Any Monorail News?

[cloudboy]

Marni-

Now you are getting there. I had discussed this in an earlier post, and it too talked about one monorail line connecting all 4 parks. However, I don't think the current monorail really should even be saved. I know that involves a lot more cost to rebuild beams between Epcot and the MK, but right now the WDW Monorail is really a lightweight monorail, and if you are going to be building something to handle a lot more traffic, you need a heavy monorail. SO I actually propose starting right at the MK with a stub-end station and shoot straight along the eastern shore of 7 Seas, stop at the TTC (where you would have one of two major parking decks), a new Epcot station (with another, larger main parking deck), and then to the Studios and AK.

The current 7 Seas monorail beam would still be used to connect those resorts and the parking to the main monorail line. I would reincarnate a train line from Fort Wilderness by the Wilderness Lodge to the TTA (for theming), Use a people mover system for the Epcot resorts, and regular busses to connect Port Dixie, Saratoga, and Old Key West to the Epcot station.

Pop Century and Caribbean Beach, I would use a tram to shuttle between the resorts and Studios (they are pretty close), and another train or a safari-like tram to connect the AK Lodge to the AK station. Coronado Springs, Blizzard Beach, and All Stars are a bit far, I don't know if it would be better to connect them to AK or Studios. Studios would probably be closer and put the guests a little further ahead towards the parks, other than the station would be on the other side of the park.

 

[JML42691]

What really should have happend when Disney built AK... They should have added the monorail loop to it before it opened. I wonder if scheduling problems forced Disney to take the monorail equation out of it. I went to WDW back in 1998 right after AK opened and couldn't figure the whole deal out as to why they were shuttling passengers via buses to the place. To this day I still don't understand why the didn't go ahead and build the new line when the park was being built.

I agree with what others are saying keep the monorail strictly to parks not all resorts.

Although another way of looking at this, if Disney is going to keep branching out such as the Western Development, buses are the answer...

They were never planning on adding a monorail line to AK, and if they were they would not make it go into the park, just have it go to the parking lot and switchback like Martin said. The idea of a monorail in AK would not fit in with the theming of that park at all. The monorail fits in in Epcot because it is more of a futuristic technology (even though it is becoming a more current day form of transportation). This is somewhat why it does not enter MK but only stays outside of it (also a reason why it only goes into Tomorrowland in DL). You asking the question about them shuttling busses to this point is not all that clear. With the exception of boats (and walking but since they both go to the same spots I'll just consider them the same), the only other type of transportation for MGM is busses. There is not much else for options in means of other forms of trasportation for AK. Instead of spending several billion dollars expanding the monorail, I would much rather see a major overhaul in the bus fleet, i.e. dedicated lanes, overhead electricity wires for busses. I do not mind the busses, when I compare them to my local busses they are a great improvement. Another choice (but also a little bit expensive and more lengthy travel time) would be a series of boat canals. Link all the resorts to the nearest park by means of boat. There are many more options besides expanding the monorail lines.

 

[flynnibus]

Link all the resorts to the nearest park by means of boat.

except one of the number one complaints about the buses is how long it takes to get from A to B. Boats would increase that by orders of magnitude..

45mph on a bus.. vs 8-10 on a boat plus all the extra docking time.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I'm not sure how the busses are worse than this proposed monorail system. Take, for example, trying to get from AKL to the MK. Now I can take a bus and typically be there within 25 minutes (I would guess that is the average--sometimes you wait for a bus, other times it's right there). With this expansion, I take a tram to AK, then wait for a monorail, take the monorail to Epcot, wait for another monorail, take it to the TTC, wait for another monorail, and take it to the MK. I'm sorry, but that's obnoxious and not at all magical. 3 transfers just to get to a Theme Park...and from a deluxe resort, no less? That's not acceptable. It would take an hour to get anywhere. Any future system of mass transit for WDW will not be the monorail. $2 billion to increase wait times? You can keep your monorail expansion. I'll take the bus and actually ride the...what? what? Oh, yes. The rides. Maybe even see some shows before you finally arrive at the Magic Kingdom at 11 am after waking up at the crack of dawn. And god forbid you stay at the MK for evening EMHs til 3 am...you might as well just stay at the park gates. By the time you get back to AKL, it'll be time to hop back on the monorail so you have a chance of being at Typhoon Lagoon in time to get a beach chair...

 

[jmvd20]

Monorails are more fun to ride than buses, however busses are the quickest and most efficient way to move people at WDW for the majority of the parks, resorts and attractions. Using monorails to connect everything just doesn't make any sense.

How many stops and transfers would there have to be? What about the all star resorts. With a billion rooms each does one entire train get dedicated to each resort? If you have monorail hub stations spread out around WDW how do you get to the hub stations? Why would I walk or take a bus to a hub station, board a monorail, then get off that monorail and board another to get where I'm going?

The monorails are fun to ride but when it comes down to it buses are just a better system for WDW to use.

 

[marni1971]

Any mass transit system will have station changes; just like in the real world. One option could be to actually ditch the T&TC and have a new, centralised one at Epcot. Just like the hub and spoke concept each other `line` - imagine a line from AKL to DAK to BB to Coronado to MGM to Crescent Lake to Epcot. One line. 7 stops including temini. Then another `line` from Epcot to the T&TC but THEN to the MK. AKL to the MK - one change. Keep the resort loop for MK resorts. Travelling from the GFR to DAK would have 2 changes - one from the resort loop to the main `line`, and then stay on until you reach the end termini.

Obviously this is one example, and dosn`t take in the Village line - what is on the `main line` would be down to passenger numbers; there will have to become a day when a transit system isn`t limited to deluxe resorts only. The value resorts have the most need. It may not be for a decade, it may not be for 15 years, but management admitted several years ago the bus system has a finite lifespan and capacity.

The other argument also is it may not be a `mass` transit system at all; several systems have been looked at including smaller vehicles on a network of tracks that go from A to B direct, depending on where the occupants want to go. I doubt though the existing monorail network would be scrapped. Remember a few posts back I mentioned the now defunct Community Transport Division had designed 10 Monorail and WEDway hybrid vehicles 3 decades ago? That`s a lot of R&D already done, for high density, real world applications.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

I don't see any upside to monorails connecting any of the value or even moderate resorts. Part of the marketing of the deluxe resorts and the premium you pay is the monorail to the park, if you could get that for 79$ at all star that would take away the novelty of having it in the deluxe resorts.

 

[marni1971]

I don't see any upside to monorails connecting any of the value or even moderate resorts. Part of the marketing of the deluxe resorts and the premium you pay is the monorail to the park, if you could get that for 79$ at all star that would take away the novelty of having it in the deluxe resorts.

There isn`t any upside for the deluxes. It`s an upside for the resort World as a whole.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

There isn`t any upside for the deluxes. It`s an upside for the resort World as a whole.

Yes it would be a bonus for the value and moderate that it connect, but if you cut one of the intangibles from your deluxe your going to have to find another way to justify people paying the higher prices for the deluxe. The end result would likely be deluxes would have to cut their prices to offset the visitors ability to get monorail service at cheaper places. I don't see Disney doing anything that hurt the geese laying golden eggs and those geese are the deluxe resorts.

 

[JML42691]

except one of the number one complaints about the buses is how long it takes to get from A to B. Boats would increase that by orders of magnitude..

45mph on a bus.. vs 8-10 on a boat plus all the extra docking time.

You cut off half of that idea, right before it I said that it would take a long time in means of travel.

 

[flynnibus]

Any mass transit system will have station changes; just like in the real world. One option could be to actually ditch the T&TC and have a new, centralised one at Epcot. Just like the hub and spoke concept each other `line` - imagine a line from AKL to DAK to BB to Coronado to MGM to Crescent Lake to Epcot. One line. 7 stops including temini.

Even 7 stops is a lot. Ever riden the full resort loop all the way around? That is only 5 (edit) stops and takes forever and doesn't even go that far.

And dunno where you made up termini from.. but terminal has its own plural and singular versions. Terminal and terminals

There isn`t any upside for the deluxes. It`s an upside for the resort World as a whole.

Disney wouldn't devalue their prime properties without having something to replace that 'value'. You would be a stupid business person to do so. Notice only deluxe properties are built at the prime locations? not by coincidence

Location and transportation is part of the price justification for these resorts. You would totally errode the perceived value if you were to bring every where else up to the same level. That would be a poor business decision.

 

[flynnibus]

You cut off half of that idea, right before it I said that it would take a long time in means of travel.

I said it because while you acknowledged time, you sorta downplayed it.

The time for buses is people's #1 complaint.. while this would be a 'scenic' addition, it would be the absolute worst choice to 'solve' any problems of the buses.

 

[Scar Junior]

:sohappy: You never cease to amaze me Martin. One of your best, if I may say so myself. Thanks! :wave:

 

[ToTBellHop]

There is only one solution: allow guests to warp between parks. It works on Star Trek and the Imagineers can make it work!

 

[marni1971]

Even 7 stops is a lot. Ever riden the full resort loop all the way around? That is only 5 (edit) stops and takes forever and doesn't even go that far..

A lot by whos reakoning? Yours? It`s a mass transit system so is bound to have stops. There`s more than that on our local LRT line from Sale to Manchester. This porposal for WDW is still less than one stop per mile.

And dunno where you made up termini from.. but terminal has its own plural and singular versions. Terminal and terminals .

Where did you make up "dunno" from?

Disney wouldn't devalue their prime properties without having something to replace that 'value'. You would be a stupid business person to do so. Notice only deluxe properties are built at the prime locations? not by coincidence

I know why the deluxes are built where they are - on the other hand why are AKL and WL built in some of the most inaccessible areas of the property? Not very deulxe now are they?

Location and transportation is part of the price justification for these resorts. You would totally errode the perceived value if you were to bring every where else up to the same level. That would be a poor business decision.

Poor business decision for the over priced deluxe resorts maybe. Shame. We`re not having a hyperthetical discussion about a single resort or two. It`s a friendly chat on how to stop the entire WDW infrastructure from collapsing.

Personally I couldn`t care less right now if I had a monorail station or bus station at my resort. Alas I can`t afford a deluxe stay anyhow. I care more about the resort atmosphere, room size and getting a good nights sleep before getting to the parks in an efficient way. I do know if any company resort I stayed at had good transport links it`d keep me a) on property and b)from forsaking the Disney bus and driving to the park.

The WDW road network is turning into a real mess. Prior to 1987 the world boasted it had just 2 sets of traffic signals on property; every main intersection was above grade. Witness East Buena Vista Drive. It`s like a downtown traffic signal convention. Compare leaving Epcot to leaving MGM at park closing. The former is a breeze. The latter is a nightmare. The roads can`t carry on taking the strain - just like in the real world. The original Phase One and Five Year plans had transportation at the forefront of their ideas. It`s a shame it didn`t carry on post EPCOT Center.

 

[bob0012]

And dunno where you made up termini from.. but terminal has its own plural and singular versions. Terminal and terminals

Termini is actually the plural to terminus.

 

[flynnibus]

A lot by whos reakoning? Yours? It`s a mass transit system so is bound to have stops. There`s more than that on our local LRT line from Sale to Manchester. This porposal for WDW is still less than one stop per mile.

If you are going to improve upon the current system, you'd have to improve the 'speed' of it. Having stops like a commuter train isn't going to help (and why they have EXPRESS trains along with those commuters)

I know why the deluxes are built where they are - on the other hand why are AKL and WL built in some of the most inaccessible areas of the property? Not very deulxe now are they?

Uhh.. because that's the entire THEME of the place? To be in the wilderness.. or on the savanha!

Poor business decision for the over priced deluxe resorts maybe. Shame.

You need to stop thinking about the world from your point of view as a customer-only and look at the larger picture. You already completely discounted the deluxes based on your economic position.. that doesn't mean they don't mean a lot to other people or to the company. You are just one type of customer, you do not represent the ONLY type of customer the company should look at and forget the rest.

We`re not having a hyperthetical discussion about a single resort or two. It`s a friendly chat on how to stop the entire WDW infrastructure from collapsing.

Collapsing? Wow... the death of the WDW road system.. is exaggerated to say the least!

This place has virtually no traffic!

 

[flynnibus]

Termini is actually the plural to terminus.

Thanks.. and doesn't connect to 'terminal' so we are back to where we started

 

[cloudboy]

With this expansion, I take a tram to AK, then wait for a monorail, take the monorail to Epcot, wait for another monorail, take it to the TTC, wait for another monorail, and take it to the MK. I'm sorry, but that's obnoxious and not at all magical. 3 transfers just to get to a Theme Park...and from a deluxe resort, no less? That's not acceptable.

Or, you just take the tram to the AK, and take the monorail all the way to the MK. I don't understand why you are making connections at Epcot and the TTC.

 

[jmvd20]

Or, you just take the tram to the AK, and take the monorail all the way to the MK. I don't understand why you are making connections at Epcot and the TTC.

It's based upon the plan that was posted a few pages back.

From AK you would take Monorail Line 3 to Epcot, get off that train and then board the existing Monorail line between Epcot and the TTC. Once you arrive at the TTC you get off and board the MK Line just as it is now.