Al Lutz: "Management must stop bending over to pick up pennies as dollars fly over their heads"

[ADP2]

I really enjoyed Al's article. I think the underlying message is "is Disney/TDO spending money in the correct place". Disney is investing a ton of money towards the parks lately....Between Nextgen, Fantasyland, DCA/Cars Land, Avatar Land, other major refurbishments, and even as far back as Pixar Place there are billions of dollars invested here. Aquiring the intelliectual properties as well like Marvel, Lucasfilm, and Pixar sets them up for theme park investments in the future....Again, billions of dollars in investments. Saying "They aren't investing in the theme parks" is wrong. How they are investing in the parks is more of a legitimate argument.

Eisner expanded the parks and resorts....Iger's legacy will be aquisitions. Iger exits the CEO position in 2015 leaving the Avatar Land execution and operation at the feet of another top exec. That's probably a big reason why they are continuing to go forward with the project.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I grew up on the east coast, and WDW was always considered as second best to the real thing in California. I'm sorry to tell you that, but that is what the general perception was at the time. As kids we knew that our parents could not afford to take us to the real thing in California, and WDW was the next best thing as it was a copy of what was out in California. In reality that may or may not have been true, but in the North East that was the common thought.

Perceptions tend to be biased by family and background. You felt that Disneyland was the only "real" park because your family thought that. You should not try and say that "everyone" felt that way. They did not! I remember watching the Disneyland opening on TV. My childhood was wrapped around the Mickey Mouse Club and the Mouseketeers running around the park, riding the Tea Cups, etc. I never got the chance to visit DL until I was 57 years old during the 50th Anniversary. I had spent many hours visiting WDW before that and I was also very aware of the history about both parks, Walt Disney and how he connected to both of them. Never, even after my DL visit did I think that DL was superior. Yes, it did have a bigger and more impressive Small World and PoTC, but that does not make it a better place. And everyone I knew felt the same way.

I grew up around the same time and around the same part of the country. For us, the WDW announcement was big news. The local papers covered it as the new-and-improved version of DL so, naturally, our neighborhood always thought WDW was "better" and had no desire to go to "that old park in California".

The first family to head to WDW for Spring Break in 1972 was the envy of everyone else on the block.

My perception did not change in the 1980s when I finally made my first trip to DL. At that time, WDW still was the "better" Disney location. Oh my how things have changed.

Those two post sum up the degree of confusion that is indeed the West Coast/East Coast perception. Anyone's favorite park or superior park will be the one that they enjoyed the most. The one that gave them more bang for the buck. Both were the brainchild of on Walter E. Disney they cannot be separated by "his parks". They both exist because of him, both were "his park".

Reality tells you that it is easier to manage a confined location with limited room for extras. Reality tells you that to organize, maintain and even always know what is happening over 43 Square Miles is a monumental task requiring massive numbers of personnel, money and planning. The two are only comparable based on the original concept that was always one man...Walt Disney.

On the occasions that I am considered a fanboi, which btw is more of an honor than an insult, for those that are counting, I do not have a problem with it. I see problems, I weigh them against the entire picture not just the myopic viewpoint of some, and then I determine whether the sky is falling or not. Most of the time, it is not. I respect those that are "in the know". I understand that they are concerned about quality. I just don't agree that everything that they see is necessarily just a stepping stone to disaster. I prefer to base my opinions on what can be done as opposed to what I'd like to see done. My entire opinion of any park is the degree of pleasure that I get out of that particular experience. I see problems, mostly minor, but I do not look for them. I don't try and guess what management is thinking because I know what they are thinking. How do I save my butt from disaster and at the same time keep my bosses happy. We all do that no matter what profession we are in. It's human nature. Business budgets are sacred things in any business environment. You have to work with what you have. If you want to be a renegade and go away from that on your own...that's were you will be "on your own". Outside!

 

[Atomicmickey]

It strikes me, without being critical of any one poster, that one of
the reasons why the "fan voice" is dismissed by the company, is because
serious discussions of quality and direction for the parks devolve quickly
into a WDW vs. DL fan discussion.

Can't we keep it on track, and take the my park vs. your park discussion elsewhere?
Again, no disrespect to anyone's particular opinion/rationalization/justification about
which park is which, but this is why it's hard to be heard, and taken seriously. IMO.

 

[twebber55]

i think for the most part the CEO's of the world look at message boards as loony people ranting

just listen to Colin Coward everyday on espn radio

 

[nytimez]

i think for the most part the CEO's of the world look at message boards as loony people ranting

They actually do - and at least some of the time, they're right. But it's also a POV that puts some of them dangerously out of touch at other times.

 

[tomman710]

Now, maybe I misunderstood, but if you're suggesting that Mongello would suddenly change and be ... well, honest, that's never happening. And Jim Hill is thrilled at just being mentioned at all.

No, I have zero faith that Mongello would change and suddenly be honest or at least transparent. All I was saying was that for any sort of fan "movement" to gain any "real" attention it would have to have a leader with a voice. I used Lou as an example because really he'd be the perfect person to gather enough support to make noise because the amount of "Mongellions" that hang on his every word would be too large too ignore. Now of course he would never do that because like I said his income is now tied heavily to Disney (allegedly) so why disrupt the good thing he has going.

But when people talk about fan organized movements my point was they will always fail because we are too divided without a organization and a leader with recognition.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Reality tells you that it is easier to manage a confined location with limited room for extras. Reality tells you that to organize, maintain and even always know what is happening over 43 Square Miles is a monumental task requiring massive numbers of personnel, money and planning.

WDW was updated and well-maintained for its first quarter of a century, even when it was physically larger than it is today (with, by the way, lower ticket, food, and resort prices adjusted for inflation). WDW’s problems are not due to size. Its problems are due to misaligned/mismanaged priorities adversely impacting its core business.

First are the maintenance and support staff cuts initiated under Eisner in the late-1990s and continued under Iger. Delaying regular & appropriate maintenance and reducing staff makes this quarter’s numbers look great but has long-term consequences that are becoming increasingly apparent today.

Second are TWDC’s decisions to morph WDW from a vacation destination into a real estate development. Over the last 20 years, a growing amount of money, time, and effort has been spent on DVC, Celebration, and Golden Oak. Today it feels as if the theme parks are treated as a means to sell real estate and merchandise, instead of TDO’s primary business.

Both issues can be solved if TDO would refocus on the theme parks as their core business and treat them like long-term investments rather than as mechanisms to boost quarterly profits.

 

[dreamscometrue]

Well, this deserves repeating. Which is what I do continually ... to what affect, who the hell knows? Sometimes I get the feeling that being blunt and honest to the fan community means as much as the NHL lockout ... no one cares.

WDW doesn't have the same meaning to its fanbase as DLR does to its base. Don't know if it's history ... if it's size ... if it's just plain having less discerning visitors ... but there's a disconnect.

And I know I'm personally very tired of fighting fanbois who have never traveled west of Pennsylvania or beyond the borders of the USA ... or soccer moms who first visited WDW in 1996 and then came back in 2003 and were hooked ... and folks of that ilk who simply believe Mongello and Corless and Brigante and my old pal Doobie who think WDW has never been better and things like RFID chips somehow equal what UNI and SW are building.

Seems like such a wasted effort. ... Maybe Blondie and Crazy Gary and Tommy and the CPSMC (that's Celebration Place Social Media Cabal) have won the war ...

Or not!

Or maybe things aren't nearly as bad as you make them out to be. Perhaps you are predisposed to hyperbole. (Nothing that a bit of pixie dust can't cure. )

By the way, when you have a few minutes, please articulate what 'Spirited Change' looks like. I just want to be sure to recognize it when it occurs.

 

[dreamscometrue]

A great Avatar test was done back on Halloween - you can find Cars, Star Wars, Pirates, Avengers, Potter, costumes but none for Avatar. The same test can now be done at Christmas as well - going to the toy stores - no Avatar action figures, no Avatar Lego sets, no Avatar anything I can find at all. My family with my oldest being 10 - I just can't let my kids watch Avatar with all the swearing, smoking, and alien sex. It's not like I am super over protective - they have seen all the Star Wars and even the Pirate movies - all the Marvel super hero movies have been family friendly especially Avengers - we did pass on the Iron Man movies for our kiddos.

And, if Disney does build a themetically stunning, immersive, 'blue' land with an 'E' ticket and a nice scenic boat ride, shops, etc., people will flock to it, queue up for 90 min. for the 'E' ticket, spend money and have a good time. Now, some of you might write that off as a population of visitors being uninformed about what is good, naive about what's really good for them, or perhaps it'll be that way because it'll simply be a fun place to go.

 

[devoy1701]

Or maybe things aren't nearly as bad as you make them out to be. Perhaps you are predisposed to hyperbole. (Nothing that a bit of pixie dust can't cure. )

By the way, when you have a few minutes, please articulate what 'Spirited Change' looks like. I just want to be sure to recognize it when it occurs.

It works both ways. People can just as easily dismiss the condition of the resort as "not as bad as you make it out to be" as we can say "it's worse than you care to notice."

But it really shouldn't be too hard to agree that WDW could be managed better than it currently is. Or ignore the fact that TDO has put a LOT of emphasis on things like NexGen Queues and DVCs over other priorities (how long have they been "building" the Monsters Inc. Coaster or Hyperion Wharf now?)

It's almost as it there is a part of senior management in TDO that DOES care about the parks and the resort, and they wait until certain players are out of pocket to greenlight something and try to get as much done as possible until that other team realizes what's going on and puts a stop to it.

It's agonizing.

 

[misterID]

I'm torn about Avatarland. I would much, much, much rather have the MI/BK hybrid. But at the end of the day, it could be a really cool land. And Animal Kingdom needs "something." And if Avatar doesn't happen, I think it's pretty clear that the money that was set aside for Avatar will not be allocated anywhere else at WDW. It'll disappear... Or go to DLR, whichever.

 

[wedenterprises]

Do you really think that Uni cares if HP "over shadows the parks brand"...it literally put them back in the game. It brings in huge dollars. Without HP we hardly would be talking about Uni....I think they would take that trade off anyday.

no but Disney might

 

[tomman710]

And, if Disney does build a themetically stunning, immersive, 'blue' land with an 'E' ticket and a nice scenic boat ride, shops, etc., people will flock to it, queue up for 90 min. for the 'E' ticket, spend money and have a good time. Now, some of you might write that off as a population of visitors being uninformed about what is good, naive about what's really good for them, or perhaps it'll be that way because it'll simply be a fun place to go.

That may be true, but let's say just using numbers to illustrate a point these aren't actual figures, let's say in a given year DAK draws 1,000,000 guests, the Avatarland jumps that up to 1,250,000 guests, so roughly 250,000 new people come to check it out. Now how much more could you increase that number if it was Star Wars? (Again just using it as an example) ... 1,500,000 ... 2,000,000?

I think the argument most people are making is Avatar may turn out great and that's fine but it could be better, especially in terms of revenue. No one can argue that Avatar is more popular than Star Wars or would be more of a draw. I'm not saying a land or stunning E-ticket wouldn't be a draw no matter what the theme, what I am saying is it's shortsighted of TDO to say this made alot of money, that means its popular so let's build a land, while ignoring something (now in house) that would be better. Hell, even a generic beastly kingdomme would be just as popular as Avatar if done with the exact same scope and E-ticket.

 

[twebber55]

That may be true, but let's say just using numbers to illustrate a point these aren't actual figures, let's say in a given year DAK draws 1,000,000 guests, the Avatarland jumps that up to 1,250,000 guests, so roughly 250,000 new people come to check it out. Now how much more could you increase that number if it was Star Wars? (Again just using it as an example) ... 1,500,000 ... 2,000,000?

I think the argument most people are making is Avatar may turn out great and that's fine but it could be better, especially in terms of revenue. No one can argue that Avatar is more popular than Star Wars or would be more of a draw. I'm not saying a land or stunning E-ticket wouldn't be a draw no matter what the theme, what I am saying is it's shortsighted of TDO to say this made alot of money, that means its popular so let's build a land, while ignoring something (now in house) that would be better. Hell, even a generic beastly kingdomme would be just as popular as Avatar if done with the exact same scope and E-ticket.

how about do both and expand star wars where it currently is..star wars wont fit in DAK...i bet they wait until 2016 for the new star wars movies to come out before expanding the land....

 

[tomman710]

how about do both and expand star wars where it currently is..star wars wont fit in DAK...i bet they wait until 2016 for the new star wars movies to come out before expanding the land....

I agree I don't think SW would fit in DAK, I was just using it as an example ... and I agree with you, its crazy how they are incapable of doing more than one thing at the same time.

However, I think I can best some up my point this way ... I know we are just guessing but how much more of a draw is Avatar over a generic fantasy beast land if everything stays the same, meaning let's say we get a ground breaking cutting edge E-ticket, if it's Avatar themed over a generic dragon theme or whatever, does that really bring more of a draw?

I think, no.

And let's say there is added revenue from merch from Avatar, isn't that offset by the royalties you pay? So is there really a revenue advantage to Avatar over a generic fanatasy animal land?

Again I think, no.

 

[GeneralKnowledge]

a great ride is great ride to me whether its transofmers, HP, or HM
who are the great characters in POTC? none..great theming definitely

I agree that a ride by no means needs to be built around an existing franchise. Many of WDW's most successful attractions are just that. I think the problem with Avatar is that they're building an entire land around a franchise that isn't actually all the popular. They'd be better off building something completely independent of a franchise than building something related to a crappy franchise with no emotional connection.

 

[ULPO46]

Walt Disney Imagineering has not even begun to draw out the plans for the new section. They know there's a lot of preassure and negative reviews on it. With groundbreaking in less than a year. What are we to see. Harry Potter has made a big impact at universal and a new harry potter section is coming up near jaws. But people have grown tired of Harry. Disney was not even touched in attendance 17 million people contninue visiting. But Animal Kingdom still remains #1 in the largest theme park in the world. It's over 500 acres still with plenty of room to build things but it is to much on the feet. Before building avatar land Disney should consider building a train or some mode of transport to transport people around the park. It's just to big. It will be expensive the carsland project was over 1 billion dollars and now what are we to see from now with Avatar. It's a good movie but it's fake. An E.T. World that just does not look right in Animal Kingdom. Guys get ready to be paying 10 dollars more on your tickets as Disney tries to figure out a way to make ticket prices more expensive yet the parks remain full. For the first time in the 14 years that AK is open. The crowds have become very large and you can bump into people. Wow. I remeber when it used to be empty.

 

[GeneralKnowledge]

I'm not saying Pandora would be my first choice, but the IP brand isn't as weak as some are assuming. It IS the highest grossing film of all time. Merchandise sales leave much to be desired, so I'm not sure how Disney will deal with that. However, what they lack in merch sales they could make up for by keeping people in the park longer.

At the time I believe Titanic was the highest grossing movie of all time. Years down the road, it is made fun of more than loved timelessly. I see Avatar following the same path.

 

[misterID]

At the time I believe Titanic was the highest grossing movie of all time. Years down the road, it is made fun of more than loved timelessly. I see Avatar following the same path.

That's not even close to true. Titanic is considered a classic -- I'm not even a fan of the film. This attempt to diminish Avatar since it was announced for AK is all just wishful thinking. And I really don't understand it, tbh.

 

[lebeau]

At the time I believe Titanic was the highest grossing movie of all time. Years down the road, it is made fun of more than loved timelessly. I see Avatar following the same path.

What on earth could you possibly be basing that statement on?