AVATAR land coming to Disney's Animal Kingdom

[G00fyDad]

Unfortunately Avatarland is dead. :lookaroun

 

[VoiceInTheCrowd]

They sold Cameron on an idea and they came to a basic agreement. It's the process of detailing every little thing that's the problem. I have no doubt Cameron and Disney are having disagreements. It happens all the time in the industry. And not just with big name directors and people like that. It happens with parks and designers. Take Hulk at Universal for example. Universal wanted Hulk to launch as it does now. B&M did not because they were not believers in launch systems because they weren't reliable. The story goes things got so tense in those early design stages that B&M almost refused to do the whole coaster. A couple people say Universal even looked into S&S's thrust air coaster as an alternative. Now a deal with B&M obviously was struck, but it wasn't easy.

People in this industry clash all the time. You really just have to wait and see I think.

I feel like any agreement they initially reached with Cameron was virtually a verbal handshake so to speak. Nothing really itched in stone. With that said, I don't understand why they then jumped the gun with an official announcement before settling through at least a few major details. I mean, from what I understand they made this announcement with no "real" details as to what they were actually going to build. I think they had a concept but no real direction. A few random designs they presented to Cameron doesn't really warrant an official announcement for me. I don't get what their motivation was?

 

[stitch2008]

It's going to happen. The CEO reiterated that recently. The people calling him a liar are just trying to create a fabricated story to make their selves important in the fan community and feed the anti-Avatar, pro-Beastly Kingdom crowd red-meat. Just because they're still working on designs that haven't been published does not mean it's "canceled."

I believe Iger is telling the truth about Avatar. I think Rhode is too. Same goes for Landu. I believe everyone who tells me that Avatar is in the middle of the hard core design phase. I also believe 74 for saying Cameron and Disney have disagreements. It's all part of the process of creating an attraction. The only thing I disagree with him on is that notion that Avatar is a lost cause so to speak. Reason I disagree with him on that is, I've sat through enough of this stupid design meetings to know how the process works. Even if it is at a different park.

One side has an idea, the other has their own idea. Both sides get testy. Both sides go pout in the corner. Come back, talk about it some more. Start to agree on a few things. Then they disagree again. Go pout some more. They come back and start to agree again. That whole chain of events repeats over and over until an attraction is created. Everyone thinks they are right and their idea is best. Once they have their blow ups everything can start to come together. At least in my experience that's how it works.

I feel like any agreement they initially reached with Cameron was virtually a verbal handshake so to speak. Nothing really itched in stone. With that said, I don't understand why they then jumped the gun with an official announcement before settling through at least a few major details. I mean, from what I understand they made this announcement with no "real" details as to what they were actually going to build. I think they had a concept but no real direction. A few random designs they presented to Cameron doesn't really warrant an official announcement for me. I don't get what their motivation was?

First, the deal was in ink. Not a handshake deal. There are no handshake deals. Second, the press confrence was to announce that Disney had struck a deal for the rights to Avatar and that a land for Animal Kingdom was entering the design phase. Cameron was sold on the basic vision for the land and went with Disney. Now they all get to design the land from the ground up. That takes time and patience(more of the second considering all the bickering and ego battles in a process like this).

 

[Mem11]

Except, the screenplay for Avatar was written before Pochohontas was even released. :brick:

Not quite... from ABC News:

Cameron has said that he wrote the first draft of the original screenplay in 1994. He revised the script for years and waited for the industry's technology to improve so he could shoot his masterpiece

Unless you read the first draft, you have no idea what was or wasn't in the original script. Since he continued to revise it through the years, it's possible he did include elements of Pocahontas in the final version. :wave:

 

[Prototype82]

Unfortunately Avatarland is dead. :lookaroun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

 

[wm49rs]

The main ideas for the film are in that first draft. Avatar has nothing to do with Pocahontas. It's like people think that Disney invented Native American tribes. In actuality, they didn't. They actually existed in the real world.

The source material for Avatar is two science fiction novels James Cameron read in his youth from the 50's. The Princess of Mars (which Disney adapted into a recent flop of enormous propotions) and Call Me Joe. Just because something is an internet meme, doesn't make it true. In actuality, it was Disney trying to recreate Avatar's success with John Carter. They failed hard.



That would indicate 74 doesn't really know what he's talking about if he thinks disagreements in the design phase mean the entire project is "doomed." My problem with him is he's speaking as an authority when he's not. Really, I seriously doubt the higher ups are going to flush an obvious cash cow down the toilet. It just doesn't work that way. Disney has made mistakes before, but they're not that idiotic.

I think people's need for instant gratification in this instance is ridiculous. It's like they wanted to see design sketches the moment if was announced. Then paranoia sets in because Disney doesn't want to prematurely talk about something still in the design phase, and that paranoia can be taken advantage of by generating rumors to feed a doom and gloom atmosphere and an anti-Avatar bias.

I'm just curious, for future edification, but are any of your posts not going to be insulting in nature?

 

[Mem11]

The source material for Avatar is two science fiction novels James Cameron read in his youth from the 50's. The Princess of Mars (which Disney adapted into a recent flop of enormous propotions) and Call Me Joe. Just because something is an internet meme, doesn't make it true. In actuality, it was Disney trying to recreate Avatar's success with John Carter. They failed hard.

The link I provided is a quote from the man himself - if you don't trust ABC News, well I guess that's your prerogative.

Here's another link to an interview Cameron did with Entertainment Weekly:

How did you come up with this story?
Well, my inspiration is every single science fiction book I read as a kid. And a few that weren't science fiction. The Edgar Rice Burroughs books, H. Rider Haggard — the manly, jungle adventure writers. I wanted to do an old fashioned jungle adventure, just set it on another planet, and play by those rules.

Your premise reminded me a lot of the Edgar Rice Burroughs John Carter, Warlord of Mars series.
It's definitely got that feeling, and I wanted to capture that feeling, but updated. To be certain, I wanted a film that could encompass all my interests, from biology, technology, the environment — a whole host of passions. But I've always had a fondness for those kind of science fiction/adventure stories, the male warrior in an exotic, alien land, overcoming physical challenges and confronting the fears of difference. Do we conquer? Exploit? Integrate? Avatar explores those issues.

How long has this been in your head?
I wrote an 80-page treatment 11 years ago. We were working from the treatment in designing the world and the creatures and so on. I wrote the script the first four months of 2006.

Sounds to me like he used the early ScFi books he read as a basis for the environment of the planet, not the actual story. The actual script was not written until the 1st 4 months of 2006.

Did he use elements from Pocahontas? maybe/maybe not. Given the fact that the stories are similar, you can't definitively say he didn't. Based on the facts I've read, I think it's possible he used it. Based on your opinion he didn't - we disagree.

 

[Gregoryp73]

First, the deal was in ink. Not a handshake deal. There are no handshake deals. Second, the press confrence was to announce that Disney had struck a deal for the rights to Avatar and that a land for Animal Kingdom was entering the design phase. Cameron was sold on the basic vision for the land and went with Disney. Now they all get to design the land from the ground up. That takes time and patience(more of the second considering all the bickering and ego battles in a process like this).

Yeah I agree, plus didn't he mention something at the shareholders meeting? Like a definitive date (2015)? If it was already dead by then, would that be a type of fraud? Granted disney may have an "option" on avatar as a theme park, and a drop dead time period if nothing get's going...but that time period is probably years, not months. I doubt they would pay money to just walk away if cameron got a lil' sticky with the details.

 

[VoiceInTheCrowd]

First, the deal was in ink. Not a handshake deal. There are no handshake deals. Second, the press confrence was to announce that Disney had struck a deal for the rights to Avatar and that a land for Animal Kingdom was entering the design phase. Cameron was sold on the basic vision for the land and went with Disney. Now they all get to design the land from the ground up. That takes time and patience(more of the second considering all the bickering and ego battles in a process like this).

I think a handshake deal is a great way to sum it up. I picture it this way, Bob Iger meets with Jim Cameron and they discuss making an Avatar land. They even go so far as to shake hands on it afterwards, of course not without using hand sanitizer immediately following. That night they celebrate with dinner at Nobu while playing footsie under the table. They even go so far as to hold a giant press conference announcing this new Avatar land. At the press conference they basically say this, 'yeah, we're going to make an Avatar land' while preceding to wink and nudge at each other, then snapping their fingers and together saying "GOTCHA". Can't you see it now, James Cameron and Bob Iger the new Martin and Lewis!

Any contract that was physically signed means nothing in the long run, essentially as useless as a verbal handshake, agreement, ride on the current Journey Into Imagination with Figment (ok that was a low blow and I apologize.)

I understand why the actual press conference was held but my question is timing. They announce this without any kind of solid idea where to go with it. I think that Cameron knows the direction he wants to go in. The type of quality he wants. Disney doesn't agree. It really would've been best to have had these discussions before making any major press conference. Just my opinion though.

I know I've poked fun but I honestly feel that both sides did want to make this happen, I think they both just had vastly different motives. Cameron wanted an immersive land that did his film justice, actually brought visitors into that world. Iger on the other hand just wanted to boast his ego. We shall see how it plays out. Cameron certainly has kept busy in the meantime. Whether it be tweeting from the deepest portion of the ocean or re-releasing 'Titanic' in 3-d.

Anyone else feel that Disney jumped the gun with this announcement?

Or perhaps the bigger question is, anyone think that Bob Iger would actually eat at Nobu?

 

[Gregoryp73]

Sounds to me like he used the early ScFi books he read as a basis for the environment of the planet, not the actual story. The actual script was not written until the 1st 4 months of 2006.

Did he use elements from Pocahontas? maybe/maybe not. Given the fact that the stories are similar, you can't definitively say he didn't. Based on the facts I've read, I think it's possible he used it. Based on your opinion he didn't - we disagree.

Probably about the same time the script for "Battle for Terra" was wrote :lookaroun

 

[disnyfan89]

Except, the screenplay for Avatar was written before Pochohontas was even released. :brick:

Just a joke.

 

[Mem11]

Probably about the same time the script for "Battle for Terra" was wrote :lookaroun

:wave:

 

[Lee]

That would indicate 74 doesn't really know what he's talking about if he thinks disagreements in the design phase mean the entire project is "doomed."

I don't think he said it was "doomed". He said it was troubled, and that he put the odds of it actually happening at less than 50%. He has reasons for saying that.

My problem with him is he's speaking as an authority when he's not.

If I were a betting man....

I think people's need for instant gratification in this instance is ridiculous. It's like they wanted to see design sketches the moment if was announced.

With good reason. That is what they are used to: An announcement featuring concept art and (vague) descriptions of the attractions. It's kinda how Disney usually does things.

Yeah I agree, plus didn't he mention something at the shareholders meeting? Like a definitive date (2015)? If it was already dead by then, would that be a type of fraud?

Nope. Not fraud at all, unless he knew better and was lying. I don't think he was lying, but I believe he was putting the best possible spin on the situation, one which he definitely didn't want to have to deal with.

I
Anyone else feel that Disney jumped the gun with this announcement?

Yep. I understand wanting to get it out there to combat Uni's Potter plans, but still....


Also...I don't believe for a second Jim Cameron based Avatar on Pokeherhaunches. It's a common theme, used in many forms of entertainment over the years.

 

[Mem11]

Yes, I can say he didn't. Because the story of Pocahontas was never original in the first place. It's a story repeated in John Carter, which was written about 80 years before Pocahontas. That's what Cameron used as his source material. The influence here is clear. You see the problem is with the people repeating the Pocahontas theory, because they are so uninformed on literature that they assumed the "outsider that integrates into a tribal society" storyline originated with that animated kids film exploitation of a once living person. :brick: I don't know what will happen next. Maybe a film based on Hamlet will be accused of "ripping off" the Lion King? :brick:

Did you bother to read the interview? he said "my inspiration is every single science fiction book I read as a kid." While he mentioned Edgar Rice Burroughs, he never says that was the only influence and you were wrong, the screenplay wasn't written until 2006.

Read and learn... Why don't you try getting off your high horse and mix with the masses and maybe people would actual consider what you have to say.:brick::brick:

 

[Mem11]

Also...I don't believe for a second Jim Cameron based Avatar on Pokeherhaunches. It's a common theme, used in many forms of entertainment over the years.

See Mr. Cyclone, that's the way to express your views. That's one reason why people value Lee's opinion

Quite frankly I only responded because of the original brick wall post... To tell you the truth I've never seen Pochawhatsis and have no idea whether it's anything like Avatar. :wave:

Avatar on the other hand, not one of my favorites and would prefer not to see it in DAK.

 

[Sir-Disney]

Hey there new to the forum, long time reader. I just wanted to say that the speculation about this is amusing for sure. People here on one hand say they want something ground-breaking and E-ticket... but on the other hand they want info now. The problem is, Disney jumped the gun on the announcement and were just in the beginning stages. Being in the beginning stages, does anybody really expect them to be announcing every little change that happens? Having a press conference for every detail change would be ridiculous.

I would say that 74's assessment of the chances being 30/70 are right.. on some days. Other days I would say it goes the other way. Because as many of you have said, this is how design phase meetings work. Bottom line, if this is going to be groundbreaking and stunning, something James Cameron can pull off, information is not going to flow freely to the masses.

I for one loved Avatar and know many people who do. I think some hardcore Disney fans don't like it because it challenges the imagination Disney once had with their films. I love the story of Avatar.. I love the imagery and I personally think it will translate into one heck of a theme-park area. If it is a giant building, as some say, imagine the possibilities... the ceiling a giant series of screens projecting the floating mountains in the day... the nearby planets and moons at night. Imagine the interactive and responsive plantlife. Imagine the possibilities for riding a spaceship or one of the animals! A roller coaster could emulate the riding of a dragon so well!

As for those who would rather focus on the air being poisonous and so on... Why are we able to go to Mars in Epcot?... or into hypersleep? I'm not a trained astronaut. Are we seriously going to climb Everest without some cold gear? a coat at least? or oxygen tanks? Come on, Disney World is about imagination and fun... not being literal and down-to-earth. It's about being a kid again and not thinking about that stuff.

 

[AVPTI]

I have been sceptical of this since its announcement, but I just watched James Cameron's interview on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, and let's just say it kinda changed how I now feel.

He could very well be the man that reinvigorates WDI passion for perfection and not overlooking any aspect. There was a scene in the Titanic where the stars in the sky wouldn't look like that way at that time, at that position. He changed it.

So while Avatar may not be the best fit for a Disney theme park, I'm a little more assured that he and Disney will make it work and flow seamlessly.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

I have been sceptical of this since its announcement, but I just watched James Cameron's interview on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, and let's just say it kinda changed how I now feel.

He could very well be the man that reinvigorates WDI passion for perfection and not overlooking any aspect. There was a scene in the Titanic where the stars in the sky wouldn't look like that way at that time, at that position. He changed it.

So while Avatar may not be the best fit for a Disney theme park, I'm a little more assured that he and Disney will make it work and flow seamlessly.

Neil deGrasse Tyson and James Cameron

This is the story of how the sky in Titanic was fixed.

 

[G00fyDad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

Oh I know. I am just riling up Cyclone. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

 

[DougK]

What a funny 'wittle troll.

I try and stay away from Taco Bell, but enjoy Del Taco and the overpriced Chipotle a lot.

I'll be wishing you MAGICal travels to the moon when I'm on my top one percent 'imaginary' trip to Europe, realizing that you've probably never gone beyond the east coast of the USA ... if that.

I can now vouch for the Spirit's credibility, not that he needs help from little ol' me. But he is right, Del Taco is way better than Taco Bell. He speaks the truth on all matters. :wave:

________________________

~have one for me on that cruise!~