Attendance drop in the parks... I wonder why

[DisneyBall60]

I have a good time wherever I go.

Thanks for the input.

I do too - even on short domestic breaks in the UK (where I'm from), but when I last visited WDW 20 odd years ago as a teenager it was a one off. I'm visiting again this year as a parent and I'm equally excited - for myself and my family. I hope to get the same buzz as all those years ago,even if it does cost more (particularly with the currency hit for me).

 

[Nemo14]

Thanks for the input.

I do too - even on short domestic breaks in the UK (where I'm from), but when I last visited WDW 20 odd years ago as a teenager it was a one off. I'm visiting again this year as a parent and I'm equally excited - for myself and my family. I hope to get the same buzz as all those years ago,even if it does cost more (particularly with the currency hit for me).

It wasn't meant as sarcasm - simply a statement of fact. I have spent a lot of time both before kids and after, and now as an empty nester traveling throughout this beautiful country and parts of Europe, and even those trips that were less than stellar were good times, with or without Disney "magic".

 

[Bandini]

Thanks for the input.

I do too - even on short domestic breaks in the UK (where I'm from), but when I last visited WDW 20 odd years ago as a teenager it was a one off. I'm visiting again this year as a parent and I'm equally excited - for myself and my family. I hope to get the same buzz as all those years ago,even if it does cost more (particularly with the currency hit for me).

You'll have a fantastic time. But I assume based on what I have read on these boards: You will pay a lot less for your park tickets I believe it averages out to about $ 23/day and since you are visiting from the UK, I also assume you will be there for an extended visit.
If you are there for an extended visit, your touring style can be more relaxed. We typically visited for 5 days and FP+ coupled with ADR's, just made us feel over scheduled.

 

[BigRedDad]

I would be interested to know where else you have been and had just as good a time?

My DW was hit an accident 3 years ago. Because the other person's insurance company is horrible, we had to file a lawsuit to recover. That has still not completed. We went through her health insurance and bills crossed over years so the out-of-pocket max and deductible took a double hit to us. On top of medical, we had to replace her vehicle and payoff home upgrades. It wiped out every bit of cash we had and every account that we had that we could borrow against.

Because we could not afford Disney last year, we went to Williamsburg, VA. I'll admit first that the Wyndham we stayed at is not as nice as any Disney property. However, it had all the amenities we could ask for, daily kids activities, free putt putt, free game room, proximity to restaurants. It was by no means horrible, just condo units that are a bit older. Full kitchen and grills right outside. The 1BR unit ($400 for 1-week), passes to Busch Gardens/Water Country USA for May through Labor Day ($210), colonial Williamsburg passes (not sure what they cost), food and gas (~$500 since we had it in the room and cooked most every meal). We spent a grand total of $1,300 for the trip and had just as good of a time. The other added benefit is the E-rides are 100x better than WDW. Completely different vacation, great time with family, just not at Disney and saved probably 60-75% of a Disney trip.

 

[Grimley1968]

We went to EPCOT on 12/23/16. We had steeled ourselves for wall-to-wall crowds. The reality was almost the opposite. We experienced the lowest EPCOT crowd we've seen since September 2001. We ended up having a pretty good time. The weather was perfect and we got to do literally everything we wanted and rode every single ride - just barely. We even got to use the Odyssey building as a shortcut because there was some kind of craft beer thing going on in there.

I think pricing has a lot to do with lower attendance. But pricing in itself might be less relevant if they were adding to the number of attractions instead of reducing them, if their ride-rationing system wasn't such a chore to plan out so far in advance to avoid missing out on favorite remaining attractions, and if it didn't seem like so many things that used to come with admission are now upsell events. It seems even if prices were the same as 5 years ago, we'd be getting less for our money. That is only magnified when the prices actually increase.

 

[George]

Central Florida overall experienced a dip in 2016.

Karst topography strikes again.

 

[21stamps]

A lot of people say to me that once you have been WDW, it is hard to holiday anywhere else (putting value to one side). I would be interested to know where else you have been and had just as good a time?

Thanks

I don't agree that it's hard to vacation anywhere else. I love Disney, but will never be an exclusively WDW vacationer. We just got into camping 2 years ago.. after the first time my kid declared it was "The Best Week EVER!" (Probably bc it is the only week out of 52 where we have NO schedule)
We go to Key West, he Loves it. Disney- same. Boating and a lake house in Tennessee- same. Etc etc etc.

I think I read somewhere that the avg WDW vacation was $4k-$5k. There's nothing apples to apples to compare bc Disney is, well, Disney, but if you just look at the other "Top Family Destinations"-
Beaches. Altlantis. DCL. Royal Caribbean's new(er) ships.
All of these are at a similar price point or higher compared to "avg" WDW.

I've been thinking about things that I read on these boards..it's somewhat of a different mentality than most travelers. People say things like "If you can afford it do ___". "If you swing it..". "I'm blessed to go to Disney every year." And so on. Value is so subjective, and what someone can "afford" doesn't always influence their decisions. I know plenty of people who take several vacations per year, to awesome destinations, and are completely happy staying at POFQ or a standard room at AKL even though they can "afford" to stay wherever they want..They don't see the justification. I cancelled Netflix recently, not bc I can't afford it, but bc I noticed that we hadn't logged in a period of almost 3 months. Is anyone else who is still paying for Netflix wasting their money? No, not if they watch it. Any decision that someone makes is based on their life and wants and needs, and mostly value perception.

Point being, I think there's a lot of projecting or different thinking going on here. There's a whole world outside of WDW, but sometimes people don't look at the rest of the world to compare to Disney. Instead they are comparing to 1995.lol.

 

[MickeyMomV]

We were there in April and attendance still seemed rather high. Not as busy as Christmas but still pretty busy. I know that Disney does not release attendance numbers but it would be nice to see if attendance was actually down.

 

[21stamps]

We were there in April and attendance still seemed rather high. Not as busy as Christmas but still pretty busy. I know that Disney does not release attendance numbers but it would be nice to see if attendance was actually down.

We were there 11/26-12/4 and it was packed. I chose that week bc it was supposed to be one of the slowest of the year. Crowd predictions were 2s and 3s in March of '16. By late summer they were at 8s-10s for that week.
I'm very curious to know if it was actually down as well.

 

[DisneyBall60]

You'll have a fantastic time. But I assume based on what I have read on these boards: You will pay a lot less for your park tickets I believe it averages out to about $ 23/day and since you are visiting from the UK, I also assume you will be there for an extended visit.
If you are there for an extended visit, your touring style can be more relaxed. We typically visited for 5 days and FP+ coupled with ADR's, just made us feel over scheduled.

That does sound a little stressful. We are over for 14 nights, with 14 day WDW hoppers at about £21 per day. In reality we wont set foot in Disney for all 14 days but you pay for the flexibility. Even if we done 10 visits @ £29 per day you are getting a lot for your money imo.

 

[LizaMarie89]

I think pricing has a lot to do with lower attendance. But pricing in itself might be less relevant if they were adding to the number of attractions instead of reducing them, if their ride-rationing system wasn't such a chore to plan out so far in advance to avoid missing out on favorite remaining attractions, and if it didn't seem like so many things that used to come with admission are now upsell events. It seems even if prices were the same as 5 years ago, we'd be getting less for our money. That is only magnified when the prices actually increase.

I think regardless of ride changes the price increases are too steep considering the current economy and job issues. With wages that barely support a family in everyday life it's very difficult to find the money to go away. I've literally started saving for a trip that will be in 2 years just so that I won't have to worry about money and will get to do everything I never got to do at Disney as a child - It's for my 30th birthday.

I will be interested to see if the opening of all of these new lands and attractions will change anything in terms of attendance or if the decline will continue or hold steady.

 

[pax_65]

I'm sure Disney is still attracting the family with young children who have saved up for this "once in a lifetime" trip. But my sense is that the typical Disney fanatic is reducing the frequency of their repeat trips. ROI is a huge part of that. Lack of new attractions factors in. Maybe the biggest thing is the loss of "Magic" - we used to feel so special as a Disney guest. Not so much these days. MM+, cash grabs, shorter hours, these all factor in.

We used to go at least twice a year. A few years back we cut that to once a year. Now we're looking at once every other year.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I doubt Disney wanted it to happen because of all of the extra marketing they are running to get attendance to climb back up. I do think the price increases are partially to blame

Marketing to customers doesn't necessarily mean they want as many of them to come as possible. I really think Disney has increased prices to curb demand somewhat. They have learned that it can't be a "beating" to go to Disney and people will spend more and come back if they are comfortable.

It's just a theory, but you have to believe they are at least consciousnesses of overcrowding.

 

[Grimley1968]

I'm sure Disney is still attracting the family with young children who have saved up for this "once in a lifetime" trip. But my sense is that the typical Disney fanatic is reducing the frequency of their repeat trips. ROI is a huge part of that. Lack of new attractions factors in. Maybe the biggest thing is the loss of "Magic" - we used to feel so special as a Disney guest. Not so much these days. MM+, cash grabs, shorter hours, these all factor in.

We used to go at least twice a year. A few years back we cut that to once a year. Now we're looking at once every other year.

This sounds like us. Disney fanatics reduced to once every other year at most now.

 

[Ralphlaw]

We still go just about every year since 2003, although my kids are now a bit older and don't feel the "magic" like they used to. Here's what I've seen as the plusses and minuses:

Plusses:

1. Fastpass + makes it easier to ease into the day without being there at rope drop and running to Soarin', EE, etc . . .
2. Magical Express is very handy.
3. Soarin', the new TestTrack and Fantasyland are plusses to us.
4. Monitoring wait times on my phone is handy, although it's definitely not overly accurate.

Minuses:

1. We miss the year of a million dreams. That brought unexpected delights.
2. In 2004, while eating at the Rose and Crowne, my son was asked to wave a light saber to "start" Illuminations. Magical for him. Does stuff like that still happen?
3. Crowds seem bigger, (but in all fairness we're forced to go at Christmas due to school schedules).
4. Too many "Disney" characters at Epcot. The IP-ing of Mexico and Norway is very annoying to us. Epcot once transcended the characters.
5. I miss the quest to grab paper Fastpasses, but FP+ is handy in its way. Things were greatest when they overlapped.
6. Helicopters flying all over. It's becoming impossible to relax at a resort pool with that abrupt noise every 5 minutes.
7. The obvious diminution of certain attractions, like the TTA narration. Pure drivel that is anything but "out of this world.".
8. Some unique "only at Disney" things, like giant gingerbread houses at the resorts. What happened at Boardwalk?
9. Extras, like segue tours and other behind the scenes stuff, seem less common.
10.The lack of any effort whatsoever to cure, or at least to mitigate, the lack of a yeti at EE. A $20 disco light is the best they can do? For how many years now?
11. Extra Magic Hours at night. It seems they used to be more common.
12. Truly great parades (or 2) in every park, especially Spectromagic, which was fantastic.
13. Really cool free stuff. Try to get a decent seat for the Candlelight Processional without dropping $60 a person for the meal package.
14. Speedy changes. Avatarland has been in construction for how long? Quick turnaround is a thing of the past.
15. Less effort, it seems, to edutain us in Future World and other places.
16. Fewer nooks and crannies. Little hidden gems like the back rooms at Morocco, or the talking well at Indy Jones, seem to be disappearing.
17. Truly notable CMs. We once had an assistant on the boats between Epcot and Studios who sang and told jokes. What happened to truly notable CMs like him?
18. Great characters. What happened to the bouncing Tigger at Crystal Palace who kissed my Mom on the cheek? Now they just seem to stand and pose. One great character portrayal could make a trip.
19. Overall, the feeling that it's not all about Mickey and the gang. Future World and Downtown Disney had stuff that gave us a break. Now the characters are everywhere, and Disney music is everywhere. World Showcase, Cirque do Soleil, and other such places truly gave you a break from the characters and the cotton candy of cartoon land. Now, I find it harder to feel immersed in culture and other things that aren't about Mickey.

Oh well, that's my impression. We'll keep going back, but hopefully none of the above minuses will overly-detract for us.

 

[Raineman]

When it comes to ROI or value for your vacation dollar, here's a little personal experience. I recently returned from a 1 week trip to an all inclusive beach resort in Cuba. For one week, which included hotel, unlimited food and drink, and airfare, it was $2400 CAD total for myself, my wife and my 11 year old daughter. Our last trip to WDW last March, which included 8 nights at Pop Century, 7 day park tickets with park hopper, and standard DDP, it was about $4700 CAD total for the three of us-and that did not include gas/hotels for our drive there and back, and any food or drink we bought over and above the dining plan. Did I get better value for our Cuba trip than our WDW trip? Yes and no. Financially, we did, paying half for Cuba. I did enjoy relaxing on the beach or around the pool with a drink in my hand for a week, but there were times that I felt like I should be doing something fun-which was the kind of activity I got at WDW 10 months earlier. So for myself, the $4700 spent for WDW was a better value than paying half that for our Cuba trip, even though I enjoyed Cuba. For my wife, who loves the beach and the sun, the Cuba trip held more value, even though she still loves WDW. From the comments on here, it really seems as if more people in 2016 found a better value elsewhere than at WDW, for whatever reasons, even though there were still alot of people who chose WDW.

 

[Dead2009]

Or...Disney wanted this to happen due to overcrowding complaints.

Im sure they're sitting in a board meeting going "gee, I sure do wish people would stop coming to the parks today."

 

[Ralphlaw]

When it comes to ROI or value for your vacation dollar, here's a little personal experience. I recently returned from a 1 week trip to an all inclusive beach resort in Cuba. For one week, which included hotel, unlimited food and drink, and airfare, it was $2400 CAD total for myself, my wife and my 11 year old daughter. Our last trip to WDW last March, which included 8 nights at Pop Century, 7 day park tickets with park hopper, and standard DDP, it was about $4700 CAD total for the three of us-and that did not include gas/hotels for our drive there and back, and any food or drink we bought over and above the dining plan. Did I get better value for our Cuba trip than our WDW trip? Yes and no. Financially, we did, paying half for Cuba. I did enjoy relaxing on the beach or around the pool with a drink in my hand for a week, but there were times that I felt like I should be doing something fun-which was the kind of activity I got at WDW 10 months earlier. So for myself, the $4700 spent for WDW was a better value than paying half that for our Cuba trip, even though I enjoyed Cuba. For my wife, who loves the beach and the sun, the Cuba trip held more value, even though she still loves WDW. From the comments on here, it really seems as if more people in 2016 found a better value elsewhere than at WDW, for whatever reasons, even though there were still alot of people who chose WDW.

Good point. One thing about WDW is the fact that there is always something you could be doing. You could well decide to veg out and do nothing, but the option of doing something is always there. On other vacations, it often comes down to sitting at the bar, sitting at the beach, sitting at the pool, or . . . not much else. At WDW, you can be as busy as you want whenever you want.

Two years ago we miscalculated and didn't have park hoppers for our last day before we got on the plane that night. No worries. We rode the boats, rode the monorail, rode bikes, got ice cream, explored a few of the hotels, and ultimately ended up for lunch at Whispering Canyon. We had a great time without going into the parks. Can any other vacation essentially fill a day for 5 people, ages 9 to 51, with great and memorable stuff even though the main thing (the parks) were essentially closed to them? I think not.

 

[Patcheslee]

For a first visit we had quite a few reasons to hold off until now. DD8 likes thrill rides but didn't hit the 48in mark until August 2016, and that's with shoes on. Was a single mom for years so obviously money was a big part, along with vacation days available for work. Buying a house 2 years ago because it was cheaper than ever renting here. Me being selfish and wanting an actual wedding this past June instead of eloping. It was only a 2500 budget but still could have gone towards other things. We agreed to skip a honeymoon to put towards a family vacation later. Also school not allowing kids to miss more than 5 days a year before being reported to court doesn't help, so that option is always out. I'll admit a Disney trip was never top priority just something I hoped I'd be able to do while DD8 was still at the age that all is magic. DH was the one who finally said we're in a good place financially and have the chance so here we are. I'd love to wait for SW Land to open but guess it's one of those take the trip while we can.

 

[pax_65]

I don't really see how you can compare a Disney vacation to a resort in Cuba (or anywhere else). It's a totally different type of vacation. I used to argue that Disney was the greatest because there was so much to do and you got so much for every dollar you spent. There's still a lot to do, but I don't feel the value is anywhere close to what we used to get. So for me the more relevant comparison is a Disney vacation today versus the Disney vacations we took 5 or 10 years ago.

To be honest, we're still figuring out alternatives. It's hard for us because we love Disney so much, but at this point I almost feel an obligation to "speak with my wallet" to let Disney know we're not particularly happy with the direction the parks are taking.