Are you 23?

[Ashitaka]

I went back and forth on this and decided in the end that I wasn't 23.

The final decision was based on flipping through the magazine at B&N. Once done, I realized that's all I'd really get out of it - a quick flip-through. It's laid out nicely and looks good, but the topics of the articles didn't do much for me. Most of them seemed just to be promoting something: UP, Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland, the Broadway version of Little Mermaid. And an article on a series of ads (by Annie Leibowitz)? :shrug:

The article on them bringing back the Sleeping Beauty walk-through attraction at Disneyland looked interesting, but they already had a lot about that on the Sleeping Beauty dvd. So I didn't feel compelled to buy the magazine just to read that.

(On a side note, I do subscribe to Tales From the Laughing Place and enjoy it for its photography and in-depth articles. Their topics seem more wide range, both geographically, as they feature the parks around the world, and time-wise, as they have articles about things past, not just the latest upcoming thing.)

If Twenty+Three cost $5, I'd snatch it right up. But not for its current price, whether it be by single issue or through membership.

The rest of the benefits of membership don't really do much for me as I'm not the type to buy much merchandise. Nor does the Expo interest me.

So I've decided at this point, it's not for me. I'm sure others will enjoy their memberships and I hope they keep the rest of us updated about what the surprise gift was and what future benefits come along.

So I'll check out the (free) website from time-to-time, and I'll take a flip-through the next issue that comes out. Who knows - Maybe I'll change my mind.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Far as I know Merf's last post was telling Steve to grow a pair... don't know about Enigma though.

Enigma was on here for no other reason then rebel rouse... He was a past member who was banned for inciting trouble..

 

[Phonedave]

Well said. Out of respect to Steve, I normally don't post links to my (pawltry) site, but I did put up my opinion of the whole shebang here.

From your site

You’re not joining D23 because it’s elitist, but you have an idea for a club that’s much better… one that REAL fans will join, instead of just “fanboys?” Sounds pretty elitist to me.

You smacked that nail right on the head. - excellent post, and well thought out response to the vitrol that is flying all over the boards lately.



I have sort of backed off commenting as of late because, quite frankly, all these "discussions" have boiled down to the following.

You guy's are a bunch of unhappy gits who Disney will never be able to please.

and

You guy's are a bunch of raving fanboys (or my new favorite, fanbois - because that spelling somhow makes it worse) who love the Disney kool-aid


Well guess what. there are many things I like about Disney in general and WDW in specific, and there are many things I think they could do better. I am an AP holder, TIW card holder, DVC owner, and now a D23 charter member. No I am not a fanboy (or boi, or beaux) and nor am I an unplesant git (well, some may argue that point).

I would like to have intellegent discussions about TWDC and it's offerings - if I could find such a discussion on this site anymore. They used to be there. In fact they are why I started frequenting this site, and "left" another site. I know there are many people here who can have intellegent REAL discussions - not one sided camp building, but it seems nobody wants to make that effort anymore. It's just much easier to find new creative spellings for "fanboy"

-dave

 

[jt04]

I think you have a perfect grasp on the situation.

Frankly, there are some folks who seem to think it's perfectly OK here to call others 'Communists' ... to suggest they put their real names and personal information online to prove to them they know what they are talking about ... and infer that they know 'things' about people beyond what is put out here.

Now ... maybe they do so because they are bored little fanbois looking to get a rise from someone. That's likely the case. But either way, it isn't cool at all and if other more innocuous statements disappear in the dark of night, one might think that more serious transgressions be dealt with as firmly.

I really think the moderators need to take a bit of a better handle on the leash so to speak ... I know 'beloved' characters such as merf and enigma got sliced off this site and while I don't know the circumstances, I am reasonably confident they didn't engage in the above BS.

Quite simply if you are going to sling insults you should be prepared to have a few slung back at ya. Where is your sense of fair play? :shrug:

The moderators have a great tolerance of what that means. It is one of the things that makes this forum so superior. Brits understand give and take and when the line is crossed. We could use a lot more of that here in the USA.

 

[jakeman]

Well guess what. there are many things I like about Disney in general and WDW in specific, and there are many things I think they could do better. I am an AP holder, TIW card holder, DVC owner, and now a D23 charter member. No I am not a fanboy (or boi, or beaux) and nor am I an unplesant git (well, some may argue that point).

I would like to have intellegent discussions about TWDC and it's offerings - if I could find such a discussion on this site anymore. They used to be there. In fact they are why I started frequenting this site, and "left" another site. I know there are many people here who can have intellegent REAL discussions - not one sided camp building, but it seems nobody wants to make that effort anymore. It's just much easier to find new creative spellings for "fanboy"

-dave

I agree dave. I have almost all the same memberships save the D23 one and feel the same as you do.

In light of trying to have an intellegent discussion about it, why did you choose to purchase into it? What made the $15 extra dollars worth it? Because it didn't sell itself to me.

 

[EpcotServo]

From your site

You’re not joining D23 because it’s elitist, but you have an idea for a club that’s much better… one that REAL fans will join, instead of just “fanboys?” Sounds pretty elitist to me.

You smacked that nail right on the head. - excellent post, and well thought out response to the vitrol that is flying all over the boards lately.



I have sort of backed off commenting as of late because, quite frankly, all these "discussions" have boiled down to the following.

You guy's are a bunch of unhappy gits who Disney will never be able to please.

and

You guy's are a bunch of raving fanboys (or my new favorite, fanbois - because that spelling somhow makes it worse) who love the Disney kool-aid


Well guess what. there are many things I like about Disney in general and WDW in specific, and there are many things I think they could do better. I am an AP holder, TIW card holder, DVC owner, and now a D23 charter member. No I am not a fanboy (or boi, or beaux) and nor am I an unplesant git (well, some may argue that point).

I would like to have intellegent discussions about TWDC and it's offerings - if I could find such a discussion on this site anymore. They used to be there. In fact they are why I started frequenting this site, and "left" another site. I know there are many people here who can have intellegent REAL discussions - not one sided camp building, but it seems nobody wants to make that effort anymore. It's just much easier to find new creative spellings for "fanboy"

-dave

^
If any of you want to put this much work into fighting 64, just remember that I was the one who started this and you'll be vastly comforted with the knowledge that I'M the evil elitist fanboy separatist behind this scheme...















Sleep well good friends.
:lol: :wave:

 

[imagineer boy]

Well said. Out of respect to Steve, I normally don't post links to my (pawltry) site, but I did put up my opinion of the whole shebang here.

"We all know that there are those out there who absolutely cannot be happy with Disney. Imagineering could reopen Horizons, and have Dreamfinder doing the samba with Jesus Christ at the dedication ceremony… the next day, people would be on the forums complaining that they should have done the tango instead. It’s simply impossible to please those who refuse to be happy with something. And there are a lot of people like that in the Disney fan community."

And you're simply too happy with Disney. The Imagineers could build a o strip club in the middle of Fantasyland and you'd still be giving your lectures about how we complain too much and that we can't judge it until we try it.

And for the record, we are not "refusing" to be happy with what Disney's doing. We know what needs to be done to the parks, and we know what Disney needs and the Disney execs are so creativity impaired and cost-minded that they're not doing what needs to be done and are only doing things to squeeze every penny out of people's pockets.

 

[jakeman]

And you're simply too happy with Disney. The Imagineers could build a o strip club in the middle of Fantasyland and you'd still be giving your lectures about how we complain too much and that we can't judge it until we try it.

If one doesn't feel the need to find fault in everything that Disney does, why does that make them "too happy with Disney"? There is such thing as a happy medium.

With regard to not judging something until you try it, around here, people condem things based on concept art.

And for the record, we are not "refusing" to be happy with what Disney's doing. We know what needs to be done to the parks, and we know what Disney needs and the Disney execs are so creativity impaired and cost-minded that they're not doing what needs to be done and are only doing things to squeeze every penny out of people's pockets.

You may think you know, but you also have no idea what other factors are involved in the numerous layers at Disney. I'm not defending the decisions that have been made, just simply pointing out that just because you have access to the internet doesn't mean you know how to run a billion dollar corporation.

 

[imagineer boy]

You may think you know, but you also have no idea what other factors are involved in the numerous layers at Disney. I'm not defending the decisions that have been made, just simply pointing out that just because you have access to the internet doesn't mean you know how to run a billion dollar corporation.

Do you?

 

[jakeman]

Do you?

I never claimed too. You have.

 

[imagineer boy]

I never claimed too. You have.

No, I said,

We know what needs to be done to the parks, and we know what Disney needs

at least in terms of what needs to be done to the parks. I didn't say I knew how to run a corporation.

 

[Matpez]

I need to lay this debate to rest, I'm tired of it too... :snore:

I don't think I am a crazy "fanboi" in any way. I am a WDW fan. I will admit I partially based relocating from NY to Florida on how close we could actually live to WDW. (I know all of you on WDWMagic understand this)
Living in NY my wife and I considered DVC. We did the whole tour and everything. We decided that it wasn't for us partly because of the cost.
Now that I live in Central Florida, have an AP and vist the WDW parks many times monthly.
So, in an effort to keep this short, I am a huge wdw fan. I however also have an AP for Universal/IOA and most recenlty Busch Gardens Tampa.
I love WDW, but I appreciate and enjoy the other parks too.
I believe that for me, someone who loves WDW, D23 is a great concept and if it came out at $20 I would have been the first in line.
Just like DVC, I thought it was too much right away, but really looked into it. After thinking it over, $75 is actually not just high, but unreasonable.
I can renew my TiW card which offers me a real, tangible benefit that I use frequently for $75. There are more, but I am trying to keep this post short.
My point. I AM 64. I admin the FB group. It's fun. We do not hate D23, but for all of us, who still love WDW, it is unreasonable at $75.
It is unreasonable to spend $16 on a magazine, so that argument won't work either.
64 is not out to destroy 23. Not at all. We might even wish we could be 23. We can't. Not for $75. No way. We now have our way to come together and still chat about our love for all things Disney and still have a certificate that is "suitable for framing". The FB group has already grown to almost 90 members and is still going. Not by people that hate WDW and 23, but by those who either can't or won't spend $75 on it.
And ready for the big kicker... we have members at 64 who ARE 23. Really. Come join us to, because, it's free and it's fun.
And maybe it is our "peaceful protest" to the unreasonable $75, but maybe, just maybe, we do feel "less than 23".
Disney set up a club for it's fans, and we can't be a part of it, even though we should be, in our minds.

From the FB discussion board.

23 reasons I am 64.

23. I have never paid for a speed pass to ride fast track.

22. I love the "No way Jose".

21. I see MVMCP, BTMRR, FoTLK, PotC as words.

20. Chaos, Order and Meaning are chapters of my favorite show.

19. "Por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas".

18. Camp Minnie Mickey is temporary, right?

17. My favorite character is a mountain climber, superhero, cowboy, a pirate and "From head to tail, he's royal purple pigment".

16. I have seen and can identify "A mode", "B1 mode" and "B2 mode".

15. A map would only slow me down.

14. "Watch your head and step. If you forget to watch your head, please watch your language".

13. My favorite drop sequence goes down first.

12. "If something can't be done with X-S, then it shouldn't be done at all."

11. Now I'd like to point out some of my favorite plants. That one. That one. And, that one.

10. I'm walking right down the middle of Main Street U.S.A.!

9. I always ride the WEDway.

8. I went "behind the seeds" before it was cool.

7. I know that stopping in the middle is distinctly unpatriotic, so I always let a big group go first.

5. Allears, WDWRadio, WDWmagic, , Mousebits....

4. The 10 plus GB of unreleased area music.

3. I know at what time and location to watch the 3:00 parade.

2. I am Tomorrow's Child.

1. October 1, 2007.

 

[jakeman]

at least in terms of what needs to be done to the parks. I didn't say I knew how to run a corporation.

To neglect the other pieces of the corporation is myopic at best. Pardon me for not clarifying that you only claim to know how to run one division of a multi billion dollar corporation.

I can see now how my post was out of line and unjustified.

 

[GothMickey]

I need to lay this debate to rest, I'm tired of it too... :snore:

I don't think I am a crazy "fanboi" in any way. I am a WDW fan. I will admit I partially based relocating from NY to Florida on how close we could actually live to WDW. (I know all of you on WDWMagic understand this)
Living in NY my wife and I considered DVC. We did the whole tour and everything. We decided that it wasn't for us partly because of the cost.
Now that I live in Central Florida, have an AP and vist the WDW parks many times monthly.
So, in an effort to keep this short, I am a huge wdw fan. I however also have an AP for Universal/IOA and most recenlty Busch Gardens Tampa.
I love WDW, but I appreciate and enjoy the other parks too.
I believe that for me, someone who loves WDW, D23 is a great concept and if it came out at $20 I would have been the first in line.
Just like DVC, I thought it was too much right away, but really looked into it. After thinking it over, $75 is actually not just high, but unreasonable.
I can renew my TiW card which offers me a real, tangible benefit that I use frequently for $75. There are more, but I am trying to keep this post short.
My point. I AM 64. I admin the FB group. It's fun. We do not hate D23, but for all of us, who still love WDW, it is unreasonable at $75.
It is unreasonable to spend $16 on a magazine, so that argument won't work either.
64 is not out to destroy 23. Not at all. We might even wish we could be 23. We can't. Not for $75. No way. We now have our way to come together and still chat about our love for all things Disney and still have a certificate that is "suitable for framing". The FB group has already grown to almost 90 members and is still going. Not by people that hate WDW and 23, but by those who either can't or won't spend $75 on it.
And ready for the big kicker... we have members at 64 who ARE 23. Really. Come join us to, because, it's free and it's fun.
And maybe it is our "peaceful protest" to the unreasonable $75, but maybe, just maybe, we do feel "less than 23".
Disney set up a club for it's fans, and we can't be a part of it, even though we should be, in our minds.

From the FB discussion board.

But, isn't that a little redundant since, well, we can post here? :shrug:

I didn't join D23 mainly cause of cost. I am trying to be more conservative with my spending, and I could not justify $75 dollars for a fan club. Not at this time. I see no need for some fanboy 64 club. I know it is all in fun, but, it looks tacky on everyone's part.

Let me be the first to state it here: I AM NOT D23 NOR AM I 64!!! I AM WDWMAGIC!!!! AND PROUD OF IT....

 

[jedimaster1227]

You're right, but your assumption uses the full retail price. When you subscribe to a magazine, generally you don't pay face value for the magazine. Since they don't offer a separate subscription, we have no way, other than what you stated, of valuing the magazine. So, your numbers make sense, but the actual value is an unknown number. We would need to know how much of that $75 is allocated towards the magazine by Disney internally.

Edit: I have to admit. You're comments about the magazine are tempting me.

Even though we aren't able to properly place a definitive price on the magazine's retail value yet, I look at it this way... If I were to buy all four of this year's issues at Barnes and Nobles, I would be paying $60+ with tax. Considering that that price alone is just short of fifteen dollars less that the D23 membership price point, I figure I can fork over the extra money if I'm going to get the magazines anyways. The magazines (to me) are worth the membership price alone--everything else is just an added bonus.

Some counter points:

1. Will that really protect the magazine from getting bent and squished in your mailbox by Postman Pat?

2. It may be $15 an issue, but as already mentioned when do you pay full price at BaN?

3. With your price logic and Disney's shipping cost and exchange rate, that magazine gets doubled in price for me, so now I'm paying $120 CND for 4 magazines or $30 each. Not a good deal, regardless of how fancy it looks.

1. Very likely not. There isn't much you can do about that. I guess thats just something you assume is going to happen no matter what.

2. I'm not sure what you are asking. It is $15 dollars (plus tax) per issue at Barnes and Nobles--that seems to be the full price.

3. As part of the membership, shipping is included. By your logic you are actually paying $75 (in addition to the fees for currency conversion) to include shipping, the magazines, the membership card and certificate and the gift. It seems like you are getting more for your money when you look at it that way... :shrug:

One question ... no ... two:

1.) Have you ever picked up a copy of Tales From the Laughing Place;

and if so ...

2.) Can you honestly say that Tales isn't a higher quality publication that covers a lot more territory and on a deeper and more intellectual level therefore offering a far better 'value' to fans?

~Hey, Leemac ... read that!~

1. No. Should I be embarassed to say I've never heard of it? :lookaroun

2. I can't judge, but for me its not about comparison. I've been in a state of bliss reading this premier issue, and honestly, the price and the complaints don't phase me. This is just one of those things that from the minute I opened the page I felt justified.

I'm sure you know by now that I'm a glutton for debate, but this is one of those topics that I don't feel compelled to go back and forth on because no matter what, I'm happy with what I've gotten out of D23. What anyone else gets out of it is up to them, but I'm content.

 

[Ausdaddy]

Even though we aren't able to properly place a definitive price on the magazine's retail value yet, I look at it this way... If I were to buy all four of this year's issues at Barnes and Nobles, I would be paying $60+ with tax. Considering that that price alone is just short of fifteen dollars less that the D23 membership price point, I figure I can fork over the extra money if I'm going to get the magazines anyways. The magazines (to me) are worth the membership price alone--everything else is just an added bonus.

I understand. I'll probably remain on the fence for a bit. I want to see, if they add anything that I find of substantial value.

 

[Matpez]

But, isn't that a little redundant since, well, we can post here? :shrug:

Well, no. Why? The FB group actually gets out to more than just members here. Our FB page already has surpassed the number of members over the WDWMagic social group. It isn't about WDWMagic. Steve's site here is awesome and is THE reason many of us are now friends "in the real world".
Even if I had joined 23 and even if 23 had a forum, it would never compare to WDWMagic, but again, this isn't just about us. There are other true fans out there that like 64. That's all.
:wave:

 

[MousDad]

I'm sick of saying this, but if it's justified by the cost/value of the magazine, then they should be calling it a MAGAZINE, not a FAN CLUB.

 

[jakeman]

I'm sick of saying this, but if it's justified by the cost/value of the magazine, then they should be calling it a MAGAZINE, not a FAN CLUB.

Right now I agree, which factored greatly into my decision not to join at this time.

I hope in the future there is more incentives to join. Perhaps I am "high on pixie dust" or whatever, but I think there will be more reason for joining in the future.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

2. I'm not sure what you are asking. It is $15 dollars (plus tax) per issue at Barnes and Nobles--that seems to be the full price.

3. As part of the membership, shipping is included. By your logic you are actually paying $75 (in addition to the fees for currency conversion) to include shipping, the magazines, the membership card and certificate and the gift. It seems like you are getting more for your money when you look at it that way... :shrug:

But are there not discount cards, coupons, etc offered at BaN?

Also, yes they do charge for shipping outside US. It's $50 for Canada. That's $75 US + $50 US + exchange rate. I can only imagine what Disney will think up is an appropriate one, and since the magazine is the only thing that interests me I can't justify spending that much for it alone.