Al Lutz: "Management must stop bending over to pick up pennies as dollars fly over their heads"

[The Empress Lilly]

Wait, what? What happened? The issue is purely whether Al posted about the changed Star Tours plans. I've already read through his columns and can confirm he didn't, which is why I asked WDW for a cite since he seems to think he did.

I've read quite a few of AL's columns too. Love him, especially his awesome atacks on TDO. No better proof of the mismanagement of WDW than his comparisons with DL, the superiorly ran park and resort.

Early on, Lutz ascribed to none other than George Lucas a 'James Cameron Quality Control' role. According to AL Lutz, it was not Burbank, but George Lucas who forced the full quality version of ST2 on Orlando.

What's interesting about that, is that apparantly Lutz has no confidence in Cameron fulfilling the same function now. Which, I think, overlooks one of the greatest aspects of Avatarland. Namely, that James Cameron has creative supervision over the project. A very demanding control freak, who loves big budgets and understands both spectacle and audience experience. Exactly what DAK is in dire need of.

 

[andre85]

What

What is your issue? That WDW was or was not going to dumb down the quality of ST2? Or that someone is not willing to find a buried post that claims the accusation? Is your argument about the cutback or, as it seems to me, you have a personal issue with '74?

And you are still completely misinterpreting the entire tangent. No, that was not my issue. Not even close. I also don't have a personal issue with '74. I suggested that Al isn't free of bias and used his portrayal of Star Tours 2 as evidence. '74 countered my claim and I asked for proof of such. That is the extent of it.

Asking for a cite ≠ personal attack.

 

[TalkingHead]

I'm spending a day of my upcoming (very short) O-Town trip at IOA/UNI myself ... and I am looking forward to having a butterbeer ... or two (frozen).

Just had one myself yesterday. The foam is so tasty. But so were the pumpkin juice and the lunch at Mythos. Talk about good sticker shock.

Table-service meal with a tasty steak sandwich, bread, and drink and tip for less than $20? Imagine how much goodwill Disney could foster if they did that.

 

[asianway]

Just had one myself yesterday. The foam is so tasty. But so were the pumpkin juice and the lunch at Mythos. Talk about good sticker shock.

Table-service meal with a tasty steak sandwich, bread, and drink and tip for less than $20? Imagine how much goodwill Disney could foster if they did that.

A lot - theyve been coasting on it for 15 years.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Table-service meal with a tasty steak sandwich, bread, and drink and tip for less than $20? Imagine how much goodwill Disney could foster if they did that.

But cunning TDO fosters goodwill with...high table service prices. By artificially raising prices of table service meals, then offering them as tremedous value with a points dining plan. Or giving it to you for free with a discount.

And the customers don't even know they're being had. ('Buy your Merchandise Plan now! Ten points for $100! Tremendous value! Get our $89,99 Duffy plush toy and $499,99 plastic dinglehopper for just two points!!')

 

[TalkingHead]

Just spent the last couple days exploring SW and the Uni parks.

You know what? SW has hands-down the best Christmas decorations and shows in Orlando. Funny how I mentioned to one of the employees that they had far more decorations than Disney. Her response: "Really? You're the second person who's told me that today."

The ice-skating show at SW (Winter Wonderland was its name, I think) was fantastic. And that was only one of five or six Christmas shows they perform for day guests.

Apropos of nothing, SW had special napkins for their Christmas celebration ("Where the Season Meets the Sea" it says at the bottom).

 

[BryceM]

Just spent the last couple days exploring SW and the Uni parks.

You know what? SW has hands-down the best Christmas decorations and shows in Orlando. Funny how I mentioned to one of the employees that they had far more decorations than Disney. Her response: "Really? You're the second person who's told me that today."

The ice-skating show at SW (Winter Wonderland was its name, I think) was fantastic. And that was only one of five or six Christmas shows they perform for day guests.

Apropos of nothing, SW had special napkins for their Christmas celebration ("Where the Season Meets the Sea" it says at the bottom).

You can tell Busch (well, in SeaWorld's case, The Blackstone Group) takes care of their parks very well. Everytime I visit Busch Gardens or SeaWorld I'm always happy with what I see.

 

[Rasvar]

You know I keep hearing this theory... but when can you recall seeing TV ads for WDW for a new attraction? heck, have you seen any TV ads for the new fantasyland? or TT2?

I saw tons of marketing for ST2 where I see most of WDW's build up for new attractions... on Radio Disney.. Disney Channel.. and billboards in FL.

Disneyland does a lot of TV spots for new entertainment offerings - but I don't see WDW doing it - only their usual generic 'come to wdw' discount ads.

People keep saying ST wasn't marketed - I say 'compared to what?'

Radio Disney, Disney Channel, Billboards in Florida. Pretty much what I said about not getting off of its own properties or advertising where it will have some impact. I live in Tallahassee, zero advertising. I spend a lot of time in Jacksonville, one ad during Star Wars Weekends.

Now I also watch a lot of Star Wars programming. Movies on Spike and shows on other networks. Wouldn't it make sense to advertise to the target audience? I know a ton of Star Wars fans who did not even know DHS had a Star Wars attraction because they had never heard about it.

So maybe they did do advertising but unless you advertise in the right places, you are just throwing money away. Disney advertises way too much on Disney Channel. As far as the knee jerk reaction, Disney over advertises in Orlando. Money would be better spent in much better national or regional campaigns. I have relatives in NJ, they see advertising for all kinds of locations in Florida. Rarely for Disney and only the generic campaigns. I talked to them last night. They were planning a trip to Universal. They had no idea that Disney had added anything recently. They didn't know about Test Track or New Fantasyland either.

Now maybe the problem is that they use a Disneyland style advertising campaign for Disney World. Cover the local area. That works for SoCal but is terrible in Central Florida.

 

[dreamscometrue]

I don't know how many times I've written the same thing. ... I'm convinced that people who pray to Mickey see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear.

WDW's attractions are falling apart.

And in 2 sentences, you've epitomized why it's hard to take you seriously; and I really try.

You seem like a knowledgeable fellow, but as you admit, you've written the same thing many times. Thing is, maybe it's you (and a small group of others) who is out of touch. You're convinced of, well what you said above, and I'm convinced that you are so anti TDO (somewhat understandable) that you cannot see anything with objectivity anymore. There likely was a time when your opinions were less clouded, but sadly that's apparently long since passed. You are the only one on here who never can say anything positive about WDW, ever. People whose opinions I respect, like Kevin Yee and Eddie Sotto, can sing praises when deserved, but you've become too jaded. I actually feel sorry for you...it must suck.

As for the 2nd comment, you further look silly because that's your predisposition to hyperbole screwing you over again. WDW's attractions are not falling apart. Splash is falling apart. Some others have issues with refurbs that people don't like, or effects turned off. Use of statements like 'falling apart', and your fav word, 'crumbling' to try to evoke images of a decrepit WDW, with a property wide post apocolytic landscape has become tiresome. I'm bored with your shtick now. You've become a caricature.

 

[Virtual Toad]

With all due respect, many parts of WDW can be seen as "falling apart," given WDWs supposed standard of excellence.

Let's see... Splash, Dinosaur, Yeti, Tree of Life (literally falling), Maelstrom, Image Works, Joysticks on Mission Space inoperative, mismatched paint in Polynesian room of Small World for several years, shabby queue in Small World, Buzz Lightyear dusty and worn out, extensive rehab on Space Mountain (covered queue) that half the guests never see because they're herded down a back hallway with peeling paint instead... worn-out monorails with extended downtime... Carousel of Progress left to rot, CBJ butchered by rank amateurs... Pleasure Island closed and left to rot for four years plus.

Couple that with ridiculously rising prices, hyperactive pre-planning, NextGen hassles and the ever-more-stressful mob scene and TDO has made quite a mess for themselves.

I love WDW but it no longer lives up to its own promises. So compared to its heyday I'd say "falling apart" is a pretty fair description.

 

[dmc493]

I'm not sure if any of you also read the permits thread, but here's a little tid bit courtesy of danlb_2000

"While going through the notices of commencement on the Orange County public records web site I ran across another interesting type of document, construction liens. These are particularly interesting because they show how much Disney is paying contractors for various projects. Here is a recently sampling.​

​

​

Nassal Company, Fabrication & Installation of Character Icons for Art of Animation, Total: $1,711,879.​

Premus of Orlando/JCB Construction, Install ucrete flooring system, labor and materials for Fantasyland Area Development, Total: $29,880​

Central Environmental Services, Inc, Demolition of Dumbo Ride Ring, $410,859​

ERMCO of Florida, electrical contracting for Tomorroland Bridge, $23,164​

Bruns Inc, Instllation of icons and application of finished for Art of Animation, $210,591​

Mark's Custom Kits, Inc, Fiberglass design, fabrication, assembly and installation at Country Bear Jamboree, $134.000"​

​

Disney puts enormous amounts of money into its parks. People just don't realize that it costs around this much... Now alot of it is New Fantasyland but there is also some costs that are huge and no one realizes. Almost half a million for removing old dumbo? you can't just bulldoze an old ride.. So give them time to catch up.. I'm sure they've got plently planned after they're done with new fantasyland.

 

[celluloid]

That excuse is invalid because parks that make literally half of attendance and likely less guest spending for their parks are putting so much more back into them. There is a ratio there that is much better investment wise than what Disney gets back. There should be a new Ticket, maybe not an E all the time but some sort of new ticket every two years at a park like MK.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Sorry, folks, but Lutz (who is once again wrong and has NO well-placed sources at all) DOES have a vendetta against WDW and it shows.

He continues to kill his own credibility with his overly-snarky and negative attitude.

You would be surprised to know who Al's sources are.

The biggest problem may be that this appears to be the only major project on the immediate horizon for a resort that desperately needs to be freshened up with more new attractions and a major investment in infrastructure. Walt Disney World over the next decade will face some formidable competition from neighboring attractions. Queue enhancements, while nice, can’t compete with new rides. The Resort’s bus transportation system is in dire need of an upgrade or reconfiguration throughout the property. Current management must stop bending over to pick up pennies as dollars fly over their heads.

What's funny is that Disney is spending money on infrastructure, but in many people's opinions it's the wrong infrastructure. Next Gen is primarily an infrastructure improvement. IMO, nearly everything that isn't a Restaurant, Shop, or Attraction should be considered infrastructure for Disney, it's the cost of doing business. This includes things like meet and greets, interactive queues, general theming/beautification of an area, and even napkins, plates and cups. Instead Disney looks at everything like it's a profit center. This started back in the day with attractions always ending up in a gift shop but it's evolved into something more. Now those gift shops don't always sell items from the attraction, but generic merchandise. The One Disney mantra is routed so deeply in Disney World and it's been to the detriment of the parks. There are reasons why much of this has been fought by Disneyland. There's a reason why John Lasseter pushed so hard to make Carsland what it is. There's a reason why Tokyo doesn't have these problems. It's because quality sells.

Whether people are conscious of it or not, the level of quality is slipping. The reason why so many of us romanticize Disney is because of that quality, and it's that quality that brings us back year after year. When that quality goes away, when that "next level" of family entertainment deteriorates, then the parks are no longer romanticized. Adults will no longer want to go on an uber scheduled $7K family vacation because they don't see $7K worth of quality. The see declining park maintenance, cut corners, and attractions that no longer amaze.

Gone are the days where Disney World is an area of wonderment. Where guests were truly impressed by the technology and the break from reality. The world has moved on, and Disney doesn't seem interested in playing catchup.

 

[celluloid]

The only game Disney wants to play is Rollercoaster Tycoon with real people. That is what NextGen is. You will get a pretty solid idea of how much guests have spent and are willing to spend at each park. What ride they are headed towards and what attractions they are more likely to go on. A marketing/business analyst's dream. The focus is all for profit, no for show.

 

[Hakunamatata]

There are reasons why much of this has been fought by Disneyland. There's a reason why John Lasseter pushed so hard to make Carsland what it is.

Interesting comment. We went to Disneyland last June and the kids loved it as much if not more than WDW.....and we were there before Carsland opened....We were thinking of going back to WDW in 2014, but are really giving hard thought to going back to Disneyland for a number of reasons:

- You can see most of the big named attractions in DL in two parks vs 3 or 4.
- Carsland and World of Color can't be found in Florida.
- Classic attractions like Mr. Toad, Snow White, Pinnochio, Alice in Wonderland.
- More economical.

If DL were to somehow add that third gate, they would really take the focus off WDW for quite a few regulars....

 

[Captain Neo]

The problem with Star Tours 2 is that it came out way too late. Had it come out before or immediately after the Star Wars Prequels were still hitting theaters and before Harry Potter land like it was supposed to it would have been a much bigger success. Reopening Star Tours with some new films just isn't good enough when a year earlier Universal set a new theme park standard in North America with Harry Potter.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I'm not sure if any of you also read the permits thread, but here's a little tid bit courtesy of danlb_2000

​

"While going through the notices of commencement on the Orange County public records web site I ran across another interesting type of document, construction liens. These are particularly interesting because they show how much Disney is paying contractors for various projects. Here is a recently sampling.​

Nassal Company, Fabrication & Installation of Character Icons for Art of Animation, Total: $1,711,879.​

Premus of Orlando/JCB Construction, Install ucrete flooring system, labor and materials for Fantasyland Area Development, Total: $29,880​

Central Environmental Services, Inc, Demolition of Dumbo Ride Ring, $410,859​

ERMCO of Florida, electrical contracting for Tomorroland Bridge, $23,164​

Bruns Inc, Instllation of icons and application of finished for Art of Animation, $210,591​

Mark's Custom Kits, Inc, Fiberglass design, fabrication, assembly and installation at Country Bear Jamboree, $134.000"​

Disney puts enormous amounts of money into its parks. People just don't realize that it costs around this much... Now alot of it is New Fantasyland but there is also some costs that are huge and no one realizes. Almost half a million for removing old dumbo? you can't just bulldoze an old ride.. So give them time to catch up.. I'm sure they've got plently planned after they're done with new fantasyland.

I appreciate you reminding everyone that operating WDW is expensive but perhaps what you don't realize is WDW takes in millions every day, 365 days a year. MK alone averages 46,000 per day. Between parking, ticket, food, and merchandise, let's assume the average guest spends $100/day. That's $4.6M per day from MK alone and does not include WDW's multitude of revenue streams. The amounts you mention are proverbial drops in the bucket.

You have to look at historical data to fully appreciate the current situation. Average park attendance used to be lower, perhaps 30,000 per day. Ticket prices were one-fourth, yes, one-fourth what they are today, adjusted for inflation. Back in "the good old days", WDW was adding a constant stream of new attractions and even entire theme parks. WDW kept a much larger maintenance staff. WDW did not have the sophisticated means of extracting money from guests that it has today. We old timers remember when Main Street USA was more about creating a semi-authentic experience of turn-of-the-century Americana rather than what it is today, a giant Walmart. Only 2 onsite resorts. No DVC. No DTD. Yet somehow WDW managed to turn a respectable profit. In fact, during the lean years (circa 1970 to mid-1980s), WDW and DL pretty much kept the rest of TWDC afloat.

Yet with much higher prices, better attendance, multiple onsite resorts, truckloads of food & drinks sold, DVC, enough merchandise to make most mid-size retailers jealous, pressure on the labor force to keep costs down; yet with all these financial advantages, TDO can't keep chunks from falling off the Tree of Life or Splash Mountain, the Yeti working, or replace light bulbs at the Grand Floridian.

Adjusted for inflation, Walt Disney's annual compensation in the 1960s was about $1M. I wonder how many pencil pushing mid-level executives collect that today at TWDC.

Their own history has shown TDO can do more for less. If they're not maintaining those standards today, it's because they are either incompetent or more concerned with their annual bonuses than the business they are being paid handsomely to run. Either way, TDO gets no sympathy from me.

I've been a big fan of WDW for most of my life. All I'd like is for WDW to be as good as it once was.

 

[BryceM]

The problem with Star Tours 2 is that it came out way too late. Had it come out before or immediately after the Star Wars Prequels were still hitting theaters and before Harry Potter land like it was supposed to it would have been a much bigger success. Reopening Star Tours with some new films just isn't good enough when a year earlier Universal set a new theme park standard in North America with Harry Potter.

Universal set the new theme park standard with the opening of Islands of Adventure, not just Harry Potter.

But I see where you're going. Star Tours 2.0, while great, has not had the impact that The Wizarding World of Harry Potter has because people don't say, "Hey, we are big fans of Star Wars so let's go check out a ride that's just been re-done at Disney". They do say, "Hey, we are big Harry Potter fans, lets go check out Hogsmeade Village, see Hogwarts, get some Butterbeer and ride that amazing ride in Hogwarts". A whole land does not compare with a single attraction that has just been re-done in HD. Especially since Harry Potter appeals to way more people these days than Star Wars (particularly teens).

So yes, I completely agree with you. Hahaha.

 

[dreamscometrue]

With all due respect, many parts of WDW can be seen as "falling apart," given WDWs supposed standard of excellence.

Let's see... Splash, Dinosaur, Yeti, Tree of Life (literally falling), Maelstrom, Image Works, Joysticks on Mission Space inoperative, mismatched paint in Polynesian room of Small World for several years, shabby queue in Small World, Buzz Lightyear dusty and worn out, extensive rehab on Space Mountain (covered queue) that half the guests never see because they're herded down a back hallway with peeling paint instead... worn-out monorails with extended downtime... Carousel of Progress left to rot, CBJ butchered by rank amateurs... Pleasure Island closed and left to rot for four years plus.

Couple that with ridiculously rising prices, hyperactive pre-planning, NextGen hassles and the ever-more-stressful mob scene and TDO has made quite a mess for themselves.

I love WDW but it no longer lives up to its own promises. So compared to its heyday I'd say "falling apart" is a pretty fair description.

First things first..welcome to the boards.

Over the years, we've had hundreds (thousands) of these posts where one person makes a list of 'falling apart stuff', while the other makes a list of all the great stuff, and whoever has the longer list thinks they've convinced the other that they are correct. I've been involved in many myself. It doesn't work though. I've been on here 7 and a half years and I don't think many people have changed there opinion based on these evidencial arguments. I think that there are very few things wrong, some of your examples are a stretch (dusty?) and others are personal opinion (CBJ), but I won't change your mind, and you won't change mine. We simply see things differently, and that's practically impossible to change. I don't see issues around the house my wife sees, and after 24 years, we don't see the same stuff. (A guy wrote a book years ago about this phenomenon...'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus'. I'm writing a similar one right now as a matter of fact...called: '74's from Mars, JT's from Venus'...destined to be a best seller. )

So, let's look forward. I'm optomistic. Actually, let me preface this by saying that I think TDO the past 10 years has done the worst maintenence since the park opened, but I completely disagree with the 'falling apart' label. I think overall, things look great. But, why am I optimistic going forward? Several reasons...

• I believe things go in cycles. Our city had the oldest, crappiest arena in the early 70's, then we got a new one and had the best, now it sucks because it's 40 years old, but soon we're getting a new state of the art one. WDW was arguably on top of the Disney Theme Park World, but a few years back, I imagine conversation like this...(all fictional participants in Burbank in one set of quotations)...

"Alright, what have we got to do the next few years? Look, DCA sucks and needs a billion plus dollars; and we've got those billion dollar cruise ships too, and more stuff at DL. Damn! What about WDW? WDW will be okay to coast for a few years. We'll (and some sponsors perhaps) put some money in of course (HM queue, SM, new FLE, Tangled, CBJ, Tiki, TT2.0, SotMK, Splitsville, next gen, Wi-Fi, tons of unseen to guests dollars replacing A/C, doing upgrades, etc.) but it can't be our priority for 5 years at least. Makes sense." Now, WDWs turn will start to come 'round.

• Reputable people on here have said there will be changes at TDO in next year or so.

• Very, very reputable people have said Iger, Lassiter and Staggs demand quality, and are aware of issues at WDW and competition from Uni.

• Avatar in some form will add to DAK, and more very reputable people have said Carsland/Pixar expansion is coming.

I think WDW is at lowest point and will start a 5-10 year trend of improvement and some expansion. Having said that, I think we came through this 'low point' relatively unscathed. WDW, imho, still has the good far outweigh the bad, and is just beginning an ascension that will only increase exponentially as we get to the 50th anniversary.

 

[Goofyernmost]

With all due respect, many parts of WDW can be seen as "falling apart," given WDWs supposed standard of excellence.

Let's see... Splash, Dinosaur, Yeti, Tree of Life (literally falling), Maelstrom, Image Works, Joysticks on Mission Space inoperative, mismatched paint in Polynesian room of Small World for several years, etc.

You didn't really think you were flying that thing did you? Those joysticks never did do anything except give you something to hang onto while you pretended you had control.