An unpleasent experience

[CleveRocks]

Also, this is a Disney board, not a place for YOU to fix your problems with racism in society. This is a place, according to board rules, that is supposed to be free of politics such as this. So, please stick to the rules.

I appreciate your comment here. Thank you for sharing your opinion in a civil manner. Seriously, that's cool. God Bless America, we are entitled to our opinions, all of us.

So to respond, I wasn't intending to break or even bend any board rules. I wasn't trying to make anything "political." I was expressing my wish that people wouldn't have to bring "political" details, such as skin color, into things when skin color had nothing to do with the rude and potentially criminal behavior (e.g., assault).

In short, I wasn't bringing something up, I was expressing my wish that something not be brought up at all.

Peace.

 

[Est1971]

Btw, I didn't see how their ethnicity was of any relevance whatsoever to your story. Just curious why you felt it was important to mention that detail. :veryconfu

I totally agree, that is the first thing that I thought of when I read this... Why did u feel the need to put that in there? How does the race have anything to do with it, really!?

 

[sbkline]

As far as the way the OP handled the situation, if I was a 16 year old and some dude's big Dad grabbed my arm, I think I would back off, too. There is a difference between being a coward vs being wise enough to know when to back off and there is a difference between "having some backbone" vs being a foolish idiot.

As far as all this race card crap, get over it and grow up, people. I'm sick and tired of people being called racist and prejudice just because their vocabulary isn't perfect.

Was it necessary to mention that they were Mexicans? No, it wasn't. Was it relevant to the story? No, it wasn't? But racist? Come on, get a grip.

I've been guilty of it myself, and many others I know (even some in my family at times), have been guilty of referencing someone's race when it is unnecessary. Such as "ya, I saw some black guy come through the checkouts at Walmart the other day..." when his skin color has absolutely no relevance to the story. It's more a force of habit than anything else. Maybe for those of you who have been brought up in the big city, where you see various races ALL THE TIME, it never crosses your mind what race a person is. But for some of us sheltered midwest, small town/country bumpkin hicks who aren't used to being surrounded by other races/cultures on a daily basis, it becomes more commonplace to notice someone's skin color/ethnicity, to the point where we note it when it isn't necessary. To be honest, I try to catch it in my own speech, knowing that it isn't the least bit important to the story that this person was black, or that that person was Mexican, etc, but for those who haven't got to that point yet, it would be nice if we could cut them some slack and not stereotype them as being secret KKK members just because their vocabulary isn't as enlightened and PC as ours is. I long for a day when race/ethnicity is as irrelevant and unnoticable as hair color, being right or left handed, etc. For example, way before Obama ever came on the scene, you have no idea how sick I had become about having to hear about getting a black President someday. And when Obama came on the scene, I was even more sick of having to hear about getting a black President. Really, he's black, folks. So what? who cares? Skin color should have no relevance in politics, or anything else. But as we continue to work towards that point, let's take into account that there are many people without a racist bone in their body who, out of force of habit, unthinkingly note skin color when it isn't necessary. There's no need to cut them down and belittle them as racists, and really no need to call them out on it....at least not in such a judegmental and confrontational way.

Of course, then there's other times when skin color IS relevant and it is STILL considered taboo to mention it. Like if there are 4 white people and one black person in a group and someone asks me "which one is Jill?" and I reply "she's the black lady". In that case, her race is the identifying factor in informing someone who she is, but unfortunately, there are still those who would think it's horrible that you just mentioned someone's race.

Really, people need to just get over it and quit trying to find predjudice in everything someone says or does. To me, to accuse the OP of predjudice, rather than giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is simply doing something out of habit is, in itself, a bit predjudice.

 

[unkadug]

I appreciate your comment here. Thank you for sharing your opinion in a civil manner. Seriously, that's cool. God Bless America, we are entitled to our opinions, all of us.

So to respond, I wasn't intending to break or even bend any board rules. I wasn't trying to make anything "political." I was expressing my wish that people wouldn't have to bring "political" details, such as skin color, into things when skin color had nothing to do with the rude and potentially criminal behavior (e.g., assault).

In short, I wasn't bringing something up, I was expressing my wish that something not be brought up at all.

Peace.

Sorry. I didn't realize that Mexican American was a skin color.

Is Irish American a skin color? How about Italian American?

 

[DABIGCHEEZ]

Didn't read the whole thread, but did you really have to say they were Mexican-Americans? Seriously?....

Can you just edit it out to avoid all of this? It's really bothering.

Well you should have.

 

[_Scar]

Well you should have.

....

sorry "da big cheez"


:shrug:


BTW, racism is not political- at all.

 

[CleveRocks]

Sorry. I didn't realize that Mexican American was a skin color.

Is Irish American a skin color? How about Italian American?

I think we both know that the OP was inferring "Mexican American" by a combination of skin tone, facial appearance, and the lack of a foreign accent. How else could they have been identified as such? I don't suspect they were wearing "My ancestors were Mexican" t-shirts.

This has taken a silly turn.

 

[CleveRocks]

As far as all this race card crap, get over it and grow up, people. I'm sick and tired of people being called racist and prejudice just because their vocabulary isn't perfect.

Was it necessary to mention that they were Mexicans? No, it wasn't. Was it relevant to the story? No, it wasn't? But racist? Come on, get a grip.

I've been guilty of it myself, and many others I know (even some in my family at times), have been guilty of referencing someone's race when it is unnecessary. Such as "ya, I saw some black guy come through the checkouts at Walmart the other day..." when his skin color has absolutely no relevance to the story. It's more a force of habit than anything else. Maybe for those of you who have been brought up in the big city, where you see various races ALL THE TIME, it never crosses your mind what race a person is. But for some of us sheltered midwest, small town/country bumpkin hicks who aren't used to being surrounded by other races/cultures on a daily basis, it becomes more commonplace to notice someone's skin color/ethnicity, to the point where we note it when it isn't necessary. To be honest, I try to catch it in my own speech, knowing that it isn't the least bit important to the story that this person was black, or that that person was Mexican, etc, but for those who haven't got to that point yet, it would be nice if we could cut them some slack and not stereotype them as being secret KKK members just because their vocabulary isn't as enlightened and PC as ours is. I long for a day when race/ethnicity is as irrelevant and unnoticable as hair color, being right or left handed, etc. But as we continue to work towards that point, let's take into account that there are many people without a racist bone in their body who, out of force of habit, unthinkingly note skin color when it isn't necessary. There's no need to cut them down and belittle them as racists, and really no need to call them out on it....at least not in such a judegmental and confrontational way.

Of course, then there's other times when skin color IS relevant and it is STILL considered taboo to mention it. Like if there are 4 white people and one black person in a group and someone asks me "which one is Jill?" and I reply "she's the black lady". In that case, her race is the identifying factor in informing someone who she is, but unfortunately, there are still those who would think it's horrible that you just mentioned someone's race.

Really, people need to just get over it and quit trying to find predjudice in everything someone says or does. To me, to accuse the OP of predjudice, rather than giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is simply doing something out of habit is, in itself, a bit predjudice.

Thanks for the good explanation. It makes good sense to me, helps me see things from a fresh perspective, and I understand what you mean (talking as a city boy, myself).

So although you haven't convinced me, you've definitely made a great case and, like I said, helped me see it from a fresh perspective.

And, by way, I agree 100% with your "Jill" example ... an obvious, USEFUL, face-value way of identifying someone when identification is what's needed.

 

[DABIGCHEEZ]

I appreciate your comment here. Thank you for sharing your opinion in a civil manner. Seriously, that's cool. God Bless America, we are entitled to our opinions, all of us.

So to respond, I wasn't intending to break or even bend any board rules. I wasn't trying to make anything "political." I was expressing my wish that people wouldn't have to bring "political" details, such as skin color, into things when skin color had nothing to do with the rude and potentially criminal behavior (e.g., assault).

In short, I wasn't bringing something up, I was expressing my wish that something not be brought up at all.

Peace.

I am sure the Athists(just for clarification.. no not me) aprreciate you using GOD in your post just the same as you appreicate the use of Mexican-American. You need to loosen the tie a bit. I mean did you really have to say GOD???

 

[jennc2001]

Jeeze people.. lighten up on the OP.

If a group of rude Polish people, or Brazilians, or Guamanians tries to cut in front of me, your damn right I am gonna mention that to. LOL :lol:

Hell, if they had a Southern US accent, I might even throw down the term "redneck". :lol: :lookaroun

Sheesh.. everyone is so uptight and PC. Ugh. :dazzle::brick:

hey hey hey now....i'm from SC and have a major southern accent but i'm not a redneck...back off!! LOL

i agree though...it wasn't a racist comment and i disagree with most everyone here...you shouldn't have let them pass you by, you should stand up for yourself and by no means EVER let someone grab you!! if you continue to let people push by you, they'll continue to think it's ok!!!

 

[sbkline]

Thanks for the good explanation. It makes good sense to me, helps me see things from a fresh perspective, and I understand what you mean (talking as a city boy, myself).

So although you haven't convinced me, you've definitely made a great case and, like I said, helped me see it from a fresh perspective.

And, by way, I agree 100% with your "Jill" example ... an obvious, USEFUL, face-value way of identifying someone when identification is what's needed.

Good to hear. :wave:

Another example I thought of is the use of the term "reverse racism". I used to use that term all the time to describe what I perceive as being preferential treatment for blacks at the expense of whites just to make up for past wrongs. However, I have since began to shy away from using that term since there is technically no such thing as "reverse racism". Racism is racism, whether you're giving black people the short end of the stick, white people, etc. The term "reverse racism" carries the implication that the only "real" racism is racism against blacks and that to be racist against whites, needs a different term. So for those reasons, I tend not to use that term anymore. Now, does that mean that someone else who continues to use that term is less of a person, or deserving of being taken to task? No, he's just using a term I myself have used, meaning the same thing that I meant by it, but simply hasn't thought through the implications of that term like I have.

And that's the problem when we assume the worst about people who make unnecessary references to a person's race. Sure, some of them may do so out of prejudice, but I think alot of people simply haven't stopped to think through what they are saying. Just because I have thought through that a person's race has no relevance to the particular story that I am telling, doesn't mean that some 16 year old kid has stopped to think it through.

And I'm not sure it's our job to call them on it. Just like if I was on the monorail and heard someone tell his wife "ya, we just left Disney Land and now we're heading over to the golf ball", it's not my place to chime in and enlighten him on proper WDW vocabulary. By the same token, I personally don't consider it my responsibility to call out a random stranger on his usage of racial descriptions where it isn't necessary. I try to set the example to my kids of not even mentioning race unless it is relevant, so they will grow up not even noticing racial differences any more than hair color differences, etc. But for me to jump in to correct some random stranger on that, in my opinion, is kind of like jumping in to correct someone on the monorail who doesn't know the Magic Kingdom from DisneyLand. :ROFLOL:

 

[DizneePhan14]

That is ridiclulous that he thought he could not only cut, but then grab your arm and complain. When he asked is there a problem and touched me i would have turned around and told him off without a problemand called him out on touching me. He's got no right to do that. And also people need to stop making a big deal about the mexican-american comment, it wasn't meant to be racist calm down

 

[Horizons1]

I think you're in denial.

Oh, yea. You can see into my head, you know what I think.

 

[hemloc]

People need to understand that it's not a racist thing, so much as a cultural thing... If you've ever been to a Walmart, Target or Burlington Coat Factory along the southwest border, you might understand...:fork:

 

[SoupBone]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Why is their color or ethnicity helpful in the story?

If he had said a family of white people ... tell the truth, wouldn't you have paused at least for a half-second and thought to yourself it was odd that he mentioned that???

Some people rely on details (even small details) in order to visualize a situation in their heads. This might not be how you deal with understanding certain things but it doesn't make it incorrect either. Details (whether or nor you use them) are used every day in reconstructing situations. I agree that for me I could have done without it but others may not be able to. The relevance of posting such information IS worthy of a discussion but not in this thread.

I'd like to add that it's a safe assumption that very few people come to these forums to be analyzed by an anonymous poster claiming to be a therapist. Unless you want to post your name, credentials, etc. here this is simply not relevant to the discussion (much like the use of the term mexican-american).

As to the OP I'm sorry your unpleasant experience at WDW happened at all. You should have notified a cast member immediately if he touched you. That is uncalled for and would have resulted in an immediate security response.

 

[Ziffell]

Welcome the Psychologist to the boards. I have to ask, and forgive my confrontational tone, but should he have waited for the gargantuan dad and then hip checked him? Would that have made him a non-coward in your opinion? I guess he would have, then, been behaving overly aggressive. The guy was trying to prevent a little loser and his family from cutting the line. Who are you to be the moral judge on here? I think the question was how you guys thought he should have handled it, not for you to make a gross judgment of his actions when you were not there. So your opinion is to either be timid or a raging animal, anything in between is unacceptable? Wow.

It's interesting that you went to the trouble of copying and pasting my post, but then completely misquoted me. I suspect you are unfamiliar with the term "passive aggressive". Your response, and what you seem believe I was saying to the OP, would indicate that you don't know what that term means. If you read the OP's description of how he handled the situation, it fits the definition of that term. By pretending not to hear the father, he was being passive and not dealing with a situation that, seconds prior, he "dealt with" by attempting to block the kid's path. That action, as well, is not dealing with the issue. But clearly the OP felt it was "big enough to matter" until the father came into the picture. Then he suddenly backed down. By the OP's own admission, he didn't feel very good about the whole situation. Again, as stated in my post, that feeling could have been avoided had he chosen one of two ways to deal with it. Choice #1 is that he could have just let it roll off as something that wasn't worth getting upset over. That's not being "timid". It would be timid if he DID let it bother him, but didn't do anything because he was afraid. Choice #2 is that he could have spoken to the family in an even tone and in a non-confrontational manner. I'm not sure how you interpreted that to mean a "raging animal" (possibly the most absurd misquote ever).

 

[CleveRocks]

I'd like to add that it's a safe assumption that very few people come to these forums to be analyzed by an anonymous poster claiming to be a therapist. Unless you want to post your name, credentials, etc. here this is simply not relevant to the discussion (much like the use of the term mexican-american).

Just to clarify...

I'm not "analyzing" anyone; and by the way, "analysis" is a very very rare activity, very few people practice "analysis." I'm not doing anything professional in this thread. I cited my work ONLY to set up the context of a story, and for no other reason ... that even in being responsible to my boss for relaying the intimate details of a family's life that I never mentioned their ethnicity because it had no bearing on how they live their lives or how I provided treatment. I did this to illustrate that in that context the family's race didn't matter, and therefore in the context of the OP's story it similarly didn't matter. If I was an accountant doing retirement planning (another situation where little details of someone's life can matter a great deal), I would have mentioned I was an accountant for the purpose of explaining the nature of what I was doing and why. That's all.

I NEVER positioned myself as doing anything here in the context of my work. Believe me, my work is but a small part of who I am, and I truly believe that when I punch the clock (so to speak) and am not working, I'm not trying to get inside people's heads.

So you completely took my profession out of context. I never put it out there as a means of saying "I know what's going on here because of my training and experience." NEVER. Not in the slightest. You'll notice that the only place I mention it is within that example, and the purpose of the example was to illustrate how little race has to matter in describing someone's life.

So you can disagree with my views all you want, but please don't say that what I do at work has anything to do with what I'm writing here.

And for the record, when I do my work, as a professional it's none of my business what someone's views of race are. As long as they're not shouting racial epithets in public (which would be potentially putting themselves in danger and thus it would be my responsibility to advise them against doing that), it's none of my business how they view race. Bigotry isn't a psychological problem.

So then you're probably saying, "Well, if it's none of your business at work, then why bring it up here?" Well, if a patient started telling me he was going to WDW for a week and is going to go to a ticket window each day that and buy a 1-day ticket each time and is buying the Disney Dining Plan and isn't making any ADRs and is planning to sleep in and not get to any parks before Noon and expects to not wait in any lines and to eat at whatever table service meals he wants, it would none of my business to comment on any of that at work, either. But here? Of course!

 

[ttalovebug]

Jeeze people.. lighten up on the OP.

If a group of rude Polish people, or Brazilians, or Guamanians tries to cut in front of me, your damn right I am gonna mention that to. LOL :lol:

Hell, if they had a Southern US accent, I might even throw down the term "redneck". :lol: :lookaroun

Sheesh.. everyone is so uptight and PC. Ugh. :dazzle::brick:

Hallejuah, common sense! :lol:

* Second Mexican-american who's not offended, for what it's worth. I know some might not find that relevent, but just saying.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

Oh, yea. You can see into my head, you know what I think.

You shouldn't even answer to these self-proclaimed political-correctness-supervisors.

 

[wm49rs]