Any Monorail News?

[jmvd20]

And since they were built back when people took a little pride in workmanship I'm guessing they could easily last 40 or 50... unlike the roads in my state that seem to have a shelf life of 5 years.

Wouldn't surprise me if some of the beams last much longer than 50 years. I have seen design life of similar pre-cast products at and above 100 years, especially in areas of the country that do not have the brutal freeze-thaw cycles like we do in the north.

 

[bjlc57]

you cannot go by costs of other places..

or even previous costs at WDW Because those are START UP COSTS and not add on costs. it is always substantially less to add on then to start from scratch. One, they have the technology now to know what they need to do. They didn't when they started building the monorail in Florida. Two, Concrete is not that expensive. Its rocks and sand. and guess what Florida is full of sand.

Sorry kids but your numbers are out of whack..

and its the same for 20k under the sea.. Oh it cost too much.. Yep that's why Disneyland just reopened it..

Everyone who believes " it costs too much" stand on your head.

 

[Champion]

or even previous costs at WDW Because those are START UP COSTS and not add on costs. it is always substantially less to add on then to start from scratch.

Not 36 years later. Inflation, for one.

One, they have the technology now to know what they need to do. They didn't when they started building the monorail in Florida.

DLR's Monorail was built first. They already knew how to do it.

Two, Concrete is not that expensive. Its rocks and sand. and guess what Florida is full of sand.

Well thats good and all, but the beams were (and still would be) molded in Oregon and brought in.

Sorry kids but your numbers are out of whack..

Maybe. But the numbers presented (50m/mile are official numbers from the last monorail system built that is exactly like WDW's system, so they are the best available)

and its the same for 20k under the sea.. Oh it cost too much.. Yep that's why Disneyland just reopened it..

20k had less to do with cost and more to do with OSHA standards and handicap accessibility.

Everyone who believes " it costs too much" stand on your head.

So that we can listen to your logic? Having my head down low WOULD make it closer to where its coming from ...

 

[marni1971]

20k had less to do with cost and more to do with OSHA standards and handicap accessibility...

OSHA had nothing to do with it - the wool was pulled over top brass' eyes by middle management who were fed up with maintaining a traffic bottleneck. One of the MKs darker hours. Along with AE of course.

 

[DisneyDefenders]

It makes perfect sense...

If a person were to park their car and then park hop by means of busses, they woulld be wasting their time. When you park in the park parking lots, you save your reciet and use it to gain free parking at any of the other parks that day. And when you travel using your own car, you will probably get their at about the same time because you wouldn't have to wait for a bus. I don't mean to critisize, but your logic does not make all that much sense.

First, you're assuming that the average guest would know that they don't have to pay for parking again if they get a receipt at the first park they visit.

Second, it is possible a family may not want to waste gas traveling from park to park, and also may just not want to have to leave their Disney experience once their in a park and have to deal with traffic. Therefore, they would leave their car in the parking lot of the original park and use Disney transportation to park hop. If my log is all that flawed, then why do so many guests do this?

 

[DisneyDefenders]

A more reasonable scenario is someone is at the TTC and MK, and wants to take the Monorail to EPCOT, so they leave their car at TTC, and must come back to it later.. or vise versa.

Sorry...that scenario doesn't work b/c MK typically is the last park to close.

Someone stated that buses run to all parks until one hour after the last park closes. I'm not sure if that is correct, but I was under the impression that the busses ran until two hours after the individual park closed. For example, if AK closes at 5, last bus to there is at 7. If that's not the case, then I just learned something new.

 

[Champion]

OSHA had nothing to do with it - the wool was pulled over top brass' eyes by middle management who were fed up with maintaining a traffic bottleneck. One of the MKs darker hours. Along with AE of course.

I don't buy it. There was no way to evac a sub mid ride.

 

[DisneyDefenders]

Genious!

There is only one solution: allow guests to warp between parks. It works on Star Trek and the Imagineers can make it work!

You may actually be on to something there! In all seriousness...Transortation/Teleportation has to be possible...we just need to unlock the way to make it possible.

I really think Disney should comission a team of Imagineers to focus solely on this. Could you imagine if Disney created the first successful transportation/teleportation system!?!

:drevil:

 

[marni1971]

I don't buy it. There was no way to evac a sub mid ride.

There were plenty of ways to evac a sub mid ride - evacs were well specced. If a sub broke down in the exterior lagoon another sub would - and did - push it either into the show building or to the unload dock.

In the show building were a network of catwalks, for evac as well as maintainence. In the event of a show building evac the doors were opened and guests climbed out of the sub and onto the catwalks by means of emmergency gangplanks, and would be escorted out of the building via one of the emmergency exits. The biggest hazzard was the diesel engine fumes in the show building from subs still working. It wasn`t uncommon for the stricken sub to be kept `sealed` until all the subs ahead had left the building and the extraction system had removed their fumes before the hatches were opened. This was a lengthy and complicated 101, typical of the problems management disliked so much and another reason why they managed to convince Burbank the ride wasn`t safe.

BTW I misunderstood your original comment - I dare say OSHA was used as one of the many excuses to close the ride. Management basically distorted the truth, and lied, to convince the powers that be that 20K should be closed. However, this thread has drifted far enough

 

[Scar Junior]

... They didn't when they started building the monorail in Florida. Two, Concrete is not that expensive. Its rocks and sand. and guess what Florida is full of sand.

I thought they were built in the Northwest (I want to say Washington State) and brought down to FL. Am I mistaken?

 

[Champion]

I thought they were built in the Northwest (I want to say Washington State) and brought down to FL. Am I mistaken?

Slightly. Oregon, not Washington.

Concrete is Portland cement, water, rock, and sand. Substituting other things (or other amounts) for rock and sand can change the consistency of the concrete, and make it more (or less, if wanted) durable.

 

[flynnibus]

Two, Concrete is not that expensive. Its rocks and sand. and guess what Florida is full of sand.

Uhh.. the price of concrete (specifically) has been rising like mad the last few years driving construction prices up... and the spike is continuing. Just type 'cost of concrete rising' in Google and read to your content. One canadian report even expects another 20% increase by next year

"The price of materials such as concrete, gravel and asphalt is likely to go up 20 per cent in 2008, while the cost to lease space and hire security, and the cost of snow removal and other contractors could rise even faster, the report indicates."

and its the same for 20k under the sea.. Oh it cost too much.. Yep that's why Disneyland just reopened it..

Uhh.. its also why theirs set dormant for ages.. . The difference was they didn't fill theirs in.. leaving hope for a future. The reopening is still a probably a 100mil + project.. and that's just an 'overhall upgrade'. 20k is GONE.

 

[flynnibus]

First, you're assuming that the average guest would know that they don't have to pay for parking again if they get a receipt at the first park they visit.

Last I checked.. the 'average guest' still had a head and mouth.. and can ask any CM. Most guests do visit multiple parks, so those that took the conscious decision to DRIVE (remember.. they likely pondered driving or not) probably looked into that.

Second, it is possible a family may not want to waste gas traveling from park to park, and also may just not want to have to leave their Disney experience once their in a park and have to deal with traffic.

'waste gas'? Driving.. what.. 5 miles?

A more reasonable scenario is someone is at the TTC and MK, and wants to take the Monorail to EPCOT, so they leave their car at TTC, and must come back to it later.. or vise versa.

Sorry...that scenario doesn't work b/c MK typically is the last park to close.

Uhh.. that is EXACTLY why you do that. What are you smoking? You leave your stuff at TTC because it's at the MK and you come back to the MK at the end of the night.. and therefore your car at TTC.

Are you conditioned to think because there are buses directly at MK now that TTC isn't the same transportation option at the MK or something? For all intensive purposes... TTC *IS* the MK transportation stop. For ~30 years.. TTC was the transportation point for MK.. and it still follows the MK.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't buy it. There was no way to evac a sub mid ride.

Read this and draw your own conclusions...

http://www.20kride.com/history.html

ADA/handicap is such an over abused 'excuse' on disney websites. Disney has and had no obligation to update the subs to ADA.

 

[marni1971]

just a few mainly on topic (for once!) pointers;

The WDW monorail beams are a composite structure made especially for WED; though concrete on the outside internally they are a honeycomb like beam, providing great strength and being relativly light compared to a solid concrete beam. I`m not sure about the pillars, and obviously the foundations need to be pretty solid too - so concrete would be needed, just not in the ammounts you may think. There again, who says the foundations can`t be built with some new hybrid fill? I`m not an engineer but using half the inginuity used for phase one I`m sure something could be used to replacethe traditional mix.

As for 20K - thankfully it has gone. Wow! I said that! If it were still around it would have needed a huge update of the show. It was quite dated (as in cute) in the 70's. I agree with the management point (!) about capacity too. It was the traffic engineering nightmare of the MK. Note how already concerns are being voiced about the DLC Nemo version and its TOC. Evacs were a pain (though possible as noted above) and just one sub breaking down would almost invariably lead to a 101 for the whole ride for quite a while.

Although the thrill of riding in real water can`t be replaced, TDS' 20K with its Pan style suspended ride system and dry for wet technology (ironically R&D for that came from the Little Mermaid Dark Ride, a clone of which was destined to go next to 20K) really offers the best of both worlds. Easy to maintain and control ride system, with the illusion of being underwater. Maybe even a submerged show building facade to offer the illusion of descending under real water could work. Better yet, the Mermaid dark ride had the transition from above to below the sea worked out perfectly - something 20K TDS seems to slightly struggle with.

Ok I lied. On topic and off topic

 

[jmvd20]

or even previous costs at WDW Because those are START UP COSTS and not add on costs. it is always substantially less to add on then to start from scratch. One, they have the technology now to know what they need to do. They didn't when they started building the monorail in Florida. Two, Concrete is not that expensive. Its rocks and sand. and guess what Florida is full of sand.

Sorry kids but your numbers are out of whack..

and its the same for 20k under the sea.. Oh it cost too much.. Yep that's why Disneyland just reopened it..

Everyone who believes " it costs too much" stand on your head.

Start up and add on costs have nothing to do with the monorail expansion we are talking about at WDW. An add on would be another 1/2 mile piece of track added to an existing loop with no new trains, or sets of tracks. The fact is that this would be a start up.

Yes, I sure can use prices from other areas - that is how we in the construction industry estimate things. Take examples from what has been done before and how much it ended up costing.

Yes, concrete is made up of portland cement, sand and an aggregate - or rocks as you call it. However you are reducing one of the most complex building components in use today to a trivial standard. Those piles of sand, cement, and rocks must be mixed in precise ratios or your new skyscraper comes crashing back to the ground. When determining costs you have also forgotten some major facts - rocks weigh a lot, sand weighs a lot, cement weighs a lot, gas is expensive - therefore it is very expensive to move, store and mix the simple items that make concrete.

That simple building that mixes the ingredients of concrete - a good one is in the 10's of millions. That isn't cheap in my book, especially when the equipment is in constant need of repair and updating. Sorry but concrete isn't as cheap as you think it is.

Sorry again, but the numbers listed here for monorail construction are very much in line - not out of "whack" in the least.

Perhaps you should actually try to make sure something that you post is accurate prior to calling us kids...

 

[GarryandLindy]

Just got back. When the next park is built within the next 7 years it will have a monorail. Don't ask for sources.

 

[Champion]

Just got back. When the next park is built within the next 7 years it will have a monorail. Don't ask for sources.

This attempt at a joke falls short.

 

[unkadug]

This attempt at a joke falls short.

I don't think he's joking. He's been claiming inside knowledge of impending park construction for awhile now.


Eventually... he will be right.

 

[Champion]

I don't think he's joking. He's been claiming inside knowledge of impending park construction for awhile now.


Eventually... he will be right.

He gave a time table, 7 years. There will not be a new park opening in that time frame.

Edit: Wow. Laughable. Looked at his old posts.

So Disney is building a park "between AK and MK" that is in "Orlando and Orlando only". The Contemp DVC will have a 'monorail platform'.

And most unbelievably ridiculous, MK has a higher capacity than Epcot.

Someone needs to get new material. I would also think that someone who has sources inside the company would know that WDW is a good 20 minutes away from Orlando.