AVATAR land coming to Disney's Animal Kingdom

[Tim_4]

Yes I'm starting another Avatar thread and I will be criticized but I don't care.

There's a thought that comes up in every single Avatar thread and ends up monopolizing the conversation that needs to be explicitly shot down because it is totally false. Avatar IS coming to Disney parks, with construction starting at Disney's Animal Kingdom around 2013. Not "maybe" coming. Not "discussions about coming". IS. This is NOT the same as Hyperion Wharf. The key difference is that Hyperion didn't cost Disney a whole heap of money to license so cancelling it didn't cause any major problems. Disney paid James Cameron and Lightstorm Entertainment a truck load of cash to make this happen, and they're NOT going to back out.

To be sure, once they announce specific plans and attractions for Avatar Land, those plans are likely to change as the process rolls along (similar to Pixie Hollow being cancelled... Fantasyland Expansion was happening no matter what but specific plans were subject to change). But the conversation about whether Avatar is coming at all is misguided. Avatar is coming. Get over it.

(Yes, some catastrophic event COULD happen that causes it to be cancelled but my main point is that they're way beyond the "Iger changed his mind" phase.)

Boo they moved my thread.

Dang moderators.

 

[Horizonsfan]

Yes I'm starting another Avatar thread and I will be criticized but I don't care.

There's a thought that comes up in every single Avatar thread and ends up monopolizing the conversation that needs to be explicitly shot down because it is totally false. Avatar IS coming to Disney parks, with construction starting at Disney's Animal Kingdom around 2013. Not "maybe" coming. Not "discussions about coming". IS. This is NOT the same as Hyperion Wharf. The key difference is that Hyperion didn't cost Disney a whole heap of money to license so cancelling it didn't cause any major problems. Disney paid James Cameron and Lightstorm Entertainment a truck load of cash to make this happen, and they're NOT going to back out.

To be sure, once they announce specific plans and attractions for Avatar Land, those plans are likely to change as the process rolls along (similar to Pixie Hollow being cancelled... Fantasyland Expansion was happening no matter what but specific plans were subject to change). But the conversation about whether Avatar is coming at all is misguided. Avatar is coming. Get over it.

(Yes, some catastrophic event COULD happen that causes it to be cancelled but my main point is that they're way beyond the "Iger changed his mind" phase.)

I'm not going to pretend to know one way or another if Av-land is going to happen. It is still suspect we're this far along with nothing to show for it other than generic press releases.

When it comes to licensing, Disney has bought the rights to many properties and done little or nothing with them. It may seem like a waste to own rights to something you'll never use but, its far less costly than executing an extremely flawed concept.

While they may have (over)spent a lot for this one. It doesn't mean a concept is guaranteed. ALIEN Encounter (Xenomorph version) anyone?

 

[danlb_2000]

Yes I'm starting another Avatar thread and I will be criticized but I don't care.

There's a thought that comes up in every single Avatar thread and ends up monopolizing the conversation that needs to be explicitly shot down because it is totally false. Avatar IS coming to Disney parks, with construction starting at Disney's Animal Kingdom around 2013. Not "maybe" coming. Not "discussions about coming". IS. This is NOT the same as Hyperion Wharf. The key difference is that Hyperion didn't cost Disney a whole heap of money to license so cancelling it didn't cause any major problems. Disney paid James Cameron and Lightstorm Entertainment a truck load of cash to make this happen, and they're NOT going to back out.

So, you are saying it definitely is coming....

To be sure, once they announce specific plans and attractions for Avatar Land, those plans are likely to change as the process rolls along (similar to Pixie Hollow being cancelled... Fantasyland Expansion was happening no matter what but specific plans were subject to change). But the conversation about whether Avatar is coming at all is misguided. Avatar is coming. Get over it.

(Yes, some catastrophic event COULD happen that causes it to be cancelled but my main point is that they're way beyond the "Iger changed his mind" phase.)

but something could happen to cause it to be canceled. So which is it, is it definitely coming, or not?

I am also curious as to where you are getting your information? Do you have sources inside Disney that you are getting this from? You mention the money for licensing, can you provide the actual figures? How much money was guaranteed to Cameron even if the project got canceled? You seem very sure on this so I assume you are privy to the actual number involved here.

 

[Jim Handy]

It is definitely a go at this point. There had been some question in the past, however. But Tim makes a good point.

 

[Tim_4]

I'm not going to pretend to know one way or another if Av-land is going to happen.

I respect your honesty. I'm telling you that I DO know and that I'm not "pretending to know".

When it comes to licensing, Disney has bought the rights to many properties and done little or nothing with them. It may seem like a waste to own rights to something you'll never use but, its far less costly than executing an extremely flawed concept.

That's not entirely true. For example, they've spent more on the fees for Avatar than they did failing to design the Monster's Inc Door Coaster.

So, you are saying it definitely is coming....

but something could happen to cause it to be canceled. So which is it, is it definitely coming, or not?

I mean like... if James Cameron has a sex scandal or a major hurricane destroys half of DAK.

I am also curious as to where you are getting your information? Do you have sources inside Disney that you are getting this from? You mention the money for licensing, can you provide the actual figures? How much money was guaranteed to Cameron even if the project got canceled? You seem very sure on this so I assume you are privy to the actual number involved here.

It's real.

 

[Jim Handy]

The licensing deal for Avatar is being kept very close to the chest.

 

[wiigirl]

Could be pretty cool, especially with James Cameron involved. Hopefully he'll try to push the limits with regard to technology in terms of new theme park experiences.

I hope they do...there are SO many cool things they could do with an Avatar theme.

 

[Tim_4]

The licensing deal for Avatar is being kept very close to the chest.

 

[menamechris]

I think most people at this point acknowledge that Avatar will appear in Animal Kingdom in some way or form. The only debate I have personally seen has been the scale at which it will be done, as cutbacks allegedly began in the blue sky stage, which is never good. I think we will get more than Star Wars - but less than Carsland.

At any rate - people are gonna talk and question. Disney's track record hasn't been great as of late at WDW.

 

[Tim_4]

I think we will get more than Star Wars - but less than Carsland.

That's hard to assess because I know NOTHING about DLR and all the estimates for Cars Land include all the work done that could be tied to the DCA reopening in any way shape or form.

I'd bump your estimate up a bit. Again, I'm no expert on Cars Land so this may be off base but I think Fantasyland Expansion plus an E-ticket will probably be around the scale of Avatar.

 

[Horizonsfan]

That's not entirely true. For example, they've spent more on the fees for Avatar than they did failing to design the Monster's Inc Door Coaster.

You're misunderstanding the statement.

For the sake of argument, pretend that Avatar's rights cost $100 million and Av-land will/would cost $500 million, but is known to not produce a good ROI if executed. It would behoove Disney to stop at just having the rights, rather than sinking an additional 500 mil into a dud of an idea (from a revenue point of view). At least with the rights, Disney could always attempt to resell the rights at a later point and try to recoup a fraction of the original cost. You can't really resell a land from a theme park (though I'm sure a few on here would love if you could!)

Between the relocation FOTLK and the conversion going on at Beastly Bazaar, its clear something is supposed to happen soon at CMM. Whether it does or what it is another matter...

 

[menamechris]

That's hard to assess because I know NOTHING about DLR and all the estimates for Cars Land include all the work done that could be tied to the DCA reopening in any way shape or form.

I'd bump your estimate up a bit. Again, I'm no expert on Cars Land so this may be off base but I think Fantasyland Expansion plus an E-ticket will probably be around the scale of Avatar.

They will fill in the area, I am sure. They are basically repurposing Camp Minnie Mickey and will probably stick (hopefully) an E ticket and a spinner in for the kids. And we have pretty good intel that the ride will be a flying simulator type ride. I don't expect 3 new attractions like Carsland....

And I personally don't expect it to have as large a footprint as the Fantasyland expansion...but thats just me.

 

[Tim_4]

You're misunderstanding the statement.

For the sake of argument, pretend that Avatar's rights cost $100 million and Av-land will/would cost $500 million, but is known to not produce a good ROI if executed. It would behoove Disney to stop at just having the rights, rather than sinking an additional 500 mil into a dud of an idea (from a revenue point of view). At least with the rights, Disney could always attempt to resell the rights at a later point and try to recoup a fraction of the original cost. You can't really resell a land from a theme park (though I'm sure a few on here would love if you could!)

Okay I misundertsood what you were saying and your logic is correct but your timeline is off...

In your example, the ROI forecasts on the $500 million would have already been done BEFORE they decided to pay the $100M for the rights. It's not like they'd pay the $100M and THEN do the math to see if a project would be worth it.

 

[Tim_4]

They will fill in the area, I am sure. They are basically repurposing Camp Minnie Mickey and will probably stick (hopefully) an E ticket and a spinner in for the kids. And we have pretty good intel that the ride will be a flying simulator type ride. I don't expect 3 new attractions like Carsland....

There's kind of a Catch-22 with all of this.

His name is Joe Rohde. If Rohde and Cameron are the creative forces behind this project then watch out. Rohde is known for being 1) A creative genius and 2) A major over-spender. I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather see a well-executed grade-A land than the PLANS for a OMGWTFBBQ A+++++++ land that goes way over budget and turns into a neon blue Dinorama.

 

[Horizonsfan]

Okay I misundertsood what you were saying and your logic is correct but your timeline is off...

In your example, the ROI forecasts on the $500 million would have already been done BEFORE they decided to pay the $100M for the rights. It's not like they'd pay the $100M and THEN do the math to see if a project would be worth it.

Right, they wouldn't figure the ROI after the fact. However, forecasts can always be changed mid-process.

I'd like for the project to happen. I take our insiders words here that the project is progressing slowly. Just playing devil's advocate.

 

[NoChesterHester]

There's kind of a Catch-22 with all of this.

His name is Joe Rohde. If Rohde and Cameron are the creative forces behind this project then watch out. Rohde is known for being 1) A creative genius and 2) A major over-spender. I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather see a well-executed grade-A land than the PLANS for a OMGWTFBBQ A+++++++ land that goes way over budget and turns into a neon blue Dinorama.

Rhode is creative and a stickler for the overall vision. I don't know how amazing his attractions really are because I look at Everest as a good, but not great ride. I am absolutely excited about James Cameron's involvement. He demands excellence and like or hate his movies they are major events. I look forward to this collaboration.

 

[ChrisFL]

Rhode is creative and a stickler for the overall vision. I don't know how amazing his attractions really are because I look at Everest as a good, but not great ride. I am absolutely excited about James Cameron's involvement. He demands excellence and like or hate his movies they are major events. I look forward to this collaboration.

Ya know, I was just sitting at work thinking about Everest, as I was chatting with a friend in the Philippines and has never seen a Disney park.

When I think about everything around Everest...not just the rollercoaster, but EVERYTHING that was built around it...as authentic as it all feels, IMO it is one of Disney's best work at WDW.

Perhaps I have more appreciation of it, because i saw the TV special about him visting Nepal to make everything as realistic as possible.

 

[RunnerEd]

Ya know, I was just sitting at work thinking about Everest, as I was chatting with a friend in the Philippines and has never seen a Disney park.

When I think about everything around Everest...not just the rollercoaster, but EVERYTHING that was built around it...as authentic as it all feels, IMO it is one of Disney's best work at WDW.

Perhaps I have more appreciation of it, because i saw the TV special about him visting Nepal to make everything as realistic as possible.

To a point, I agree with you. From the outside to the top of the mountain, almost flawless. I would have liked to have seen the main lift hill disguised by rock work from the side; when a train is on it in full scale with full scale people, it throws off the forced perspective. On the inside during the backward section, I think it is fairly lame that you can see light beneath the track and a lot of the structure. How much would a canvas tarp cost anyway to fix that? Then there's the Yeti. At this point, I would love to have a functioning, decent quality projection instead of the large, menacing statue that we have now.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Rhode is creative and a stickler for the overall vision. I don't know how amazing his attractions really are because I look at Everest as a good, but not great ride. I am absolutely excited about James Cameron's involvement. He demands excellence and like or hate his movies they are major events. I look forward to this collaboration.

Better collaboration project: Brand new Living Seas.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Better collaboration project: Brand new Living Seas.

Yes!

Cameron is just the right person who can breathe new life into the Living Seas. Let the cartoons find that fish they're looking for so they can be removed.
Then add some deep sea stuff, the kind you won't see in an ordinary aquarium. If they must use the wreck of the Titanic, then fine. Imbue an appreciation for the splendour and drama of the seas throughout the pavilion. Cameron can give the project a popular appeal, by virtue of his name and theatrical experience.