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[Disney Irish]

I was mostly being facetious with that remark but if we're discussing semantics, they absolutely did not commit a majority of the $1.9B to "actual attractions"

Here's the quote directly from their site "The DisneylandForward development agreement, requires Disney to invest a minimum of $1.9 billion in theme parks and lodging within 10 years of project approval."

Much like the zoning approval, its meant to be generic enough to allow them to build whatever they want, they don't want to commit to anything. They could in theory entirely spend that $1.9 billion on the already developed land in either park without ever touching the DLForward areas.

Do I think they'll use all that undeveloped land for hotels? Of course not. But could they? Yes, they probably could spend a bunch of that space on hotels if they wanted to. The only thing stopping them is the room allotment by the city. Hell, they could make the largest one story hotel of all time.

This was brought up during the workshops with the City Council, as I recall the City wanted assurances that Disney wasn't just going to build a bunch of new DVC, which is where it was confirmed they intend to actually use it for theme park. And it was discussed at great length in the DLForward thread, as we had other posters making the same claims that Disney was just going to build a bunch of hotels and call it a day. You can go through that thread yourself and review the discussion.

Also Disney could have always built new hotels prior to DLForward, and had one slated to be built before it got cancelled due to political issues with the City at the time. So they didn't need the DLForward changes to zoning if all they intended to do was just build hotels and nothing else on the West side, as it was always zoned for hotels. Nothing else about DLForward increased the number of rooms permitted, it was just zoning that changed. So if the area was already zoned for hotels, and they were already permitted to build hotels, they never needed DLForward. So your sarcastic comment aside, it doesn't make sense for Disney to just build hotels and nothing else as they were already zoned to do that, and it appears you don't believe that either.

And regardless, I can assure you they absolutely have a plot earmarked out for at least one new hotel on that land.

On the west side other than maybe adding another DVC tower I have serious doubts of them building another new full hotel. They appear to be wanting to use the Toy Story lot for any new hotel(s).

 

[CosmicDuck]

This was brought up during the workshops with the City Council, as I recall the City wanted assurances that Disney wasn't just going to build a bunch of new DVC, which is where it was confirmed they intend to actually use it for theme park. And it was discussed at great length in the DLForward thread, as we had other posters making the same claims that Disney was just going to build a bunch of hotels and call it a day. You can go through that thread yourself and review the discussion.

Also Disney could have always built new hotels prior to DLForward, and had one slated to be built before it got cancelled due to political issues with the City at the time. So they didn't need the DLForward changes to zoning if all they intended to do was just build hotels and nothing else on the West side, as it was always zoned for hotels. Nothing else about DLForward increased the number of rooms permitted, it was just zoning that changed. So if the area was already zoned for hotels, and they were already permitted to build hotels, they never needed DLForward. So your sarcastic comment aside, it doesn't make sense for Disney to just build hotels and nothing else as they were already zoned to do that, and it appears you don't believe that either.


On the west side other than maybe adding another DVC tower I have serious doubts of them building another new full hotel. They appear to be wanting to use the Toy Story lot for any new hotel(s).

All totally fair points and I agree. Keeping this vague, someone I'm close to works for the city and my understanding of those conversations is none of them were legally binding, but its obviously in Disney's best interest to keep the city in their good graces given everything that went down with the previous hotel and eastern gateway project. Obviously building a bunch of hotels isn't in anyone's best interest regardless. So yeah definitely aligned, I was mostly just making a joke and pointing out they could if they wanted to.

I might be speaking out of school but the last I was told (albeit a while ago and frankly none of what they have earmarked there is permanent - (which is VERY relevant to this thread btw)) they did have a hotel on the west side and one on the toy story lot. No clue if they were or weren't DVC or anything more than that.

 

[Disney Irish]

All totally fair points and I agree. Keeping this vague, someone I'm close to works for the city and my understanding of those conversations is none of them were legally binding, but its obviously in Disney's best interest to keep the city in their good graces given everything that went down with the previous hotel and eastern gateway project. Obviously building a bunch of hotels isn't in anyone's best interest regardless. So yeah definitely aligned, I was mostly just making a joke and pointing out they could if they wanted to.

I might be speaking out of school but the last I was told (albeit a while ago and frankly none of what they have earmarked there is permanent - (which is VERY relevant to this thread btw)) they did have a hotel on the west side and one on the toy story lot. No clue if they were or weren't DVC or anything more than that.

While you're joking overall, I would find it very unlikely Disney would commit on the record in a public forum with the City (even if its not binding) to build attractions and then just go build a bunch of hotels and nothing else. That wouldn't go over very well, and it would likely put Disney into an even worse political cold war than they were when the previous hotel was cancelled due the City stating they didn't qualify for the tax incentive due to a simple project address issue. So no I don't see them putting themselves in that position again, even if they are technically allowed to do so.

 

[MistaDee]

I drew up a rough site plan based on the concept art of how this could fit into the Hollywood Backlot and transportation center. The boat ride building is roughly the same size as Shanghai Pirates. I think whoever the other poster was who mentioned that it looks like they are reusing Stage 12 is correct, so I kept that as the land's restaurant.

I wasn't sure whether they would keep two entrances to the land, one between Philharmagic and Schmoozies, and one next to Hyperion Theater, but if they only keep the entrance by the Hyperion, that gives them a much larger expansion pad for a hypothetical second ride taking over that space + Philharmagic. But that's probably too optimistic, and the second entrance will remain as well.

View attachment 810349View attachment 810350

Here are the same labels on the concept art:
View attachment 810357

This is really incredible work - exactly the kind of thing that makes these forums the best place to break down the future of the parks. Bravo

Lol anyone who thinks DLR is going to tear down any hotels for any reason is living in a fantasy land.

We'll be lucky if the DisneylandForward expansion acreage isn't used MOSTLY for hotels.

except for the fact that it can't be mostly hotels.

I know a chart has been posted a few times on here that showed quite a different story then that. Also remarks that this number was not changing with the DisneyForward project. I think this info was in the DisneyForward thread.

Except your claim is that they would use DLForward for mostly hotels, which is what the other poster was really countering, the numbers themselves don't matter in that context. So even if they have always been permitted to double room capacity, they committed that a majority of the DLForward plan, especially the first 10 years where a minimum of $1.9B will be spent, is for expansion for actual attractions.

Basically I don't anticipate them building out a new hotel until they are ready to build on Toy Story lot.

@Ripken10 point is perfectly cogent to me: legally Disney is absolutely entitled to double the number of hotel rooms on its main property, we can speculate all we want but they can do whatever they want with that space. Disney also publicly committed to Mary Poppins, the imagination pavilion, various World Showcase pavilions like Equatorial Africa, etc. An announcement or public commitment is far from the guarantee a public planning agreement can provide.

I don't think anyone anticipates them using the entirety of DisneylandForward plot for hotel rooms, but the temptation to create a "premium, park-view hotel berm" ensconcing the new theme park space in the DisneylandForward pad in the style of the new Fantasy Springs hotel, or what Universal is doing with Helios Grand at Epic Universe will surely exist in the minds of executives. Surely something like that wouldn't use the full allotment of hotel rooms but I could see some hotel expansion on that land.

How much space that would take away from actual theme park space would depend, if they're able to tastefully incorporate hotel rooms above the attraction showbuildings etc. around the perimeter, and doing so would allow them to be more ambitious with the actual theme park experiences below, I wouldn't be absolutely opposed.

Hotel development on the Toy Story lot wouldn't be able to command the same premium as a hotel inside of/on top of their fancy new DisneylandForward expansions.

 

[Disney Irish]

This is really incredible work - exactly the kind of thing that makes these forums the best place to break down the future of the parks. Bravo








@Ripken10 point is perfectly cogent to me: legally Disney is absolutely entitled to double the number of hotel rooms on its main property, we can speculate all we want but they can do whatever they want with that space. Disney also publicly committed to Mary Poppins, the imagination pavilion, various World Showcase pavilions like Equatorial Africa, etc. An announcement or public commitment is far from the guarantee a public planning agreement can provide.

I don't think anyone anticipates them using the entirety of DisneylandForward plot for hotel rooms, but the temptation to create a "premium, park-view hotel berm" ensconcing the new theme park space in the DisneylandForward pad in the style of the new Fantasy Springs hotel, or what Universal is doing with Helios Grand at Epic Universe will surely exist in the minds of executives. Surely something like that wouldn't use the full allotment of hotel rooms but I could see some hotel expansion on that land.

How much space that would take away from actual theme park space would depend, if they're able to tastefully incorporate hotel rooms above the attraction showbuildings etc. around the perimeter, and doing so would allow them to be more ambitious with the actual theme park experiences below, I wouldn't be absolutely opposed.

Hotel development on the Toy Story lot wouldn't be able to command the same premium as a hotel inside of/on top of their fancy new DisneylandForward expansions.

The point however was Disney didn't need DisneylandForward in order to build a new hotel on the west side, it was already zoned for that. As I pointed out one was already planned and announced for the DTD Parking Lot before things went south with Anaheim politically. But what they couldn't do is to expand DL and DCA into that same location, that is what changed with the DisneylandForward rezoning. This is why the idea of building out a bunch of new hotels (outside of maybe another DVC tower) on the west side instead of more theme park, even if it was said jokingly, is probably not in the cards so that isn't speculation, that is reality. As why go through all of that rezoning just to do something they were already zoned to do. Its why, even though I don't know anything for sure, I would bet they just stick with the 3 hotels they already have on the west and just expand them if they wanted to add more rooms to be the new "premium park-view" rooms.

 

[MisterPenguin]

All of Disneyland Forward will be hotels and themed as "Hotel Land."

 

[Disney Irish]

All of Disneyland Forward will be hotels and themed as "Hotel Land."

E-Ticket will be a slow moving elevator ride, but only accessible via VQ LLMP.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Elevatorland, Disney's unique, timely answer to USH's Escalatorland!*

*requires virtual queue or Lightning Lane Single Pass

 

[CosmicDuck]

The point however was Disney didn't need DisneylandForward in order to build a new hotel on the west side, it was already zoned for that. As I pointed out one was already planned and announced for the DTD Parking Lot before things went south with Anaheim politically. But what they couldn't do is to expand DL and DCA into that same location, that is what changed with the DisneylandForward rezoning. This is why the idea of building out a bunch of new hotels (outside of maybe another DVC tower) on the west side instead of more theme park, even if it was said jokingly, is probably not in the cards so that isn't speculation, that is reality. As why go through all of that rezoning just to do something they were already zoned to do. Its why, even though I don't know anything for sure, I would bet they just stick with the 3 hotels they already have on the west and just expand them if they wanted to add more rooms to be the new "premium park-view" rooms.

You would be very disappointed to find out about the only thing that hasn't changed in the plans for that area so far

 

[Disney Irish]

You would be very disappointed to find out about the only thing that hasn't changed in the plans for that area so far

I don’t get disappointed by any of this stuff, even if things have changed. With that said what are you talking about?

 

[Phroobar]

All of Disneyland Forward will be hotels and themed as "Hotel Land."

Well we did have Vacationland.

 

[mickEblu]

Well we did have Vacationland.

More charming than Avengers Campus

 

[Phroobar]

More charming than Avengers Campus

I have memories of that place in the early 70s. It was fun and far more charming than AC and most of DCA.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

I drew up a rough site plan based on the concept art of how this could fit into the Hollywood Backlot and transportation center. The boat ride building is roughly the same size as Shanghai Pirates. I think whoever the other poster was who mentioned that it looks like they are reusing Stage 12 is correct, so I kept that as the land's restaurant.

I wasn't sure whether they would keep two entrances to the land, one between Philharmagic and Schmoozies, and one next to Hyperion Theater, but if they only keep the entrance by the Hyperion, that gives them a much larger expansion pad for a hypothetical second ride taking over that space + Philharmagic. But that's probably too optimistic, and the second entrance will remain as well.

View attachment 810349View attachment 810350

Here are the same labels on the concept art:
View attachment 810357

Been meaning to comment as others have- this is excellent work, thank you for putting it together!

I firmly believe (if the land is going here) that this is what the layout will be, I'm excited to look at this again when we get an actual layout from Disney. What's interesting is that space wise in the SE corner including the Muppets attraction area... they could include something as big as Smugglers Run if they wanted to. I would argue that the setup for smugglers run is larger than needed so something like a smaller version of the ride would fit in there nicely...

 

[mickEblu]

Been meaning to comment as others have- this is excellent work, thank you for putting it together!

I firmly believe (if the land is going here) that this is what the layout will be, I'm excited to look at this again when we get an actual layout from Disney. What's interesting is that space wise in the SE corner including the Muppets attraction area... they could include something as big as Smugglers Run if they wanted to. I would argue that the setup for smugglers run is larger than needed so something like a smaller version of the ride would fit in there nicely...

Is that purple building the current size of the Philharmagic show building? Didn’t realize it was that big

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

The purple is a bit wide (north to south) and has a bit of the hotdog/store in it, also it includes most of the current western entrance to the backlot. So it's just about right size wise when considering the Muppet footprint and existing backlot entrance area. Just as with the land itself, size with some creativeness, it can work.

I suspect that Philharmagic will survive for a while (with its exit becoming a hall heading directly to Hollywood Blvd... but its long term days... will be numbered.

 

[Disney Irish]

Been meaning to comment as others have- this is excellent work, thank you for putting it together!

I firmly believe (if the land is going here) that this is what the layout will be, I'm excited to look at this again when we get an actual layout from Disney. What's interesting is that space wise in the SE corner including the Muppets attraction area... they could include something as big as Smugglers Run if they wanted to. I would argue that the setup for smugglers run is larger than needed so something like a smaller version of the ride would fit in there nicely...

I agree its nicely done, my only comment would be that I don't think the monorail would take that drastic of a S curve. I think it would be more gradual and come closer to DCAs entrance before connecting back up with the rest of the beam.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

Disney has shown it this way in plans

 

[mickEblu]

The purple is a bit wide (north to south) and has a bit of the hotdog/store in it, also it includes most of the current western entrance to the backlot. So it's just about right size wise when considering the Muppet footprint and existing backlot entrance area. Just as with the land itself, size with some creativeness, it can work.

I suspect that Philharmagic will survive for a while (with its exit becoming a hall heading directly to Hollywood Blvd... but its long term days... will be numbered.

Right sorry I should have been more specific. Isn’t just the outlined red building below the Philharmagic? Everything else in yellow is all the BVS shops and backstage no?

 

[Disney Irish]

Disney has shown it this way in plans

I could be wrong, but as I recall that was all speculation on "our" part at the time. The EGW plans didn't have that sharp S curve.

This was the image being distributed at the time, obviously things have changed a bit since then but it should still be representative of the overall plan -

Notice the faint dotted line just above the sloping path from the bridge across Harbor, I marked it with a red arrow. That is the rerouted monorail, it goes way past the Backlot and if that path continues would connect closer to DTD past the DCA entrance. If it was going to make a sharp S curve it would have to go across the sloping path from the bridge, and I just don't see that happening.