Al Lutz: "Management must stop bending over to pick up pennies as dollars fly over their heads"

T

twebber55

Well-Known Member
GeneralKnowledge said:
I agree that a ride by no means needs to be built around an existing franchise. Many of WDW's most successful attractions are just that. I think the problem with Avatar is that they're building an entire land around a franchise that isn't actually all the popular. They'd be better off building something completely independent of a franchise than building something related to a crappy franchise with no emotional connection.
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i made a point (yesterday i beleive) it seems the people who are against are either
1. dont think it deserves a land and two rides is too many
2. think that TDO is not doing enough by only building two rides (project morpho)

when people complain about expansion (im not saying you are but in general) they complain because they dont like the expansion...for example Simpsons expanding at Uni i could care less never watched a full show in my life but the ride is awesome maybe my favorite simulator (havent been on DM missed it by a week last summer) dont get all the simpson love but obviously people like it
great ride+lots of people like the Simpsons+ good theming= success

so too avatar is to me although i liked it...i see great immersion and theming with really good rides =big success if done correctly (which you never know with our pals at TDO)

not bashing you at all... talking in generality
 
Californian Elitist

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
MerlinTheGoat said:
You and I usually get along really well, and I have a lot of respect for you (still will and I hope what i'm about to say doesn't offend you or anything). But let me ask you a question- Do you think that had Walt Disney still been alive to see WDW completed, that he wouldn't have visited and lived at the Florida property all the time (possibly even more than Disneyland)? I don't usually like to make assumptions but I think it's perfectly fair to assume that he most definitely would have.

The fact is that while Disneyland is the original, the one Walt walked and lived in, that's not the reason it's better than Magic Kingdom. At least not to me. It's better than Magic Kingdom because it has more attractions, superior versions of attractions it shares with MK (exceptions being Pooh and Splash when at their best), and not to mention it's currently being treated respectfully by the management team in charge. What if the opposite had been true though and MK had been Walt's original park and Disneyland the one built after he died? But at the same time both parks were still in the same exact physical condition they are in now (attraction roster, maintenance quality, etc). Myself at least, i'd consider Disneyland the superior park, regardless of whether Walt had walked, designed, and lived in it.

There are more than enough logical and valid reasons to prefer DL over MK, those are what should be taken into consideration for argument about what park is better. Just like how if one ride is cloned for another park, i'm not going to care if one is the original, i'm only going to care which is objectively the better ride (Paris has the best version of Pirates of the Caribbean despite being the newest). If a ride is both older AND better then yes it's superior, but being the original really has nothing to do with WHY it's better.

Much of what made Disneyland so great was Walt's imagineers, not just Walt himself. Many of them continued designing attractions for Disneyland and other parks long after he died, some very arguably more ambitious and incredible than what Walt himself did (the original rides in Epcot's Future World especially, plus Disneyland Paris and DisneySea). And I don't consider these attractions any less amazing just because they're newer and Walt himself didn't have much of a hand in them.

Nostalgia is fine and can make one feel all warm and fuzzy. But it shouldn't exist as the defining reason why one product is superior to another. The inherent and objective quality is the only thing i'd take into account here, and DL wins against MK in that regard. I definitely don't think that anything should be held against WDW just because it wasn't walked and lived in by Disney himself (there are plenty of legit gripes about the place).

Overall though i'd really just like every Disney park on earth to be treated with the utmost respect and quality that Disney himself stood for (quality I hear still exists at parks other than WDW). That's how it should be, though it will never happen at this rate.
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Thank you, I respect you too. For me, this wasn't a WDW vs DLR discussion. I don't really like those, and I wouldn't pull a move like that here. Empress definitely started that. All I was trying to do was prove to her that Disneyland and Magic Kingdom are sixteen years apart. That's it. She started saying things and I took it to heart. If you read my post again, I said "in some people's eyes...". I didn't say in my eyes. I never said which one I myself thought was better. I can't even make a comment like that. I was talking about others. And it's true. Go on MiceChat right now and ask which resort they think is better. They'll tell you Disneyland because of Walt Disney. If that's their main reason, then that's their main reason. Everyone's reason is different. I wasn't holding ANYTHING against WDW, and if you felt I was doing that, I sincerely apologize. I was just trying to shed some light and the actual truth. That's all.

No doubt Walt Disney would have done the exact same thing if he were alive at the time. If he was, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Like you said, each park deserves respect and I completely agree with that statement. Empress was being disrespectful, so I said something and I'd do it again. This was all a misunderstanding. Even 74 noticed it was turning into one of those threads, but we didn't start it. Again, I was just trying to prove the age gap between Disneyland and Magic Kingdom is sixteen years.
 
Disneyhead'71

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
Ya know, the thing that made Avatar as big as it is is simply because it's cool. It's a very "wow, cool, look at that". all my friends bought the Blu-ray just to see how good it looked on their home system. I don't care if it was the most popular or whatever. If Disney makes an environment that cool. With an equally cool attraction. I'm good.
 
ULPO46

ULPO46

Well-Known Member
Dsney was not touched by attendance drops. 2010 since has marked as Disneys highest amounts of toursit visiting the parks since the so called post 9/11 park reduction.
 
Captain Chaos

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
Disneyhead'71 said:
Just based on the number of times the word "Potter" is used on these forums alone, you would think Potter is quite popular.
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The only ones who want to say people are tired of Potter are the ones with egg on their face right now since they were screaming from the mountain tops that Potter would fail and WDW wouldn't be hurt by it, when we know the opposite is true... So, they need a new spin to WDW remaining stagnant and Universal growing by leaps and bounds...
 
ULPO46

ULPO46

Well-Known Member
So why when booking a hotel everything is booked and people are shoulder to shoulder. According to the Guiness World book of Records, which does not lie, WDW resort and Disney Parks remian #1 across the board for number of attendance. At over 17.1 million toursit visiting the Magic Kingdom alone this past year. Disney has just released that this past quarter was there largest one with over 4 billion dollars in money made. Don't believe me look it up on the Orlando Sentinels, Daily Disney Paper. Thats from the people who blew the whistle on Disney's Florida Project.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
The Empress Lilly said:
Excuse me? Might I remind you that I'm replying to your discussion with raven about historical appreciation of DL vs WDW? :confused:
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Nah, what you're trying to do is turn this into a WDW vs. DL thread on a WDW-centric forum. You opted for hyberbole and language that would insult any DL lover and, indeed, insult the park (if you can insult a park) and it's heritage. Maybe it's the holidays and all and I haven't shot anyone for a parking spot at the outlet mall this week ... yet, but I'm just not in the mood to play.
 
wm49rs

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
"So why when booking a hotel everything is booked and people are shoulder to shoulder. According to the Guiness World book of Records, which does not lie, WDW resort and Disney Parks remian #1 across the board for number of attendance. At over 17.1 million toursit visiting the Magic Kingdom alone this past year. Disney has just released that this past quarter was there largest one with over 4 billion dollars in money made. Don't believe me look it up on the Orlando Sentinels, Daily Disney Paper. Thats from the people who blew the whistle on Disney's Florida Project."

All lovely factoids as long as you remember that you're talking the Disney Parks, not WDW by itself. And as for hordes of people shoulder to shoulder, even Thanksgiving wasn't too dreadful at the parks, even with the holiday and a very large sports tournament in town. But, you have to toe the line you do, so welcome to the forum....
 
Captain Chaos

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
wm49rs said:
All lovely factoids as long as you remember that you're talking the Disney Parks, not WDW by itself. And as for hordes of people shoulder to shoulder, even Thanksgiving wasn't too dreadful at the parks, even with the holiday and a very large sports tournament in town. But, you have to toe the line you do, so welcome to the forum....
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And earn that paycheck!
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
The Empress Lilly said:
Oh, come on now. Don't behave like a hurt fan because somebody differs in opinion about your favourite park.

I'm not sure I can find them, but let me try to find some late sixties quotes that describe the eager anticipation about the Walt Disney Company taking LA's 'land' and turning that into an entire 'world' on the eastcoast. So exciting! Such a vast and bold enterprise! "Who could ever visit the Westcoast park again, except locals"?
And once WDW was build, as shiny new things go, they tend to make the old version feel obsolete. As was the case in public perception of DL and WDW in the seventies. I'm afraid no amount of playful jokes are going to rewrite history.
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Except that is exactly what you are trying to do. WDW ... the MK ... not the resort ... was never viewed as much more than a mass market caricature of DL (which is what it is to this day). ... Only when EPCOT Center was built was DL sorta relegated to a backseat role, something that didn't last long as Eisner and Wells immediately began putting money into it upon taking control of the company. But 'obsolete' ... no, DL was never viewed as that ... except perhaps by some biased East-coasters who were afraid of LA.
 

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