Aunt Polly's is open?

[prberk]

Precisely, I've been visiting the parks for 3 decades and I can remember when the Diamond Horseshoe was open and had a SHOW and it finally closed in 2003 to become a seasonal eatery. Can't blame that closure on Iger, That one was all on MDE's 'Strategic Planning' group.

Apparently some commenters like to attack the messenger because they don't like the message. Under Iger's tenure P&R margins have been on the order of 12%, Under MDE margins averaged approximately 23% and even MDE's 10 worst years P&R margins were on the order of 15%, Iger's team just managed to get 17% LAST YEAR and that was only achieved by slashing Domestic P&R CAPEX to 7.4% expressed as percentage of revenue, Under MDE CAPEX was 20-26%

Back to the point at hand, DIsney is creating FRICTION or sales resistance with its long waits at meal venues, In the online commerce world you now see order as a 'guest' because companies found people making a one time purchase would 'abandon' their online carts because of the extra effort involved in creating an account.

Bottom line if you make it hard for people to give you money many of them will not. If I'm in NYC and want a hot dog and the cart has too much of a line, Across the street is another cart and you will probably go there for your dog,

WDW labors under the assumption that their customers are a 'captive' audience and will jump through any hoops WDW sets up for them, Since WDW broke my abiility to create FP+ reservations back in August of 2013, I'm not captive to FP+ times so all attractions are standby for me,

So frequently if I'm at the MK and it's busy and I want to eat It's faster to leave the park walk to the contemporary and grab a meal at Contempo Cafe where I can relax and SIT DOWN and eat. Rather than stand 20-30 minutes at Casey's (a favorite of mine) and attempt to find someplace to lean aganst and eat a hotdog and attempt not to spill drink on myself or others.

WDW wants impulse buying but they have forgotten how to facilitate it, They assume only X hotdogs will be sold and try to come up with the cheapest way to sell X hotdogs, Yet they forget the lesson at any sports or concert venue - ever see a food venue closed during a ball game (7'th inning or last quarter excepted)

You ALWAYS want to be ready to take the customers money, Not to give them a excuse to hang onto it...

Except in your analogy, Disney also owns the hot dog cart across the street.


This is kind of my point. Even if you're not a "captive audience" within the Magic Kingdom (as most guests are), you're a captive audience within Walt Disney World. The percentage of guests who would actually leave property to get lunch because the waits at any of the QSRs are too long is paper thin.

Explorer, you know I agree with your premise of the need to open more of the shuttered restaurants (like Aunt Polly's), but I think you chose the wrong analogies on this post, as CaptainAmerica points out. In this case it would be cannibalism -- since Disney owns the "hot dog across the street" AND the hotel down the street. This is also what @jakeman was calling cannibalism and not increased business.
But I actually think the bigger loss is the loss of the business who either skip a meal altogether due to the lines, or who don't really need a meal or snack rigth now but are attracted by the smells/signs/air conditioning of the restaurant and would buy something if the lines were reasonable (the impulse buy). And yes, food and snacks can definitely be impulse buys (like the candy bars stationed at grocery store checkout!).

I think that is the bigger point that i wanted Jakeman to see (and which he has addressed somewhat already since then).

 

[UofMGuy423]

Maybe the next step will be selling cold drinks in Fort Sam Clemens/Langhorn again. I accidentally stumbled into the old snack joint in the Fort on our last trip (the door was unlocked) and it could easily be reopened to sell cold drinks.

 

[jakeman]

I typically try and park at the All Star resorts and take a bus. I like to try and make my enjoyment of the magical bubble that is the clean, shimmering, well-themed Disney Bus Lines last as long as I can.

Only if the bus isn't wrapped though right?

Explorer, you know I agree with your premise of the need to open more of the shuttered restaurants (like Aunt Polly's), but I think you chose the wrong analogies on this post, as CaptainAmerica points out. In this case it would be cannibalism -- since Disney owns the "hot dog across the street" AND the hotel down the street. This is also what @jakeman was calling cannibalism and not increased business.
But I actually think the bigger loss is the loss of the business who either skip a meal altogether due to the lines, or who don't really need a meal or snack rigth now but are attracted by the smells/signs/air conditioning of the restaurant and would buy something if the lines were reasonable (the impulse buy). And yes, food and snacks can definitely be impulse buys (like the candy bars stationed at grocery store checkout!).

I think that is the bigger point that i wanted Jakeman to see (and which he has addressed somewhat already since then).

I have no issue with the general premise that WDW in general and MK in particular should not have shuttered restaurants. My uneducated opinion is there is enough demand at peak times to fill all the shuttered restaurants.

My issue with @ford91exploder is erroneously trying to tie all of this into some nebulous Iger/CAPEX/margins issue when you can look at the problem and simply say, "This has sucked for about 20 years and they should fix it." It's bad customer service for guest to have to wait 30 minutes to order a burger at peak lunch time. That's really the bottom line. No fabrication of facts or CAPEX hyperbole is needed.

 

[ford91exploder]

Explorer, you know I agree with your premise of the need to open more of the shuttered restaurants (like Aunt Polly's), but I think you chose the wrong analogies on this post, as CaptainAmerica points out. In this case it would be cannibalism -- since Disney owns the "hot dog across the street" AND the hotel down the street. This is also what @jakeman was calling cannibalism and not increased business.
But I actually think the bigger loss is the loss of the business who either skip a meal altogether due to the lines, or who don't really need a meal or snack rigth now but are attracted by the smells/signs/air conditioning of the restaurant and would buy something if the lines were reasonable (the impulse buy). And yes, food and snacks can definitely be impulse buys (like the candy bars stationed at grocery store checkout!).

I think that is the bigger point that i wanted Jakeman to see (and which he has addressed somewhat already since then).

Fair point

Yes Disney does own the all the food venues, But WDW assumption is that you are going to buy a QS meal regardless of the wait time so they can close restaurants and 'save' on staffing, They completely forget the impulse buy for food and beverage and that's lost revenue they will never capture.

I fall solidly into the second camp, We are DVC usually rent a 1BR or larger and have food on hand and during busy times it's frequently faster to exit the MK and get food at the resort either from the room or the onsite QS and once again WDW recaptures SOME of the revenue but at that time my day at the MK is probably over so they have no more revenue opportunities from my party the remainder of the day.

This problem is unique to the MK as all the other parks have multiple QS options with short (5-10) minute lines and adequate seating even during busy times.

 

[ford91exploder]

This is an issue of the 'cost cutting' mentality running rampant at P&R, It got started after the 9/11 attacks where business was vastly reduced at WDW and it was NECESSARY to cut back.

Unfortunately TWDC after that forgot that the P&R business was built on exceptional service and attention to detail and went on a rampage of cost cuts which continue to this day.

Back when EPCOT opened a lot attendant CM was paid $11/hr a food service worker was paid $14/hr yet the federal minimum wage was $3.35/hr many of the CM's were full time with benefits and WDW's margins exceeded those of today where the CM's are paid barely more than minimum wage and live in Igervilles.

The relative financial performance of the company tells all that one needs to know about the skills of the management teams. One actively grew the business, One is milking the business leaving a dry husk for the next generation.

 

[jakeman]

This is an issue of the 'cost cutting' mentality running rampant at P&R, It got started after the 9/11 attacks where business was vastly reduced at WDW and it was NECESSARY to cut back.

Unfortunately TWDC after that forgot that the P&R business was built on exceptional service and attention to detail and went on a rampage of cost cuts which continue to this day.

Back when EPCOT opened a lot attendant CM was paid $11/hr a food service worker was paid $14/hr yet the federal minimum wage was $3.35/hr many of the CM's were full time with benefits and WDW's margins exceeded those of today where the CM's are paid barely more than minimum wage and live in Igervilles.

The relative financial performance of the company tells all that one needs to know about the skills of the management teams. One actively grew the business, One is milking the business leaving a dry husk for the next generation.

Except...it didn't.

There are examples of shuttered restaurants well before 9/11. I've given you two here.

Again, just say that this has been a problem at WDW for a while and quit trying to tie it to some grand overarching downfall.

 

[Lucky]

I don't wait in long QS lines, but I see much worse at both BG parks than at WDW. I'd rather stop at a food cart or McD's drive through on the way back to the hotel than blow a half hour of park time standing in line for QS.

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

Even if "open" means a single cast member selling nothing but lemonade. Or a glorified popcorn cart.

Yes!! Any kind of open is better than a closed.

 

[doctornick]

My issue with @ford91exploder is erroneously trying to tie all of this into some nebulous Iger/CAPEX/margins issue when you can look at the problem and simply say, "This has sucked for about 20 years and they should fix it." It's bad customer service for guest to have to wait 30 minutes to order a burger at peak lunch time. That's really the bottom line. No fabrication of facts or CAPEX hyperbole is needed.

Right, the bigger issue is a guest satisfaction one. More open QS options = both shorter lines and convenience. That would tend to result in more positive experiences in the parks for guests. And every little positive element pushes people towards wanting to return (or going more frequently) and/or recommending a friend go.

I don't think that there is a lot of revenue increase by having the additional sites open. Sure, some extra impulse buys here and there and some people who will get something rather than leave the park, but those are likely a drop in the bucket compared to overall sales IMHO. But when MK is busy, it needs those extra dining options. A lot. And, well, it's busy most of the time these days.

I don't know what the ideal combo is, but I think the park would benefit from having a few of the seasonal places be open pretty much all of the time as well as having some of the other places that do operate seasonally to be open more often than they are.

 

[The Duck]

I don't wait in long QS lines, but I see much worse at both BG parks than at WDW. I'd rather stop at a food cart or McD's drive through on the way back to the hotel than blow a half hour of park time standing in line for QS.

During my last MK visit, the lines were so long while waiting for the fireworks that we opted to starve a bit until we could get to a McDonald's on the way back to the time share.

 

[Chicagoshannon2]

I believe the point was regarding guests already planning to leave the park. Why not grab something on the way home/back at their offsite hotel, therefore saving 30 minutes in their busy day. Not leaving for the sole purpose of lunch.

I would imagine it is a double whammy though - Long lines + high cost = outside food.

Yes it's a combination of long lines, high cost, and decreased choices. When I was a kid, back in the 80's, we could get a real peanut butter and jelly sandwich or another kind of sandwich on real bread. If you didn't like jelly they could make you just peanut butter, or you could get cheese or whatever. Now all they have are uncrustables or that gross fish shaped "bread". My kids won't eat most of the kid menu items and there's nothing like waiting in line for 45 minutes at Pecos Bill to get some in your party burgers and then having to run over to Columbia Harbor House for Mac n cheese and wait another 25 minutes. If the lines were shorter it wouldn't be that big of a deal. So we either bring in our food or wait until we leave the park.

 

[prberk]

Yes it's a combination of long lines, high cost, and decreased choices. When I was a kid, back in the 80's, we could get a real peanut butter and jelly sandwich or another kind of sandwich on real bread. If you didn't like jelly they could make you just peanut butter, or you could get cheese or whatever. Now all they have are uncrustables or that gross fish shaped "bread". My kids won't eat most of the kid menu items and there's nothing like waiting in line for 45 minutes at Pecos Bill to get some in your party burgers and then having to run over to Columbia Harbor House for Mac n cheese and wait another 25 minutes. If the lines were shorter it wouldn't be that big of a deal. So we either bring in our food or wait until we leave the park.

The fact is Disney used to be renowned for exceptional service. A peanut butter sandwich, or even a cheese sandwich, should be easy to make at any restaurant, especially one featuring PB&J sandwiches or ham and cheese sandwiches. I used to boast to friends who only knew Disney for TV (fireworks over a fairytale castle) that it really was a fantastic resort with full-service adult things to do and great food. Now, I just don't say anything.

Around 15 years ago we took my mother and the extended family for her birthday. She was newly diabetic. We had a dinner planned at the Liberty Tree. I stopped by a day ahead (or two) and asked if they could make a sugar-free cake for her birthday. They said "yes," and ultimately served our 13-member party a full-size sheetcake that was specially made just for us, sugar-free. AT NO CHARGE. I guess they considered the dinner itself the charge.

Today, I still think they might make it, but I have my doubts. It is not on the menu, and having all those people stay around for a free dessert might upset the MM+ planning of table turnover.

A restaurant critic I read once said this about how they choose between a good restaurant and a great one, at any level, and it has stuck with me. They said that, after visiting a few times and ordering from the menu, they will do this: They will show up and put the menu down and ask for something not on the menu but for which the restaurant should have the ingredients. Often it would be a fried egg sandwich. It will usually go something like this, if they are losing points:

Critic: "Do you have bread in the kitchen?"
Staff: "Yes."
Critic: "Do you have an egg in the kitchen?"
Staff: "Yes."
Critic: "Do you have a grill in the kitchen?"
Staff: "Yes."
Critic: "Then I would like a fried egg sandwich."
​

A good service restaurant would likely never let the conversation get that far, and would just make it happen. I am not talking about anything unreasonable (like things that would take forever to prepare or for which they would not normally have the ingredients readily available). I am talking about good service, customer care. For a top-tier resort such as Walt Disney World advertises itself to be, this should be the norm.

And I think having multiple good (and unshuttered) food options should be the norm for the world's most popular theme park and resort -- defined by good service. Long lines when other places are closed is not good service, much less great.

At least opening Aunt Polly's is a good step. Bringing handmade PB&J sandwiches (and cheese sandwiches) would be even better.

 

[Jon81uk]

But I actually think the bigger loss is the loss of the business who either skip a meal altogether due to the lines, or who don't really need a meal or snack rigth now but are attracted by the smells/signs/air conditioning of the restaurant and would buy something if the lines were reasonable (the impulse buy). And yes, food and snacks can definitely be impulse buys (like the candy bars stationed at grocery store checkout!).
.

But most of the impulse buys are from carts or smaller outlets (Sleepy Hollow, Mrs Potts, Main St Ice Cream, Aunt Pollys etc). If I am having lunch and want aircon, I have decided to eat at Be Our Guest or Cosmic Rays or Pecos Bills and that decision is largly made even if the line is a little long as I can't be bother to schlep across the park to the other one.
But if it is 3pm and I want a snack or an ice cream then that is an impulse buy from the nearest venue generally. This is why there are so many Mickey bar carts or popcorn carts, no-one will wait for those items. But lunch in an aircon counter service place, I will wait for 10-15 minutes at busy times.

Eating offsite is an option if you are staying off-site but if you watch Wishes it is unlikely you can wait for 11pm for dinner! Although we did it at DisneyLAND as the off-site hotels are a short walk away, past a McDonalds and it was easier and cheaper to eat McDs after World of Colour than to get dinner in the park. We had lunch in the park though (Boudin bakery bread filled with salad )

 

[Jon81uk]

The fact is Disney used to be renowned for exceptional service. A peanut butter sandwich, or even a cheese sandwich, should be easy to make at any restaurant, especially one featuring PB&J sandwiches or ham and cheese sandwiches. I used to boast to friends who only knew Disney for TV (fireworks over a fairytale castle) that it really was a fantastic resort with full-service adult things to do and great food. Now, I just don't say anything.

Around 15 years ago we took my mother and the extended family for her birthday. She was newly diabetic. We had a dinner planned at the Liberty Tree. I stopped by a day ahead (or two) and asked if they could make a sugar-free cake for her birthday. They said "yes," and ultimately served our 13-member party a full-size sheetcake that was specially made just for us, sugar-free. AT NO CHARGE. I guess they considered the dinner itself the charge.

Today, I still think they might make it, but I have my doubts. It is not on the menu, and having all those people stay around for a free dessert might upset the MM+ planning of table turnover.

A restaurant critic I read once said this about how they choose between a good restaurant and a great one, at any level, and it has stuck with me. They said that, after visiting a few times and ordering from the menu, they will do this: They will show up and put the menu down and ask for something not on the menu but for which the restaurant should have the ingredients. Often it would be a fried egg sandwich. It will usually go something like this, if they are losing points:

Critic: "Do you have bread in the kitchen?"
Staff: "Yes."
Critic: "Do you have an egg in the kitchen?"
Staff: "Yes."
Critic: "Do you have a grill in the kitchen?"
Staff: "Yes."
Critic: "Then I would like a fried egg sandwich."
​

A good service restaurant would likely never let the conversation get that far, and would just make it happen. I am not talking about anything unreasonable (like things that would take forever to prepare or for which they would not normally have the ingredients readily available). I am talking about good service, customer care. For a top-tier resort such as Walt Disney World advertises itself to be, this should be the norm.

And I think having multiple good (and unshuttered) food options should be the norm for the world's most popular theme park and resort -- defined by good service. Long lines when other places are closed is not good service, much less great.

At least opening Aunt Polly's is a good step. Bringing handmade PB&J sandwiches (and cheese sandwiches) would be even better.

I disagree.
A good middle of the road restaurant, yes should be able to do that, for example a normal city hotel restaurant, as many business travellers could be in the same hotel for several nights and I would expect that type of service to keep things fresh.
But a signature restaurant, no. Why bother going to the Cali Grill for a fried egg. If there isn't what you want on the menu, either don't pick that place, or ask for a "chef special" tell them what you can eat and get something. As far as I've heard Disney is world leading in making allergy friendly items so they can make special orders, but you also need to trust the chef to do something with the ingredients you specify are safe for you.

In terms of your cake order, you would still get that I imagine, but at a charge for a celebration cake.

 

[Communicore]

The fact is Disney used to be renowned for exceptional service. A peanut butter sandwich, or even a cheese sandwich, should be easy to make at any restaurant, especially one featuring PB&J sandwiches or ham and cheese sandwiches. I used to boast to friends who only knew Disney for TV (fireworks over a fairytale castle) that it really was a fantastic resort with full-service adult things to do and great food. Now, I just don't say anything.

Around 15 years ago we took my mother and the extended family for her birthday. She was newly diabetic. We had a dinner planned at the Liberty Tree. I stopped by a day ahead (or two) and asked if they could make a sugar-free cake for her birthday. They said "yes," and ultimately served our 13-member party a full-size sheetcake that was specially made just for us, sugar-free. AT NO CHARGE. I guess they considered the dinner itself the charge.

Today, I still think they might make it, but I have my doubts. It is not on the menu, and having all those people stay around for a free dessert might upset the MM+ planning of table turnover.

A restaurant critic I read once said this about how they choose between a good restaurant and a great one, at any level, and it has stuck with me. They said that, after visiting a few times and ordering from the menu, they will do this: They will show up and put the menu down and ask for something not on the menu but for which the restaurant should have the ingredients. Often it would be a fried egg sandwich. It will usually go something like this, if they are losing points:

Critic: "Do you have bread in the kitchen?"
Staff: "Yes."
Critic: "Do you have an egg in the kitchen?"
Staff: "Yes."
Critic: "Do you have a grill in the kitchen?"
Staff: "Yes."
Critic: "Then I would like a fried egg sandwich."
​

A good service restaurant would likely never let the conversation get that far, and would just make it happen. I am not talking about anything unreasonable (like things that would take forever to prepare or for which they would not normally have the ingredients readily available). I am talking about good service, customer care. For a top-tier resort such as Walt Disney World advertises itself to be, this should be the norm.

And I think having multiple good (and unshuttered) food options should be the norm for the world's most popular theme park and resort -- defined by good service. Long lines when other places are closed is not good service, much less great.

At least opening Aunt Polly's is a good step. Bringing handmade PB&J sandwiches (and cheese sandwiches) would be even better.

Yea, I agree. Back when I was a CM I was able to make PBJ on demand, cheese sandwiches on demand, and stack sandwiches without certain ingredients on demand. I mean once someone ordered a stack sandwich with no bread.

 

[Communicore]

I agree! Last trip we purposely went to the Magic Kingdom on a specific day just because Tortuga Tavern was supposed to be open that day. Big shock it wasn't. Not a huge deal as I don't expect the food would be great or anything but it's a place that we have never been able to try because it's never been open when we have been in the Magic Kingdom.

I would be extremely irate too, especially if I planned on eating there. They have the most amazing taco salad bar, unlike Pecos, Tortuga has sour cream packets and picante sauces!

 

[DC0703]

I agree with your point that during peak meal times especially at MK the wait times are, in my opinion, unacceptable and could be alleviated by more dining options, several of which have been shuttered for a generation. We don't eat at peak times in MK because of the lines and go often enough that we would appreciate the variety that additional establishments would offer.

I've never really quite understood why MK shutters so many of their restaurants most of the year. Is it that despite demand for food in the park, they still under-perform? Considering the huge number of restaurants at Epcot, I would think MK could handle quite a few more, given that it's the most populated theme park in the world.

Personally, I'd love to see at least one sit down restaurant in each 'land.' With the upcoming kitchen expansion in the Adventureland/Liberty area, has there been any mention of Diamond Horseshoe being open on a regular basis?

 

[Jon81uk]

I've never really quite understood why MK shutters so many of their restaurants most of the year. Is it that despite demand for food in the park, they still under-perform? Considering the huge number of restaurants at Epcot, I would think MK could handle quite a few more, given that it's the most populated theme park in the world.

People will eat Quick Service lunch in MK no matter what. So why bother staffing Tortuga when having just Pecos open will do.

Epcot doesn't have as many attractions, the table service restaurants are part of the experience, close them and there is nothing left in some parts of World Showcase.

 

[betty rose]

I would be extremely irate too, especially if I planned on eating there. They have the most amazing taco salad bar, unlike Pecos, Tortuga has sour cream packets and picante sauces!

Yummy!

 

[msteel]

There's no ban on outside food.

I believe I mentioned that it was at Disneyland. There is still an official ban on outside food there:
https://disneyland.disney.go.com/faq/dining/outside-food-in-park/
How strictly it is enforced now, or was at the time, I cannot say.

I am aware that there is currently no ban on outside food at WDW. I do not know if this has always been the case.