AVATAR land coming to Disney's Animal Kingdom

[danlb_2000]

After I read someones comment about how Avatar was ripped off from Disney's Pocahantas, I started laughing, and laughed harder at how true this is...the Indians were truely 'aliens' in a 'new world' who lived 'primitively' and spiritually...how the giant spirit tree in Avatar was a glorified version of Grandmother Willow...even the story mirrors Pocahantas: humans with superior firepower after gold/unobtainium without conscience, a human befriends an prominant alien/indian female and ends up standing up for the aliens/indians after becoming part of their spirit world...
MAYBE THIS is why Cameron teamed with Disney...Disney threatened to sue him for stealing Disney's idea?!?
Maybe in Pocahatas 3, John Smith will rip off his mask/avatar to reveal that all his people are actually Lizard creatures from another planet here to steal Earth's gold/unobtainium.
Maybe this had something to do with the Pocahantas attraction being shutdown at Animal Kingdom??? (kidding)
Maybe the writer(s) of V will sue Cameron claiming that they had the idea first, with US being the uncivilized planet and the V's, wearing their Avatars, were here to take our stuff, but between the V sympathizers and the resistance we won the battle.

But the basic Pocahontas story isn't a Disney invention, it's based on a legend and has had previous movie adapatations. Not to mention the same basic story is used in Dances with Wolves which was based on a 1988 book. So who really ripped off who.

Dan

 

[Bairstow]

After I read someones comment about how Avatar was ripped off from Disney's Pocahantas, I started laughing, and laughed harder at how true this is...the Indians were truely 'aliens' in a 'new world' who lived 'primitively' and spiritually...how the giant spirit tree in Avatar was a glorified version of Grandmother Willow...even the story mirrors Pocahantas: humans with superior firepower after gold/unobtainium without conscience, a human befriends an prominant alien/indian female and ends up standing up for the aliens/indians after becoming part of their spirit world...
MAYBE THIS is why Cameron teamed with Disney...Disney threatened to sue him for stealing Disney's idea?!?
Maybe in Pocahatas 3, John Smith will rip off his mask/avatar to reveal that all his people are actually Lizard creatures from another planet here to steal Earth's gold/unobtainium.
Maybe this had something to do with the Pocahantas attraction being shutdown at Animal Kingdom??? (kidding)
Maybe the writer(s) of V will sue Cameron claiming that they had the idea first, with US being the uncivilized planet and the V's, wearing their Avatars, were here to take our stuff, but between the V sympathizers and the resistance we won the battle.

http://www.madatoms.com/uploads/content/images/backgrounds/large/article_AvatarChart.jpg

 

[lebeau]

But the basic Pocahontas story isn't a Disney invention, it's based on a legend and has had previous movie adapatations. Not to mention the same basic story is used in Dances with Wolves which was based on a 1988 book. So who really ripped off who.

Dan

Was Avatar derivative of some other stories? Sure. But then again, most big Hollywood movies are lacking in originality. There are studies that break down story archetypes into X number of stories being told and retold. They say there are really only seven plots out there.

People who liked Avatar are usually willing to acknowledge the movies flaws. There are plenty as with any James Cameron movie. Anyone care to name a movie without flaws?

But people who hate Avatar seem unwilling to acknowledge any of the movies many strengths despite the film getting mostly positive reviews, an Academy Award nomination for Best Picture and unprecendented success at the box office.

Haters gotta hate.

 

[Bairstow]

No one cares about Avatar for its plot anyway.
The plot is even less important if we're talking about building a themed area based on it.

 

[lebeau]

No one cares about Avatar for its plot anyway.
The plot is even less important if we're talking about building a themed area based on it.

Who would ever want to visit that?!? It's clearly ripped off from the fantasy worlds of Pocahontas and Dances With Wolves!

 

[Hakunamatata]

Who would ever want to visit that?!? It's clearly ripped off from the fantasy worlds of Pocahontas and Dances With Wolves!

And if memory serves me correctly, the atmosphere in Pocahontas and Dances with Wolves was not nearly as toxic as on Pandora.....and not to mention the deep space flight to get to the indians wasn't as long either...

 

[alissafalco]

What if they made a ride where we fly on an Ikran (Mountain Banshee)? And make the ride system so its similar to Spiderman or Harry Potter?

I totally agree..that would be their best bet, although I feel by the time this is complete it might lose its steam. Hasn't Avatar already?

 

[lebeau]

And if memory serves me correctly, the atmosphere in Pocahontas and Dances with Wolves was not nearly as toxic as on Pandora.....and not to mention the deep space flight to get to the indians wasn't as long either...

Well, that was a clear rip-off of TV's Terra Nova. They even went so far as to cast Stephen Lang! It's amazing how Cameron managed to get Avatar on the big screen before the TV show he ripped off started production.

 

[devoy1701]

Well, that was a clear rip-off of TV's Terra Nova. They even went so far as to cast Stephen Lang! It's amazing how Cameron managed to get Avatar on the big screen before the TV show he ripped off started production.

ahem....Terra Nova takes place on Earth...in the Past! And has Dinosaurs! And the Military is your friend!

so I have NOOOO idea what you're talking about!

:animwink:


:wave:

 

[alissafalco]

No one cares about Avatar for its plot anyway.
The plot is even less important if we're talking about building a themed area based on it.

agreed! Besides Anyone can see the whole movie was based off the American Indians and what they went through. All James Cameron did was change the scenery and colors.

 

[MAF]

By the time this gets built Avatar will be yesterday's news. It already is... :zipit:

 

[lebeau]

ahem....Terra Nova takes place on Earth...in the Past! And has Dinosaurs! And the Military is your friend!

so I have NOOOO idea what you're talking about!

:animwink:


:wave:

I stopped watching relatively early in the season, so I'll take you at your word on that.

 

[devoy1701]

I stopped watching relatively early in the season, so I'll take you at your word on that.

I was just throwing in some sarcasm.

 

[lebeau]

By the time this gets built Avatar will be yesterday's news. It already is... :zipit:

I think you have some kind of timer set up to automatically post the same thing every few pages, no?

This is true of practically any franchise in between box office releases. Nothing unusual about that.

I hate that you guys are making anti-Avatar arguments that are so poorly reasoned that you have forced me to defend it.

 

[lebeau]

I was just throwing in some sarcasm.

Yeah, that's what I figured. I was just following up with a shot at Terra Nova. Which in spite of time travel, dinosaurs and Stephen Lang still manages to be a cure for insomnia.

 

[alissafalco]

I hate that you guys are making anti-Avatar arguments that are so poorly reasoned that you have forced me to defend it.[/QUOTE]

I think it will be cool once it is completed. I just think its risky to do an entire "avatar" section. They should just stick to maybe 1 Avatar ride instead of a whole section. Unless you stick with the classic Disney films & characters, all the other films get dated quickly. We just got back from Universal and I felt the whole park was dated and old. Men in Black, ET, Jurassic Park, Jaws (which is closing now) etc. All of their attractions had lost their steam a long time ago.

 

[MAF]

Disney is just being reactionary as usual. They saw how wildly succussful HP was for Universal so they scrambled to find a franchise that they thought could compete. Too bad they ended up with Avatar...

 

[lebeau]

I think it will be cool once it is completed. I just think its risky to do an entire "avatar" section. They should just stick to maybe 1 Avatar ride instead of a whole section. Unless you stick with the classic Disney films & characters, all the other films get dated quickly. We just got back from Universal and I felt the whole park was dated and old. Men in Black, ET, Jurassic Park, Jaws (which is closing now) etc. All of their attractions had lost their steam a long time ago.

I think that's valid. Very few film franchises are timeless. Star Wars, Potter and Bond are the three that stand out to me. And even then, "timeless" is a relative term.

Disney is just being reactionary as usual. They saw how wildly succussful HP was for Universal so they scrambled to find a franchise that they thought could compete. Too bad they ended up with Avatar...

Even if that is what happened (and there's no way there weren't other factors) so what? :shrug: How Disney reached the decision has no bearing on whether or not the decision is a good one. They could have thrown darts at a board and I'd be fine with it as long as the outcome is a good one.

If you're going to carp, how about at least trying to be relevant?

 

[Tom]

I think that's valid. Very few film franchises are timeless. Star Wars, Potter and Bond are the three that stand out to me. And even then, "timeless" is a relative term.

The thing about that is....we don't know that Potter will actually become timeless. There have been LOTS of huge franchises that seemed to catch on for a long time, but most of those have fizzled out.

Star Wars is a good, and unique, example of one that has literally tested the tolls of time. Bond....I wouldn't go so far as to say it's timeless. Sure, they'll spit out another movie here or there, but it doesn't have quite the cult following as something like Star Wars.

Potter is huge, and has been huge for several years. But, who's to say that in 10 years anyone will give a damn about it. That might become a dead land at Universal for all we know, and it'll sit there and be un-entertaining and un-relevant to guests.

Disney's advantage is that it actually produces its own content. It's not so much animation anymore, but the Pixar division is keeping Disney relevant on a consistent basis. Disney's classic animated films have held their own for years. An example is that they're building a new land at the MK that's based solely on animated features that are 10-20 years old. In my opinion, that displays almost true timelessness.

I lose faith when companies like Disney go out and buy up brands just for the revenue - specifically Marvel. I'm not terribly keen on the Avatar deal, but if it means AK will get a land for the first time in however many years, sure, what the heck. Maybe the technology and theming will keep the land alive and relevant even when the brand itself wears off.

Now, the Muppets on the other hand, are a franchise that I'm glad Disney purchased. I consider it more of an act of salvation than greed. Muppets weren't putting up any numbers, but if Disney hadn't purchased them, there would be no Kermit today. Besides, the brands go hand in hand. Both are quality family entertainment and share the same fanciful attitude.

But as lebeau said, timelessness is relative. Star Wars will see the end of its novelty some day. We'll remember it only in museums, or as one scene in the Great Movie Ride. Saying that Avatar is an insufficient response to Potter is impossible to predict at this time. Yes, Potter has a MUCH larger cult following than Avatar, but there is so much potential with the thematic elements with Avatar, the land itself can mask the brand, making the land timeless in itself.

We'll see.

 

[lebeau]

But as lebeau said, timelessness is relative. Star Wars will see the end of its novelty some day. We'll remember it only in museums, or as one scene in the Great Movie Ride. Saying that Avatar is an insufficient response to Potter is impossible to predict at this time. Yes, Potter has a MUCH larger cult following than Avatar, but there is so much potential with the thematic elements with Avatar, the land itself can mask the brand, making the land timeless in itself.

We'll see.

Great post. Some parts I agree with more than others. For example, Marvel doesn't bother me. And I think it had more to do with making the Disney brand palatable to boys then just purchasing a revenue stream.

And I don't think the purchase of the Muppets was as pure-hearted as you portray. (From my understanding, Eisner originally pursued the Muppets largely because he wanted to "own" Henson too.)

But I really agree with this last part. You can only view "timelessness" through a historical perspective. In 1982, we all thought ET would be a timeless classic. But today, it's a nostalgic memory for most. Only time will tell how well Potter and Avatar fare.

I suspect Potter will be timeless in as much as any franchise is. The books will likely remain popular works of fiction for generations. The movies, probably not so much. But they will run on cable for at least a generation or so. But, I figure there is so much money tied up in Potter that eventually, Rowling or someone else will start telling new stories in the Potter universe. And that, like Star Wars, will extend its life beyond most franchises.

There was a time in the late 80s and early 90s when the Star Wars franchise was dying out. Before those Zahn books, there wasn't a lot of Star Wars merchandise out there. Anything you could find was probably in a clearance bin. It wasn't until new stories breathed some life back into the franchise that Star Wars became truly timeless.

I think most of us (myself included) have doubts that Avatar will ever be timeless in the same way. But as you pointed out, if Disney does a great job creating a fantastic immersive land, it will be timeless even if the source material is culturally irrelevant.