Aunt Polly's is open?

[Dwarful]

Here's what I'd suggest...and if they did this, I think they'd attract more. Part of the issue is that Polly's is hard to get to...so, I see why they close it.

BUT...I think it would be great if they served unique southern foods there.

For example:

Finger Sandwiches (cucumber, chicken salad, etc)
Sun Tea (fresh brewed, not Nestea)
Fresh Squeezed Lemonade (with flavour options such as fresh raspberries crushed into it, etc)

Stuff you'd find in a southern "Tea Time"...I think it could work well and make it unique enough for someone to visit on a hot Summer day and watch the Mark Twain paddle along.

Sodas and hot dogs...yeah...that ain't gonna cut it.

add Snickerdoodles and I know my family would make the trip just for a different type of light summer lunch.

 

[englanddg]

add Snickerdoodles and I know my family would make the trip just for a different type of light summer lunch.

And Homemade Moon Pies!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And the PROFIT from selling food far exceeds the 'savings' from keeping dining locations closed...

Not quite. A guest who is going to eat lunch is going to eat lunch regardless of WHERE he eats lunch. A hot dog sold at Aunt Polly's is a hot dog NOT sold at Pecos Bill's or wherever (exceptions for unique offerings like Flame Tree or LeFou's Brew where it's a bit more incremental). I think the cannibalization rate for QS F&B is something like 75%. So it's a guest service / convenience play rather than someone all of a sudden figuring out the dollars and cents. That said, it's absolutely the right call to have the place up and running. Or remove it entirely, but the abandoned look is poor show.

 

[englanddg]

Not quite. A guest who is going to eat lunch is going to eat lunch regardless of WHERE he eats lunch. A hot dog sold at Aunt Polly's is a hot dog NOT sold at Pecos Bill's or wherever (exceptions for unique offerings like Flame Tree or LeFou's Brew where it's a bit more incremental). I think the cannibalization rate for QS F&B is something like 75%. So it's a guest service / convenience play rather than someone all of a sudden figuring out the dollars and cents. That said, it's absolutely the right call to have the place up and running. Or remove it entirely, but the abandoned look is poor show.

Agreed 100%. Open it, or close it and replace it with something else. But don't just leave it shuttered.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Agreed 100%. Open it, or close it and replace it with something else. But don't just leave it shuttered.

Even if "open" means a single cast member selling nothing but lemonade. Or a glorified popcorn cart.

 

[englanddg]

Even if "open" means a single cast member selling nothing but lemonade. Or a glorified popcorn cart.

Yes. Though, I think they could be more inventive than that...

 

[Next Big Thing]

Tomorrowland Terrace was open yesterday as well. Sorry I didn't post the Polly menu for several hours.

TLT has been open for about 2 weeks now. Again, it's just a seasonal thing, but I highly disagree with TLT being seasonal when you consider how slammed Casey's gets all of the time. Opening up TLT permanently would help to take a lot of stress off of Casey's.

 

[ford91exploder]

Not quite. A guest who is going to eat lunch is going to eat lunch regardless of WHERE he eats lunch. A hot dog sold at Aunt Polly's is a hot dog NOT sold at Pecos Bill's or wherever (exceptions for unique offerings like Flame Tree or LeFou's Brew where it's a bit more incremental). I think the cannibalization rate for QS F&B is something like 75%. So it's a guest service / convenience play rather than someone all of a sudden figuring out the dollars and cents. That said, it's absolutely the right call to have the place up and running. Or remove it entirely, but the abandoned look is poor show.

NOT True, I've left the MK many times to eat somewhere else because all the dining establishments were too crowded, I've even brought my own sandwiches on busy days so I don't need to deal with a 20-30 minute line at Casey's I'm patient but not that patient

That 'too many' dining establishments cannibalize sales may be received wisdom in the halls of Burbank but in reality many skip meals and simply grab popcorn or a mickey bar to take the edge off and eat somewhere after they leave the park or bring in their OWN food.

Funny how when WDW was making it's best margins on the order of 19%-25% which Lord Business 'Iger' has NEVER matched ALL the dining establishments were open.

 

[ewensell3]

Is there a sign on the "mainland" indicating if Polly's is open? That and a posted menu near the raft queue entrance might draw some of the crowd who otherwise wouldn't know there was a place to eat on the island.

A temporary a-frame sign pointing towards the raft queue would do.

 

[jakeman]

NOT True, I've left the MK many times to eat somewhere else because all the dining establishments were too crowded, I've even brought my own sandwiches on busy days so I don't need to deal with a 20-30 minute line at Casey's I'm patient but not that patient

That 'too many' dining establishments cannibalize sales may be received wisdom in the halls of Burbank but in reality many skip meals and simply grab popcorn or a mickey bar to take the edge off and eat somewhere after they leave the park or bring in their OWN food.

Funny how when WDW was making it's best margins on the order of 19%-25% which Lord Business 'Iger' has NEVER matched ALL the dining establishments were open.

Your confusing the word "many" with the word "I" again.

Your last statement is simply not true. There were many dinning establishments that have been closed for years. Long before Iger took over. Adventureland Verandah, Ariels at the Beach Club, Odyssey.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

Absolutely amazing news. Let's hope it becomes more of a somewhat regular thing and not just purely seasonal. Polly's was always my absolute favorite counter service and I was devastated when I started working at MK in 2007 and found it to be nothing but vending machines.

This is a very very good thing indeed.

 

[NeonNinja]

Wow now that is rare.!

 

[prberk]

Your confusing the word "many" with the word "I" again.

Your last statement is simply not true. There were many dinning establishments that have been closed for years. Long before Iger took over. Adventureland Verandah, Ariels at the Beach Club, Odyssey.

How do you know that the last statement is not true? Are you maybe confusing your opinion with fact as well, maybe?

Sorry, just making a point that you seem to be just as snotty about your own "facts" as you criticize @ford91exploder for. He never said when all the restaurants were open, but I asssume was talking about YEARS ago. That would have been when everything was open.

Anyway, I am interested because I was about to say something similar to explorer but he beat me to it. Not so much about the profit margins line at the end, but about the idea that people will skip meals when the line is too long, but will spend more if the opportunities are more frequent. This is a basic concept from business school, especially impulse buying combined with the marketing concept of "location, location, location." In the case of fast food establishments in a theme park (captive audience), there are not only people who HAVE to eat (and thus WILL wait in line, no matter what, just as you suggested), but there are also people who are (1) on vacation and more open to splurge as the opportunity arises, and (2) teenagers and kids or adults who will yield to temptation (impulse buying) if it is easy but not necessarily if their MM+ fastpass for the next ride does not leave them time to wait in a long line.

So, the canibalism concept is only partly true. For amusement parks with wafting smells of nearby eateries, I would say that the impulse buying concept is just as big as the "need" to find lunch somewhere. And the "location, location, location" concept adds to the impulse sales. The together add to MORE sales overall, EXCEPT that impulse sales are usually diminished significantly if the line is too long (and the opportunity cost of one more ride in your $100/day theme park is compromised).

 

[CaptainAmerica]

How do you know that the last statement is not true? Are you maybe confusing your opinion with fact as well, maybe?

Sorry, just making a point that you seem to be just as snotty about your own "facts" as you criticize @ford91exploder for. He never said when all the restaurants were open, but I asssume was talking about YEARS ago. That would have been when everything was open.

Anyway, I am interested because I was about to say something similar to explorer but he beat me to it. Not so much about the profit margins line at the end, but about the idea that people will skip meals when the line is too long, but will spend more if the opportunities are more frequent. This is a basic concept from business school, especially impulse buying combined with the marketing concept of "location, location, location." In the case of fast food establishments in a theme park (captive audience), there are not only people who HAVE to eat (and thus WILL wait in line, no matter what, just as you suggested), but there are also people who are (1) on vacation and more open to splurge as the opportunity arises, and (2) teenagers and kids or adults who will yield to temptation (impulse buying) if it is easy but not necessarily if their MM+ fastpass for the next ride does not leave them time to wait in a long line.

So, the canibalism concept is only partly true. For amusement parks with wafting smells of nearby eateries, I would say that the impulse buying concept is just as big as the "need" to find lunch somewhere. And the "location, location, location" concept adds to the impulse sales. The together add to MORE sales overall, EXCEPT that impulse sales are usually diminished significantly if the line is too long (and the opportunity cost of one more ride in your $100/day theme park is compromised).

Your theory is sound in principle but that doesn't change the fact that the cannibalization rate on QS F&B in a Disney theme park is around 75%. Everything you said is perfectly true and it's the reason it's not 100%, but it's still way too high to generally state that sales at Aunt Polly's are all incremental and therefore only need to be considered against the incremental opex when performing a break even analysis. @ford91exploder stated "And the PROFIT from selling food far exceeds the 'savings' from keeping dining locations closed...", suggesting that the appropriate formula for the effect of opening of Aunt Polly's is:

Incremental OI = Sales - COGS - Incremental OpEx

The formula is too simple and needs to include sales lost at other venues, regardless of whether it's 75% or 7%.

Incremental OI = Sales - COGS - Incremental OpEx - (Lost Sales - COGS Avoided)

ETA: Your quip about "people will spend more if there are more opportunities" being a basic principle in Business School ignores the type of product being offered. Yes, people will buy more Vinylmations and pins and Mickey socks and spinning glow toys, but it doesn't quite work that way with food. A human person can only consume so many calories in a given day, especially when we're talking about "meal" food like hot dogs, hamburgers, chicken, turkey legs, etc. There's a bit more flexibility when it comes to something like a lemonade or a churro that a person could "take it or leave it," but the natural upper limit on consumption still holds up.

Edit 2: You're also ignoring type of guest. An off-duty cast member is much more likely to eat elsewhere to avoid a long line than someone who's staying at DAK Lodge and arrived via Magical Express. That person has no other option but to dine at WDW, so his dining choices are 100% cannibalization. If he decides to eat at The Mara because Pecos Bill's is too crowded, it's lost revenue to the Magic Kingdom but incremental revenue to Resorts, so it's a wash for TWDC overall.

 

[jakeman]

How do you know that the last statement is not true? Are you maybe confusing your opinion with fact as well, maybe?

Sorry, just making a point that you seem to be just as snotty about your own "facts" as you criticize @ford91exploder for. He never said when all the restaurants were open, but I asssume was talking about YEARS ago. That would have been when everything was open.

My understanding of the statement may be off, but it appears that he is drawing a comparison to time before Iger and now, so that would be anything up to 2005-ish? As for it being my opinion, I offered nothing of the sort. I don't pretend to understand the dining patterns of guest at WDW nor do I apply my own dinning style to everyone else and make all encompassing statements (if I did, BoG would be empty because I've never even attempted to eat there nor do I have a desire to). Regarding the restaurant closures, those really aren't an opinion. Odyssey and Aventureland Veranda have been closed since the mid-90s and Ariels closed and never reopened after 9/11.

My purpose in responding was to demonstrate that he was once again applying his own anecdotal evidence as an example of a larger guest pattern regarding his skipping meals. Also there have been several establishments that have been shuttered for close to two decades now rendering his point obsolete at worst, unverifiable at best because who kept track of what was open and what wasn't in the 70s-early 90s?

And let's be honest, based on his posting history, what are the chances he's right?

EDIT: Regardless of this factual micturition contest we seem to be in, I'm glad that Aunt Poly's is open and think more dinning establishments across property should be un-shuttered. The lines at the current establishments, especially at MK, during peak hours is unacceptable and has been for years.

 

[ford91exploder]

How do you know that the last statement is not true? Are you maybe confusing your opinion with fact as well, maybe?

Sorry, just making a point that you seem to be just as snotty about your own "facts" as you criticize @ford91exploder for. He never said when all the restaurants were open, but I asssume was talking about YEARS ago. That would have been when everything was open.

Anyway, I am interested because I was about to say something similar to explorer but he beat me to it. Not so much about the profit margins line at the end, but about the idea that people will skip meals when the line is too long, but will spend more if the opportunities are more frequent. This is a basic concept from business school, especially impulse buying combined with the marketing concept of "location, location, location." In the case of fast food establishments in a theme park (captive audience), there are not only people who HAVE to eat (and thus WILL wait in line, no matter what, just as you suggested), but there are also people who are (1) on vacation and more open to splurge as the opportunity arises, and (2) teenagers and kids or adults who will yield to temptation (impulse buying) if it is easy but not necessarily if their MM+ fastpass for the next ride does not leave them time to wait in a long line.

So, the canibalism concept is only partly true. For amusement parks with wafting smells of nearby eateries, I would say that the impulse buying concept is just as big as the "need" to find lunch somewhere. And the "location, location, location" concept adds to the impulse sales. The together add to MORE sales overall, EXCEPT that impulse sales are usually diminished significantly if the line is too long (and the opportunity cost of one more ride in your $100/day theme park is compromised).

Precisely, I've been visiting the parks for 3 decades and I can remember when the Diamond Horseshoe was open and had a SHOW and it finally closed in 2003 to become a seasonal eatery. Can't blame that closure on Iger, That one was all on MDE's 'Strategic Planning' group.

Apparently some commenters like to attack the messenger because they don't like the message. Under Iger's tenure P&R margins have been on the order of 12%, Under MDE margins averaged approximately 23% and even MDE's 10 worst years P&R margins were on the order of 15%, Iger's team just managed to get 17% LAST YEAR and that was only achieved by slashing Domestic P&R CAPEX to 7.4% expressed as percentage of revenue, Under MDE CAPEX was 20-26%

Back to the point at hand, DIsney is creating FRICTION or sales resistance with its long waits at meal venues, In the online commerce world you now see order as a 'guest' because companies found people making a one time purchase would 'abandon' their online carts because of the extra effort involved in creating an account.

Bottom line if you make it hard for people to give you money many of them will not. If I'm in NYC and want a hot dog and the cart has too much of a line, Across the street is another cart and you will probably go there for your dog,

WDW labors under the assumption that their customers are a 'captive' audience and will jump through any hoops WDW sets up for them, Since WDW broke my abiility to create FP+ reservations back in August of 2013, I'm not captive to FP+ times so all attractions are standby for me,

So frequently if I'm at the MK and it's busy and I want to eat It's faster to leave the park walk to the contemporary and grab a meal at Contempo Cafe where I can relax and SIT DOWN and eat. Rather than stand 20-30 minutes at Casey's (a favorite of mine) and attempt to find someplace to lean aganst and eat a hotdog and attempt not to spill drink on myself or others.

WDW wants impulse buying but they have forgotten how to facilitate it, They assume only X hotdogs will be sold and try to come up with the cheapest way to sell X hotdogs, Yet they forget the lesson at any sports or concert venue - ever see a food venue closed during a ball game (7'th inning or last quarter excepted)

You ALWAYS want to be ready to take the customers money, Not to give them a excuse to hang onto it...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Bottom line if you make it hard for people to give you money many of them will not. If I'm in NYC and want a hot dog and the cart has too much of a line, Across the street is another cart and you will probably go there for your dog,

Except in your analogy, Disney also owns the hot dog cart across the street.

So frequently if I'm at the MK and it's busy and I want to eat It's faster to leave the park walk to the contemporary and grab a meal at Contempo Cafe where I can relax and SIT DOWN and eat. Rather than stand 20-30 minutes at Casey's (a favorite of mine) and attempt to find someplace to lean aganst and eat a hotdog and attempt not to spill drink on myself or others.

This is kind of my point. Even if you're not a "captive audience" within the Magic Kingdom (as most guests are), you're a captive audience within Walt Disney World. The percentage of guests who would actually leave property to get lunch because the waits at any of the QSRs are too long is paper thin.

 

[Tobe]

It seemed like everything was open yesterday - even Diamond Horseshoe. I'm sorry I didn't get the chance to go over to Aunt Polly's, but it was nice to see so many seasonal locations open, including Tomorrowland Terrace and Tortuga Tavern, and locations with oddball operating schedules, like Golden Oak Outpost. They definitely need these places open more consistently. It's a shame the park has to be packed for to happen.

I agree! Last trip we purposely went to the Magic Kingdom on a specific day just because Tortuga Tavern was supposed to be open that day. Big shock it wasn't. Not a huge deal as I don't expect the food would be great or anything but it's a place that we have never been able to try because it's never been open when we have been in the Magic Kingdom. And for some silly reason, it has become a bit of a quest with us. Kind of frustrating when it was specifically listed to be open that day and we made our plans around that. But then again we knew we were taking a chance and it's too little a thing to get upset over.

Part of our problem is that we always tend to go in April or early May during one of the slower times of the year when many of the secondary food options are closed. We also haven't ever eaten at the Tomorrowland Terrace since it stopped being the noodle station where we had simply awful food. We'll have to try it again sometime when we are in the mood for the burger and fries type of thing and get lucky enough to catch it while it is open.

On a positive note we have managed to hit the Golden Horseshoe once when it was open and enjoyed eating there quite a bit. Food was decent and the atmosphere was fun. I had a pulled pork sandwich which was very filling and really good and we ate upstairs in the balcony.

 

[jakeman]

Precisely, I've been visiting the parks for 3 decades and I can remember when the Diamond Horseshoe was open and had a SHOW and it finally closed in 2003 to become a seasonal eatery. Can't blame that closure on Iger, That one was all on MDE's 'Strategic Planning' group.

Apparently some commenters like to attack the messenger because they don't like the message. Under Iger's tenure P&R margins have been on the order of 12%, Under MDE margins averaged approximately 23% and even MDE's 10 worst years P&R margins were on the order of 15%, Iger's team just managed to get 17% LAST YEAR and that was only achieved by slashing Domestic P&R CAPEX to 7.4% expressed as percentage of revenue, Under MDE CAPEX was 20-26%

Back to the point at hand, DIsney is creating FRICTION or sales resistance with its long waits at meal venues, In the online commerce world you now see order as a 'guest' because companies found people making a one time purchase would 'abandon' their online carts because of the extra effort involved in creating an account.

Bottom line if you make it hard for people to give you money many of them will not. If I'm in NYC and want a hot dog and the cart has too much of a line, Across the street is another cart and you will probably go there for your dog,

WDW labors under the assumption that their customers are a 'captive' audience and will jump through any hoops WDW sets up for them, Since WDW broke my abiility to create FP+ reservations back in August of 2013, I'm not captive to FP+ times so all attractions are standby for me,

So frequently if I'm at the MK and it's busy and I want to eat It's faster to leave the park walk to the contemporary and grab a meal at Contempo Cafe where I can relax and SIT DOWN and eat. Rather than stand 20-30 minutes at Casey's (a favorite of mine) and attempt to find someplace to lean aganst and eat a hotdog and attempt not to spill drink on myself or others.

WDW wants impulse buying but they have forgotten how to facilitate it, They assume only X hotdogs will be sold and try to come up with the cheapest way to sell X hotdogs, Yet they forget the lesson at any sports or concert venue - ever see a food venue closed during a ball game (7'th inning or last quarter excepted)

You ALWAYS want to be ready to take the customers money, Not to give them a excuse to hang onto it...

Some commenters don't seem to realize that their singular experience may not be representative of the whole.

Perhaps if you spent more time just simply communicating and discussing your own experience as just that, your own, instead of repeatedly attempting to tie it into CAPEX or margins or whatever financial term is getting you hot and bothered this month it would go much better for you here, because watch this, I'm about to blow your mind:

I agree with your point that during peak meal times especially at MK the wait times are, in my opinion, unacceptable and could be alleviated by more dining options, several of which have been shuttered for a generation. We don't eat at peak times in MK because of the lines and go often enough that we would appreciate the variety that additional establishments would offer.

 

[Tobe]

EDIT: Regardless of this factual micturition contest we seem to be in, I'm glad that Aunt Poly's is open and think more dinning establishments across property should be un-shuttered. The lines at the current establishments, especially at MK, during peak hours is unacceptable and has been for years.

I personally do not want any more dinning establishments at the MK. There is already enough noise in the place! Now more dining establishments I could get behind.