AVATAR land coming to Disney's Animal Kingdom

[devoy1701]

I believe Iger is telling the truth about Avatar. I think Rhode is too. Same goes for Landu. I believe everyone who tells me that Avatar is in the middle of the hard core design phase. I also believe 74 for saying Cameron and Disney have disagreements. It's all part of the process of creating an attraction. The only thing I disagree with him on is that notion that Avatar is a lost cause so to speak. Reason I disagree with him on that is, I've sat through enough of this stupid design meetings to know how the process works. Even if it is at a different park.

One side has an idea, the other has their own idea. Both sides get testy. Both sides go pout in the corner. Come back, talk about it some more. Start to agree on a few things. Then they disagree again. Go pout some more. They come back and start to agree again. That whole chain of events repeats over and over until an attraction is created. Everyone thinks they are right and their idea is best. Once they have their blow ups everything can start to come together. At least in my experience that's how it works.


First, the deal was in ink. Not a handshake deal. There are no handshake deals. Second, the press confrence was to announce that Disney had struck a deal for the rights to Avatar and that a land for Animal Kingdom was entering the design phase. Cameron was sold on the basic vision for the land and went with Disney. Now they all get to design the land from the ground up. That takes time and patience(more of the second considering all the bickering and ego battles in a process like this).

Hey there new to the forum, long time reader. I just wanted to say that the speculation about this is amusing for sure. People here on one hand say they want something ground-breaking and E-ticket... but on the other hand they want info now. The problem is, Disney jumped the gun on the announcement and were just in the beginning stages. Being in the beginning stages, does anybody really expect them to be announcing every little change that happens? Having a press conference for every detail change would be ridiculous.

I would say that 74's assessment of the chances being 30/70 are right.. on some days. Other days I would say it goes the other way. Because as many of you have said, this is how design phase meetings work. Bottom line, if this is going to be groundbreaking and stunning, something James Cameron can pull off, information is not going to flow freely to the masses.

I for one loved Avatar and know many people who do. I think some hardcore Disney fans don't like it because it challenges the imagination Disney once had with their films. I love the story of Avatar.. I love the imagery and I personally think it will translate into one heck of a theme-park area. If it is a giant building, as some say, imagine the possibilities... the ceiling a giant series of screens projecting the floating mountains in the day... the nearby planets and moons at night. Imagine the interactive and responsive plantlife. Imagine the possibilities for riding a spaceship or one of the animals! A roller coaster could emulate the riding of a dragon so well!

This is the ultimate issue that we're all at odds about. Disney, plain and simple, jumped the gun on the announcement. Why they did so...obviously not to get the reaction they got from the fan base...because fan forums and social media followers alike seemed to overwhemingly not like the idea...or not think it was the best fit. I imagine Disney is kicking themselves for the way they made the announcement now, as it probably would have been better if they had released initial concept art with this announcement like they have done with every other announcement in the past for P&R. At least that would have given us something to cling to.

I also don't know how many times we have to restate that no one is saying that Avatarland is cancelled... :shrug:

Also, when did this turn into a pro-Beastly Kingdom/anti-Avatarland thing? I think Cyclone was again the one who was making the assumption that those who are against Avatarland were in that camp because they want Beastly Kingdom... not sure how A leads to B on that one.

I don't think he said it was "doomed". He said it was troubled, and that he put the odds of it actually happening at less than 50%. He has reasons for saying that.



If I were a betting man....

So I just realized that an ultimate wedding gift would be to have a nice long dinner with Spirit and Lee... so let me know the next time you guys are both in Central FL so we can make this happen!

 

[Pentacat]

I have been sceptical of this since its announcement, but I just watched James Cameron's interview on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, and let's just say it kinda changed how I now feel.

He could very well be the man that reinvigorates WDI passion for perfection and not overlooking any aspect. There was a scene in the Titanic where the stars in the sky wouldn't look like that way at that time, at that position. He changed it.

So while Avatar may not be the best fit for a Disney theme park, I'm a little more assured that he and Disney will make it work and flow seamlessly.

I saw that last night to and no one would deny that James Cameron is an interesting man.

HOWEVER, this is a guy that was willing to strap himself into a submersible and be the first man to solo dive to the deepest point of the entire ocean. I think that gives a pretty good insight into his persona. Does it sound like someone willing to compromise on his vision of what an Avatar attraction should be? Avatar may not be an original or ground-breaking story but is HIS.

If Avatar gets killed it will be because TWDC doesn't want to spend the kind of money that Cameron wants to bring this thing to life.

 

[G00fyDad]

I saw that last night to and no one would deny that James Cameron is an interesting man.

HOWEVER, this is a guy that was willing to strap himself into a submersible and be the first man to solo dive to the deepest point of the entire ocean. I think that gives a pretty good insight into his persona. Does it sound like someone willing to compromise on his vision of what an Avatar attraction should be? Avatar may not be an original or ground-breaking story but is HIS.

If Avatar gets killed it will be because TWDC doesn't want to spend the kind of money that Cameron wants to bring this thing to life.

They have already said $500 million. Unless he starts holding out for more money then that is the amount he knew of going into this.

But yes, I think that if the project gets killed it will be because he wants far more out of it (money or creatively) than Disney does.

 

[Alektronic]

The official name for the project (for now, at least) is:

PANDORA - The World of Avatar at Disney's Animal Kingdom

 

[rioriz]

The official name for the project (for now, at least) is:

PANDORA - The World of Avatar at Disney's Animal Kingdom

So how does this relate to the recent conversations? Are you saying it is still on as they have created a new working title?

 

[orky8]

Yes he did. That's why I said something in the first place. I don't believe this 30/70 stuff either. It's either canceled or it's not. They're acting like if the imagineers don't come up with something immediately, it's canceled. That's not how it works. The people above them are the ones that make those decisions.

I don't know why I'm bothering responding, but your statement is inconsistent. If someone says 30/70, then clearly he's saying its not cancelled. He's giving odds on it BEING CANCELED.

It. Is. Not. Cancelled. YET.

Apparently, nor is really moving forward. It may never be canceled, and yet still never be built. 10 years from now, someone may walk into the office of an Imagineer and say, "hey, whatever happened to that Avatar project?" and they both remenisce fondly and shrug their shoulders.

Is this really that hard of a concept?

I'll give you another example. A few years ago, Disney bought a piece of land at National Harbor near D.C. As Disney isn't in the business of just speculatively buying land, most presumed that they intended to build something there. But nothing happened. And then, nothing happened. And then, nothing happened. It appeared the project had been cancelled, but nothing official was announced for many years, when Disney finally said it would not build anything and sell back the land. Avatar is the same. At one point, they clearly intended to do something. Then, something changed. Is it cancelled? No, not technically. But it appears it is stalled, and may be indefinitely.

 

[njDizFan]

This is the ultimate issue that we're all at odds about. Disney, plain and simple, jumped the gun on the announcement. Why they did so...obviously not to get the reaction they got from the fan base...because fan forums and social media followers alike seemed to overwhemingly not like the idea...or not think it was the best fit. I imagine Disney is kicking themselves for the way they made the announcement now, as it probably would have been better if they had released initial concept art with this announcement like they have done with every other announcement in the past for P&R. At least that would have given us something to cling to.

I also don't know how many times we have to restate that no one is saying that Avatarland is cancelled... :shrug:

Also, when did this turn into a pro-Beastly Kingdom/anti-Avatarland thing? I think Cyclone was again the one who was making the assumption that those who are against Avatarland were in that camp because they want Beastly Kingdom... not sure how A leads to B on that one.



So I just realized that an ultimate wedding gift would be to have a nice long dinner with Spirit and Lee... so let me know the next time you guys are both in Central FL so we can make this happen!

Devoy congrats and have a great voyage. And if there is room for one more count me in. That way I get a chance to give you a wedding gift(Figment plush...sorry to give away the suprise). Also the first round is on me.

And correct, how many times did '74 emphatically say this is not 100% cancelled...just on life support.

 

[devoy1701]

Devoy congrats and have a great voyage. And if there is room for one more count me in. That way I get a chance to give you a wedding gift(Figment plush...sorry to give away the suprise). Also the first round is on me.

And correct, how many times did '74 emphatically say this is not 100% cancelled...just on life support.

Thanks! 29 more days till the wedding...30 days until we sail...stress levels rising to the roof as we try to get all the last minute fire drills smoothed out.

I think you just sweetened the offer to Lee and Spirit btw...first round paid for... (how many rounds would we get through over you think? :lol

Looking forward to a Figment plush...kind of sad it won't be a Duffy though (not really!)!

It's not inconsistent.


Go to business school and study corporate structure I guess. Or get a book from the library. This isn't how it works. A decision will be made to kill the project. Yes, in all likelihood it won't be revealed to the public, but still that decision will be made. A huge investment and design project like this doesn't just slowly melt away and evaporate without people deciding one or another for that to happen. The people that make those decisions are not the imagineers.

It's being designed and planned. They can't wave a wand and have it magically appear.

Not really. After working for a Fortune 500 company for many years and now a start up company...I can attest that many projects find a way to "end" without ever officially being cancelled. Whether people get reassigned, priorities shift, funds allocated elsewhere...not everything gets "cancelled" or "axed." Sometimes companies have such a hard time admitting that something was a bad decision that no one wants to be the one to make the decision to cancel something as it would be like conceding to the criticism.

There are many MANY Disney projects that never came to fruition but were never "officially" cancelled...whether publically or internally.

 

[orky8]

It's being designed and planned. They can't wave a wand and have it magically appear.

I'm sorry, and besides corporate PR spin, you state this on what authority?

Disney's PR said for a long time they were doing something with National Harbor and yet . . .

 

[Captain Chaos]

I have to agree with Cyclone here regarding 74.... I appreciate 74's posts, but, Cyclone is right... he did pop in here after a month of not saying anything in this thread with this little post that everyone seems to be ignoring:

No, it isn't.

(sorry, reflex to the thread topic after 168 pages)

That statement basically says IT IS DEAD... I don't see how that says anything other than IT IS DEAD...

Thread Topic: AVATAR LAND COMING TO DISNEY'S ANIMAL KINGDOM
74's reflex: NO IT ISN'T

Then he backtracks later with the 30/70 comment...

 

[stitch2008]

That would indicate 74 doesn't really know what he's talking about if he thinks disagreements in the design phase mean the entire project is "doomed." My problem with him is he's speaking as an authority when he's not. Really, I seriously doubt the higher ups are going to flush an obvious cash cow down the toilet. It just doesn't work that way. Disney has made mistakes before, but they're not that idiotic.

I think people's need for instant gratification in this instance is ridiculous. It's like they wanted to see design sketches the moment if was announced. Then paranoia sets in because Disney doesn't want to prematurely talk about something still in the design phase, and that paranoia can be taken advantage of by generating rumors to feed a doom and gloom atmosphere and an anti-Avatar bias.

No it doesn't. It means he has heard that its having trouble. Not surprising. Where I disagree with him is that I don't think it's in real danger of not happening. And I feel that way cause I've sat through this process before. Maybe he'll be right. These kind of things do go bad on ocassion. Just ask Dollywood, Hersheypark, and Universal how that goes.

Yeah I agree, plus didn't he mention something at the shareholders meeting? Like a definitive date (2015)? If it was already dead by then, would that be a type of fraud? Granted disney may have an "option" on avatar as a theme park, and a drop dead time period if nothing get's going...but that time period is probably years, not months. I doubt they would pay money to just walk away if cameron got a lil' sticky with the details.

I dont have any reason to believe Iger is lying or anything.

I don't think he said it was "doomed". He said it was troubled, and that he put the odds of it actually happening at less than 50%. He has reasons for saying that.

As I said above, the only reason I disagree with his view is cause I've heard this kinda story before. Heck, I've lived it. Ive watched GM's, engineers, designers, accountants, and marketing people all foam at the mouth, throw a tantrum, throw stuff across the table, call names. I've even heard a story once that a member of a design firm went out to the street with a megaphone shouting obscenity's about the park to people driving past.

As I say, he may be right. But to me, both in my work and in other industry, I've seen this story before. I like to say situations like this are "going". Not going well, not going bad. There going. :shrug:

Hey there new to the forum, long time reader. I just wanted to say that the speculation about this is amusing for sure. People here on one hand say they want something ground-breaking and E-ticket... but on the other hand they want info now. The problem is, Disney jumped the gun on the announcement and were just in the beginning stages. Being in the beginning stages, does anybody really expect them to be announcing every little change that happens? Having a press conference for every detail change would be ridiculous.

I would say that 74's assessment of the chances being 30/70 are right.. on some days. Other days I would say it goes the other way. Because as many of you have said, this is how design phase meetings work. Bottom line, if this is going to be groundbreaking and stunning, something James Cameron can pull off, information is not going to flow freely to the masses.

Yes yes yes. Exactly. Thank you. :sohappy:

I can now vouch for the Spirit's credibility, not that he needs help from little ol' me. But he is right, Del Taco is way better than Taco Bell. He speaks the truth on all matters. :wave:

________________________

~have one for me on that cruise!~

If it's not Chipotle, whatever it is will always be #2. :slurp:

The official name for the project (for now, at least) is:

PANDORA - The World of Avatar at Disney's Animal Kingdom

As I have heard as well.

 

[Alektronic]

So how does this relate to the recent conversations? Are you saying it is still on as they have created a new working title?

What was the old working title?

It is still in the creative process, a lot of engineering drawings, concepts, tech specs, testing, etc. They need a place to store all the documentation, basically like an online Disney Vault where they keep all the current and past documentation. There are hundreds of Disney Projects that didn't get funded, but are still in the Vault.

So if it eventually gets built or not, there will still be plenty of prints and plans.

Just like the Monster's Inc Door Vaulter project, it was already to go, blueprints, tech specs, vendor reqirements, ride operation and maintenance manuals and everything was ready to go but it didn't get funded, at least for now.

 

[Lee]

I have to agree with Cyclone here regarding 74.... I appreciate 74's posts, but, Cyclone is right... he did pop in here after a month of not saying anything in this thread with this little post that everyone seems to be ignoring:



That statement basically says IT IS DEAD... I don't see how that says anything other than IT IS DEAD...

Thread Topic: AVATAR LAND COMING TO DISNEY'S ANIMAL KINGDOM
74's reflex: NO IT ISN'T

Then he backtracks later with the 30/70 comment...

If I may...
'74 did not backtrack.
He has plainly stated that he believes that it won't happen. That is all his statement says or implies, his belief that the chances that it happens are somewhere around 30%.

Also, as I stated above, he has reason to think that. It's not just something he is making up for fun. Believe it or not, doesn't matter.

 

[ToTBellHop]

He did backtrack. He said it won't happen. He stated it as a fact in a snide, matter of fact way. If he said, "I don't believe it will come to DAK" that would be different. But that's not what he did.

It would be like if I said, "The presidential election isn't happening on November 6th." People are entitled to take your words at face value.

Why do you care so deeply about this? It has been clearly stated when '74 meant. Let it go and move on. If you disagree with him, fine. But the constant back and forth, he said/he said is obnoxious and makes it very difficult to find any of the actual information within the 2531 posts in this thread.

For the record, if I think there is about a 30% chance of something happening, I'm pretty comfortable saying it won't happen. If there is a 30% chance of rain today, I usually leave the umbrella at home. If my students get a 30% on all of their exams, I am comfortable saying they will not pass and would not make good nurses.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't know why people engage with new posters who appear and from day one jump right into the heavy threads with a dozen posts time and time again.

I find it quite fitting the ad shown on this page for my view was for SOCKS...

 

[Lee]

It would be like if I said, "The presidential election isn't happening on November 6th." People are entitled to take your words at face value.

No, that's a bad analogy.
It's more like if there was a thread saying "Romney is going to win the election in November" and you replied, "No, he's not."

It is a case of stating your belief, based I what you think the odds are, of something happening or not.
He believed there is only a 30% chance Avatar will happen. Based on those odds it is perfectly reasonable for him to say "No, it isn't."

Any further debate on this particular topic is unnecessary and obviously just done to be contrary.

 

[Captain Neo]

too bad John Carter bombed. I would have rather had Barsoom land over Pandora but I guess that's too high brow for the general audience.

 

[Captain Chaos]

If I may...
'74 did not backtrack.
He has plainly stated that he believes that it won't happen. That is all his statement says or implies, his belief that the chances that it happens are somewhere around 30%.

Also, as I stated above, he has reason to think that. It's not just something he is making up for fun. Believe it or not, doesn't matter.

Lee, I understand he is your friend, and you sniff the Spirit dust, but he backtracked... He specifically said IT IS DEAD... then Oh wait, well, it is 30/70... That is back tracking... if Jim Hill released an article tomorrow saying AVATAR is dead, then the next day said, well, wait, it is like 30/70... '74 would be here claiming Hill doesn't know anything of what he is talking about, he is backtracking to protect himself, and he is being used...

Can't say one is backtracking and the other isn't... Backtracking is backtracking... '74 backtracked...

 

[ctxak98]

I have to agree a little with most of you at the moment. I would say right now Avatarland is 50/50 based on the actual facts we have about the land at the moment. I am hoping for this land to pull through because I am a HUGE fan of Avatar and the world of Pandora. I hope there really is some kind of work being done on the concepts but like 74 and many others have said, it could never happen. I also agree with cyclone on the fact it came off as a factual statement instead of an opinion however he fixed his argument and we should all move on.

 

[Lee]

Lee, I understand he is your friend, and you sniff the Spirit dust, but he backtracked... He specifically said IT IS DEAD... then Oh wait, well, it is 30/70... That is back tracking... if Jim Hill released an article tomorrow saying AVATAR is dead, then the next day said, well, wait, it is like 30/70... '74 would be here claiming Hill doesn't know anything of what he is talking about, he is backtracking to protect himself, and he is being used...

Can't say one is backtracking and the other isn't... Backtracking is backtracking... '74 backtracked...

We're gonna have to agree to disagree then.
I know what he meant, and to me it seems rather obvious.
:shrug:

I'll always defend friends, but only if they are in the right, which I believe to be the case here.

Oh, and "Spirit dust"...that's good!:lol: