danlb_2000
Premium Member
Because the way they are doing it is probably cheaper, which is all the management cares about.
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Automated monorail system update
- Thread starter BwanaBob
- Start date
Because the way they are doing it is probably cheaper, which is all the management cares about.
Timon
Well-Known Member
True. Too bad they don't look down the road and realize how much more money they will have to spend because they didn't solve the problem correctly today. So they will have 2014 automation in 1989 trains. These people should be sent to Universal to "help(?)" the competition.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The electronics and controls have been updated since 1989. The INNOVIA 200s really do not differ in any remarkable ways from the Mark VIs. Refreshed interiors and better overall maintenance also are not a big factor in automation.
Timon
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying it won't work. It's just seems foolish to spend millions for automation on dirty trains with a Zillion miles on them. They should do a badly needed overhaul of interior, exterior, and electrical/mechanical components with Bombardier automation so the trains are good for another 20 years.
How are these trains going to look in five years?
How are these trains going to look in five years?
Bacalou
Member
That's very good information! Certainly makes me more confident with the possibility of the AK expansion.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
There is no real possibility of expansion at the present or for the immediate future.That's very good information! Certainly makes me more confident with the possibility of the AK expansion.
Bacalou
Member
That's true, 2018 is still quite a ways off.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
For what?
Next Big Thing
Well-Known Member
I assume he was speaking of the DAK expansion (as it was mentioned in the post you quoted).
GhettoJetta5
Member
Like you, the first thing I wondered as soon as I heard Thales was "Why not CityFlo?" In doing some research, I found it interesting that Thales group did the automation for the Las Vegas monorail, another Bombardier Monorail extremely similar to the Mark VI (Innovia 200). Could this be why Disney went with Thales Group? The Innovia 300 going into Brazil are using Bombardier's CityFlo system, I am curious why the Las Vegas system did not. Possibly Las Vegas Monorail management purchased manual driven trains and upgraded them using Thales? Would be an odd choice, but not an impossible one.
Here is my source:
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/content/seltracr-cbtc-communications-based-train-control-urban-rail
The site lists the Las Vegas Monorail on their site. Oddly the site lists Walt Disney World Monorail (1989), using ATP which is defined as " Speed and Signal Safeguard: it vitally supervises speed profiles and signal adherence and provides all the functions of an intermittent Automatic Train Protection" by Wikipedia (I know, not a great source). From what I get out of Wikipedia and the Thales group website, this is primarily speed control. Does MAPO control speed or just Train spacing? Could the trains be currently equipped with Thales Speed control and use MAPO simply for train spacing? I am off on a tangent lol... Sorry for rambling. I am curious though, does anyone know if MAPO is just train spacing (Moving Blocklight System), or does it control the train speed as well?
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WeekendGM
Active Member
Mapo controls spacing while the trains have a VOBC (vehicle on board computer) that monitors the speed of the train and speed zones. Currently mapo and VOBC only really connect in the fact that if the train gets a red mapo the emergency stop activates. The VOBC takes commands from the drivers through the MCU (master control unit) and monitors the speed and if the driver does not respond to the train it will apply full braking (not an emergency stop) for an overspeed. The VOBC doesn't care if you have an amber mapo (hold at next hold point) and will happily plow onward to the red mapo ( train is where it shouldn't be.) It currently is all up to the driver on how to brake for the next hold point if they have an amber. If you have a question or want some more details just ask.
To see that Disney still hasn't expanded the monorails to DAK?
Timon
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info. It's always great to get these bits of the puzzle solved.
I did noticed the list you mentioned had also had a bunch of Bombardier APM systems
AirTrain JFK.
Detroit DPM
Jacksonville ASE
Las Vegas Monorail.
Newark Int’l Airport APM
Tampa Int’l Airport APM
Washington Dulles Int’l Airport APM
This got me thinking what was the history of APM's in Bombardier ...
Adtranz started building APM's in 1971 which might explain how Thales automation was in use for these vehicles since Bombardier bought Adtranz in 2001. So logically any Bombardier product line that started building building prior to 2001 might be ready for Thales vs CityFlo. Mark VI monorail 1989, controls updated (?), Las Vegas Monorail MKVI (INNOVIA200) 2004 was an updated version of Disney's Mark VI Now if I could pin down when CityFlow was developed that might help.
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adtranz
.
Timon
Well-Known Member
Also this really helps explain automated train control.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications-based_train_control
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications-based_train_control
I know this thread goes through active periods and not so while it's kind of active again I have something I'd like to ask: I saw back in November, I think it was here, an actual pic showing the ground dug up next to the monorail lines. I'm looking for that pic and can't find it. Could someone link me to it or point me in the right direction please? My reason for needing that pic is important and with all this discussion going in I want to tell my own personal monorail "story" so to speak.
The reason I'm trying to find that picture is because I'd like to show it to my Mom. She doesn't believe they're really going through with this automation project. Like so many on this forum, one of my major dreams since I was a kid has been to be a monorail pilot at WDW. I thought that maybe as I went into my teens and into my adult years maybe I'd change my mind and decide I didn't want to do that anymore. I just turned 35 at the end of December and I still want to do this more than ever. I have tried twice since turning 18 to actually pursue this dream, and looked into the move to Florida from Chicago. Initially, I wanted to do it right after high school..thought I'd go to UCF for college and try to get in at Disney. I got the UCF info but my parents plus a local principal who was a family friend were strongly steering me towards a commuter college. It's like ok I'll try this school, to make everyone happy. That first winter I was very unhappy with the school I picked and finally got the guts to say I wanted to go to UCF instead. Mom said look into what it will actually cost and we'll talk. I did and it was too expensive to move at that point. Thought maybe after I finish at this school. After graduation I tried again to look at the logistics and it was still too expensive. So, over these last 17 years I have worked..honestly really miserable retail jobs. One of them I did very well at, the other several have been passable I guess. All that time, I knew my heart had already left here long ago, I've never really been happy up here.
Over the years, I have gotten some monorail tshirts, I have mp3s most of the past spiels including the Disneyland and Tokyo Disney ones, the actual pilot wings they give to actual pilots, and I have two editions of the training manuals. I have studied them front to back, and have paid very close attention to how the job is done over the years. I have begun to memorize hold points as well.
This past October, when I was down there, I got a very early, unexpected test of what I really know and after that night, I'm more dead set on this job than ever. One night during my stay, the monorail I was on stopped at the Contemp, and one of the guys working the station came to the car I was in wanting people to move so they could put wheelchairs in. He was VERY unhappy with his job, and everyone just sat there refusing to move so I did. I asked him where he wanted me to go and he said car 3 and I nodded and held up 3 fingers, he nodded back. I get up towards the front and what I'm going to say next I kid you not and I can't make this up. The pilot of this monorail was also very unhappy with his job. He was literally losing it on the spot so he waves me over and he's like I gotta step away from this for 5 minutes, I can't take this job anymore..I'm thinking well here's a major chance to prove myself so I told him you go downstairs for a few and I'll help with the load up. He says daaaamn, how much do you know about the job? I told him enough to where I can do it right now. This guy was shaking and said ok you're on, help the other guy out. So, over the next 5 minutes I helped load the huge amount of people waiting in..having to quickly decide where people needed to go and of course the damn wheelchairs. Some guests said to the other worker really? He's not even an employee! The guy told them do what he tells you, he's doing the job the way we should be. The pilot gets back, and I gave him a thumbs up..he walks over to me, and so does the other worker and they were speechless. They both said they were beyond impressed and to please take the job off their hands! They said I belonged there and not them. Their manager is next to us at this point and said he did outstanding, I saw the whole thing. You both are in huge trouble. Maybe I should be paying him instead, he looks like he wants to be here! She told me think about going to casting tomorrow and applying! I said if Disney pays to move me from Chicago, I'll make the move. This was surreal. I proved myself under pressure and that night showed me thats where I need to be. I felt like I'd made more of a difference that night than I have in the last 17 years.
I am very heavily leaning toward applying to Disney and UCF finally, and if I get in I'm done with Chicago. I want to take my shirts, my pin, and my training manuals to this interview and show them I belong there more than anyone they could choose. I'm going to tell them what happened that October night, so they can see why they need me. I want them to see I'm heart set on this. I'm willing to stay through to the end of this project and past that if needed. If I'm going to do this it needs to be this year, because my time is running out thanks to this project. I need that pic to show my family why doing it now is so important so anyone that can get me that pic will have my thanks!
The reason I'm trying to find that picture is because I'd like to show it to my Mom. She doesn't believe they're really going through with this automation project. Like so many on this forum, one of my major dreams since I was a kid has been to be a monorail pilot at WDW. I thought that maybe as I went into my teens and into my adult years maybe I'd change my mind and decide I didn't want to do that anymore. I just turned 35 at the end of December and I still want to do this more than ever. I have tried twice since turning 18 to actually pursue this dream, and looked into the move to Florida from Chicago. Initially, I wanted to do it right after high school..thought I'd go to UCF for college and try to get in at Disney. I got the UCF info but my parents plus a local principal who was a family friend were strongly steering me towards a commuter college. It's like ok I'll try this school, to make everyone happy. That first winter I was very unhappy with the school I picked and finally got the guts to say I wanted to go to UCF instead. Mom said look into what it will actually cost and we'll talk. I did and it was too expensive to move at that point. Thought maybe after I finish at this school. After graduation I tried again to look at the logistics and it was still too expensive. So, over these last 17 years I have worked..honestly really miserable retail jobs. One of them I did very well at, the other several have been passable I guess. All that time, I knew my heart had already left here long ago, I've never really been happy up here.
Over the years, I have gotten some monorail tshirts, I have mp3s most of the past spiels including the Disneyland and Tokyo Disney ones, the actual pilot wings they give to actual pilots, and I have two editions of the training manuals. I have studied them front to back, and have paid very close attention to how the job is done over the years. I have begun to memorize hold points as well.
This past October, when I was down there, I got a very early, unexpected test of what I really know and after that night, I'm more dead set on this job than ever. One night during my stay, the monorail I was on stopped at the Contemp, and one of the guys working the station came to the car I was in wanting people to move so they could put wheelchairs in. He was VERY unhappy with his job, and everyone just sat there refusing to move so I did. I asked him where he wanted me to go and he said car 3 and I nodded and held up 3 fingers, he nodded back. I get up towards the front and what I'm going to say next I kid you not and I can't make this up. The pilot of this monorail was also very unhappy with his job. He was literally losing it on the spot so he waves me over and he's like I gotta step away from this for 5 minutes, I can't take this job anymore..I'm thinking well here's a major chance to prove myself so I told him you go downstairs for a few and I'll help with the load up. He says daaaamn, how much do you know about the job? I told him enough to where I can do it right now. This guy was shaking and said ok you're on, help the other guy out. So, over the next 5 minutes I helped load the huge amount of people waiting in..having to quickly decide where people needed to go and of course the damn wheelchairs. Some guests said to the other worker really? He's not even an employee! The guy told them do what he tells you, he's doing the job the way we should be. The pilot gets back, and I gave him a thumbs up..he walks over to me, and so does the other worker and they were speechless. They both said they were beyond impressed and to please take the job off their hands! They said I belonged there and not them. Their manager is next to us at this point and said he did outstanding, I saw the whole thing. You both are in huge trouble. Maybe I should be paying him instead, he looks like he wants to be here! She told me think about going to casting tomorrow and applying! I said if Disney pays to move me from Chicago, I'll make the move. This was surreal. I proved myself under pressure and that night showed me thats where I need to be. I felt like I'd made more of a difference that night than I have in the last 17 years.
I am very heavily leaning toward applying to Disney and UCF finally, and if I get in I'm done with Chicago. I want to take my shirts, my pin, and my training manuals to this interview and show them I belong there more than anyone they could choose. I'm going to tell them what happened that October night, so they can see why they need me. I want them to see I'm heart set on this. I'm willing to stay through to the end of this project and past that if needed. If I'm going to do this it needs to be this year, because my time is running out thanks to this project. I need that pic to show my family why doing it now is so important so anyone that can get me that pic will have my thanks!
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Bacalou
Member
That's quite a story. The photos you are looking for are on page 5 of this thread. Proof of the project is posted in my own post history, which isn't very large since I'm a new poster. BTW, they'll retain people stationed in monorails but they won't be actively driving the trains.
Timon
Well-Known Member
bh7812 - Classic story. 1st - Disney will not hire anyone without a local address. 2nd - They will not pay for relocation costs unless you have a talent they want and can not find locally. Unfortunately they often just look for bodies not enthusiasm.
Keep in mind a Monorail Pilot may be a different pay rate than the new Monorail Attendants. I'm sure Disney looks at the labor costs and will seize any labor savings they can when the automation is in full operation.
Sorry to rain on your dream but I would learn all about Watercraft if I were you.
BACK DOOR - It sounds like your "job experience" is in merchandise and would be much easier to get into a Disney. Work there for 6 months and then transfer to Monorails as a active employee. Using the 6 months to talk to pilots and supervisors in your spare time, it helps on internal transfers to have them know you and you will find out about jobs before they are posted. Do not tell, anyone in your current department you wish to be somewhere else or you might miss out on promotions if things take longer than expected.
Good luck
Keep in mind a Monorail Pilot may be a different pay rate than the new Monorail Attendants. I'm sure Disney looks at the labor costs and will seize any labor savings they can when the automation is in full operation.
Sorry to rain on your dream but I would learn all about Watercraft if I were you.
BACK DOOR - It sounds like your "job experience" is in merchandise and would be much easier to get into a Disney. Work there for 6 months and then transfer to Monorails as a active employee. Using the 6 months to talk to pilots and supervisors in your spare time, it helps on internal transfers to have them know you and you will find out about jobs before they are posted. Do not tell, anyone in your current department you wish to be somewhere else or you might miss out on promotions if things take longer than expected.
Good luck
Oh man, seriously!? Going by that I may already be too late
I'll see what I can do..I wouldn't be against Anaheim but that one I'd have to think about a lot more for a few reasons. But thanks for the reply