complete load of crap.

 

[englanddg]

Um, this was a complete load of crap.

Nothing is more important than societal freedom, and that includes making bad decisions.

Asshats like you don't realize that. So, if you want to debate teenage drug use, lets do so, I can own your .

If you care to preach your mantra and enforce it on others, well, you all will win. The same people who gripe about TSA, support MADD and warrentless checkpoints for DUI. It's a political conundrum...

 

[englanddg]

Please don't pretend to even understand the law when your post so blatantly shows you have no idea about the law (yelling fire in a crowded theatre)