Attendance drop in the parks... I wonder why

Otterhead

Well-Known Member
The new Disney Springs doesn't make Saratoga Springs more exciting? :)
It does, actually, and being able to get a boat five minutes from my Treehouse to take me to Disney Springs for some tasty food or a drink at Jock Lindsey's was pretty nice. Also a great way to end the day, taking a boat back from the Springs. Honestly a highlight of the trip in some ways. Personally I'd rather stay at the Polynesian or Wilderness Lodge, both for the atmosphere and location, but they aren't my DVC points!
 

Bandini

Well-Known Member
The only thing bringing us back the last few times we've gone to WDW is nostalgia for better experiences in the past
This is exactly the reason for our most recent trip to WDW and it's going to be our last for a while.

If it makes you feel better to think that no one who goes on European River Cruises goes to Disney so be it but I'm sure that's not factual.
I guess my family doesn't fit the target demographic since we've done river cruises and WDW. Sooooo, does that mean Disney doesn't want our business?
 

Ralphlaw

Well-Known Member
Most of the European River cruises market toward the non-children crowd. The new Disney river cruises are the one exception. I think it's still somewhat in the experimental stage, but it's offered I believe through Adventures By Disney, and is indeed geared a bit more toward families.

Viking and the rest actively dissuade people with children from signing up. There are probably many reasons for this, but tops among them would likely be the fact that it's hard to escape the kids on a long, low, thin boat. On big cruise ships, adult only areas are easy to find, and easy to maintain as kid-free. Plus, it's hard to find things for kids to do on a long, low, thin boat. No big splash areas, or Oceaneer Clubs unless the boat is specifically designed accordingly.

We've done three ADB's and they're great. But definitely not cheap. To be honest, I think they are a miniscule part of the company. Assume 30 guests per Adventure. Then assume that adventure goes for 25 weeks/trips out of the year. Then assume that there are 20 adventures offered. That's only 15,000 guests per year, which is a really mediocre day at Magic Kingdom. Even if Disney "profits" $1,000 per ABD guest, that's only $15,000,000 of yearly profit. Sounds okay, but imagine one inattentive guest stepping off a curb in London and getting run over by a double-decker bus. Even with insurance, your profits just dropped dramatically. And even with great safety precautions, one guest out of 15,000 getting seriously hurt is a very real possibility. Believe me, there's serious stress in guiding 30 or so people around world venues, especially in busy foreign countries. Even trying to cross a street with that many people can be a nerve-wracking task. Our guides in St. Petersburg Russia did this on a busy street with questionable traffic laws, and it was not relaxing.

Anyhow, ABD is fun, but it barely warrants a mention in the Annual Report once movies, ESPN, ABC, the parks, the Cruise Line, ILM, Pixar, DVC and all the other divisions are included. It's a great supplement to the idea of vacationing, but it impacts so few people that it's a very minor part of the company. By the way, the adventure guides are usually not even full-time with ABD. Instead, they're often park employees on a break from their normal job, or even private contractors who are not "employed" through Disney during the rest of the year.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
I guess my family doesn't fit the target demographic since we've done river cruises and WDW. Sooooo, does that mean Disney doesn't want our business?

Average age for a person on a European river cruise is around 60...I hear though, some of these cruise lines are attempting to target a younger audience more recently...
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Average age for a person on a European river cruise is around 60...I hear though, they are attempting to target a younger audience more recently...
They are. As in millennials, not children. Unless I missed that. It would be surprising though.

Azamara as an example, I can take my kid on one of their ships..other people have. They do not market to children though, even if a child is onboard. Target market and what someone may do aren't one in the same.
I don't take my kid on Azamara bc I know that most people don't want him there.lol.
 

Bandini

Well-Known Member
Average age for a person on a European river cruise is around 60...I hear though, some of these cruise lines are attempting to target a younger audience more recently...
But when I look around at WDW, all age ranges are represented, There are a lot of adults who visit the parks without kids. And a lot of these people grew up with Walt Disney in their living rooms every Sunday night.
I think it's foolish to assume the parks are just for young families. If that were true, then Disney wouldn't be offering an exclusive CRT dinner.
 

Otterhead

Well-Known Member
Viking and the rest actively dissuade people with children from signing up.
My parents have done a Viking cruise as well as combination river/land trips in Europe, and kids are most definitely not encouraged. They make a point of contacting everyone ahead of time if there's kids present, and offer them options to change their trip. The few times kids have been present, nobody had a good time. I remember my dad calling me from Poland to tell me about the kid on their trip who was kicking a soccer ball against the walls at Auchwitz.
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
Re: Orlando Tourism
Excerpts from recent NY Times article, citing hotel data analytics firm STR:

-Orlando hotel occupancy rate was down ~1.3% for the first 11 months compared to same period 2015; but strengthened in September with a 7.4% increase over 2015
-bookings were holding steady or increasing (year-over-year) towards Dec

And from the most recent Orlando Market Indicators Report (also STR data), October hotel occupancy rates for Orlando varying + or - ~2%.
-------------------------------
Iger specifically said last year (Q2 or Q3 call I think) that some of the decisions were made knowing that it would cost them on attendance. It was an expectation.

Quoting because Iger's comments on the Q3 call about their internal data (lower attendance but high occupancy rates) are consistent with what the external data is now showing. Secondly, I believe that the decision that Iger was referring to was part of an exchange about the introduction of the dynamic pricing model last spring.

ETA: So all things considered, Orlando tourism (including WDW) has fared very well given the numerous challenges of this past summer.
 
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21stamps

Well-Known Member
You and L.C. Clench need to just drop this, Bandini.
You're proving 21stamps wrong, and that is NOT okay.

:hilarious:

I have a request.. could you find and post an article or report saying that the European River Cruise Industry has now switched to marketing themselves as a "family vacation"? I actually love to hear about industries going in a different direction, so that would be interesting to me. Especially ones that are priced less than an "avg" WDW trip, since that was the original topic being discussed.
Thanks in advance!

Obviously myself and a few other people here are completely wrong about that segment of the travel market.
 

snek

Member
I have a request.. could you find and post an article or report saying that the European River Cruise Industry has now switched to marketing themselves as a "family vacation"? I actually love to hear about industries going in a different direction, so that would be interesting to me. Especially ones that are priced less than an "avg" WDW trip, since that was the original topic being discussed.
Thanks in advance!

Obviously myself and a few other people here are completely wrong about that segment of the travel market.
I can try! Do I get one of your fp+ as payment?

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=6670

https://www.uniworld.com/en/themed-cruises/family-friendly-cruises/
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member

This is probably the applicable quote:
While traditionally river cruising has appeared to cater to an older generation with more income and more time to spend away from home—Travelsense says river cruise passengers have an average age of 61 with an average income of $80,000—“family travel and multigenerational travel is really set to explode,” said Chris Greco, brand manager at Tauck River Cruising.
Traditional market vs. current shift/trend.
 
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Andrew C

You know what's funny?
But when I look around at WDW, all age ranges are represented, There are a lot of adults who visit the parks without kids. And a lot of these people grew up with Walt Disney in their living rooms every Sunday night.
I think it's foolish to assume the parks are just for young families. If that were true, then Disney wouldn't be offering an exclusive CRT dinner.

That's fine. I only quoted your post because you mentioned demographics. Just wanted to mention who typically sails on European river cruises.
 

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