Al Lutz: Carsland for WDW, FLE not Bringing in Guests

[Disneyhead'71]

I think its funny that people around here talk about Universal like its about to be the top tier theme park in the world or even getting close to it. They did one amazing thing in Harry Potter and we all know a lot of that was due to the control that Rowling had. She wanted so much control that Disney passed on the idea. Harry Potter is amazing, no doubt, but then I see a photo like this and its essentially a show building with some paint on it and cutouts of Transformers. Where is the attention to detail they learned from the success of Potter? The ride itself is also a clone of Spider-Man with different characters. Im just not buying into the idea that Universal is becoming the end all be all of creating entertaining experiences in theme parks.

I made my first visit to Universal last year and I have to say that other than Potter, the whole place felt very Six Flags-ish to me. They have dated characters like Popeye and Dudley Do Right in place of Six Flags' Looney Tunes. Exposed coasters and thrill rides like Dr Doom and Hulk with queue lines that have very little to look at and are the epitome of what I can't stand about Six Flags' queue lines. The ride props and such are just very cheap looking ( ie. the large crate above your head on Jurassic Park that "falls" looks like its plastic and does not convey a sense of weight or danger ). And then you have all the outside food establishments which mimics Six Flags / Johnny Rockets. In my view, Harry Potter makes the whole rest of the park look cheap.

Now Im not saying by any means Disney is perfect as it is not and there are A LOT of things that need to be done around property, but unless Universal tears up its whole park, sans Potter, and rebuilds everything on par with the Potter expansion, they will never beat Disney. I think right now they are competing because of Potter and the fact that Disney isn't adding anything to its parks ride-wise, but if Disney decides to start building, I think Universal will take a huge hit.

I think IOA already has some great themeing. And I don't get the Six Flags comparison at all. I simply think a lot of people have "Disney Blinders" on. Cat in the Hat is far superior to a lot of the Fantasyland dark rides including the brand new Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid. And the themeing of Seuss Landing as a whole is fantastic. I think that Jurassic Park has a ton of great themeing. Poseidon's Fury is fantastically themed as is Mythos. Dr. Doom's is better themed than Maliboomer was. But to say that Toon Lagoon looks anything like a Six Flags is simply ignorant.

Six Flags:

Dudley Do Right Ripsaw Falls:

I just think a lot of Disney fans just can't get past seeing coaster track. They don't understand the concept of "Impressionism" as an art form. If Disney fans were art fans the only artist they would like is Rembrandt. And they would HATE Claude Monet. Or Bach vs Debussy.

Then Disney fans love to point out that Universal has games. Ummm:

Oh, is that coaster track I see?

 

[rael ramone]

For the past decade they have been artificially inflating occupancy by taking large blocks of rooms out of inventory:

Example:
a) closing French Quarter after 2001
b) taking buildings out of service at All Star primarily the Jazz Buildings, Broadway, and Hockey
c) taking floors out of service at some of the Deluxe properties

Please feel free to correct any of these statements. But it is widely accepted in the industry that you take WDW occupancy percentages with a whole bag of salt.

And they use the DDP to take blocks of TS tables out of inventory.

Next they'll probably use MM+ to take attractions out of inventory (Oh, nobody booked CBJ - lets close it today, but we need to keep Stitch open to absorb all the Space Mountain bounces).

 

[twebber55]

people who claim IOA is similar to Six flags is either uninformed or so filled with pixiedust they cant seem to be logical

 

[HMF]

I think IOA already has some great themeing. And I don't get the Six Flags comparison at all. I simply think a lot of people have "Disney Blinders" on. Cat in the Hat is far superior to a lot of the Fantasyland dark rides including the brand new Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid. And the themeing of Seuss Landing as a whole is fantastic. I think that Jurassic Park has a ton of great themeing. Poseidon's Fury is fantastically themed as is Mythos. Dr. Doom's is better themed than Maliboomer was. But to say that Toon Lagoon looks anything like a Six Flags is simply ignorant.

Six Flags:

Dudley Do Right Ripsaw Falls:

I just think a lot of Disney fans just can't get past seeing coaster track. They don't understand the concept of "Impressionism" as an art form. If Disney fans were art fans the only artist they would like is Rembrandt. And they would HATE Claude Monet. Or Bach vs Debussy.

Then Disney fans love to point out that Universal has games. Ummm:

Oh, is that coaster track I see?

Both of those things are examples of Lousy Imagineering.

 

[threeyoda]

Both of those things are examples of Lousy Imagineering.

I'll agree with you on that with DinoRama. But Paradise Pier and the exposed roller coaster track is perfect. The area is themed to a early 20th century seaside pier, and the roller coaster with the supports made to look like wood (at least on the hills) fit perfect in the area.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I'll agree with you on that with DinoRama. But Paradise Pier and the exposed roller coaster track is perfect. The area is themed to a early 20th century seaside pier, and the roller coaster with the supports made to look like wood (at least on the hills) fit perfect in the area.

Themeing a coaster to look like a coaster is lazy imagineering at best. And I think you are the first person that I have ever heard use the word perfect in reference to Paradise Pier. And I have a better idea on how to get it to look like a wooden coaster. Build a freaking wooden coaster. Besides, California Screamin'' superstructure doesn't even look like a wooden coaster. It's just painted white.

 

[Captain Neo]

Eisner's finest

the fact that this is even in a Disney park sinks there quality to near six flags levels.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

I think its funny that people around here talk about Universal like its about to be the top tier theme park in the world or even getting close to it. They did one amazing thing in Harry Potter and we all know a lot of that was due to the control that Rowling had. She wanted so much control that Disney passed on the idea. Harry Potter is amazing, no doubt, but then I see a photo like this and its essentially a show building with some paint on it and cutouts of Transformers. Where is the attention to detail they learned from the success of Potter? The ride itself is also a clone of Spider-Man with different characters. Im just not buying into the idea that Universal is becoming the end all be all of creating entertaining experiences in theme parks.

I made my first visit to Universal last year and I have to say that other than Potter, the whole place felt very Six Flags-ish to me. They have dated characters like Popeye and Dudley Do Right in place of Six Flags' Looney Tunes. Exposed coasters and thrill rides like Dr Doom and Hulk with queue lines that have very little to look at and are the epitome of what I can't stand about Six Flags' queue lines. The ride props and such are just very cheap looking ( ie. the large crate above your head on Jurassic Park that "falls" looks like its plastic and does not convey a sense of weight or danger ). And then you have all the outside food establishments which mimics Six Flags / Johnny Rockets. In my view, Harry Potter makes the whole rest of the park look cheap.

Now Im not saying by any means Disney is perfect as it is not and there are A LOT of things that need to be done around property, but unless Universal tears up its whole park, sans Potter, and rebuilds everything on par with the Potter expansion, they will never beat Disney. I think right now they are competing because of Potter and the fact that Disney isn't adding anything to its parks ride-wise, but if Disney decides to start building, I think Universal will take a huge hit.

But to be fair you do sound like a bell end.

 

[djkidkaz]

people who claim IOA is similar to Six flags is either uninformed or so filled with pixiedust they cant seem to be logical

Universal Hulk Queue:

Six Flags latest coaster XFlight:

Disneys latest coaster Everest:

Which of these things, is not like the other....

Remember that as a kid. Yeah, I guess Im snorting pixie dust because Uni and Six Flags look like they fit together pretty perfectly.

 

[flynnibus]

You have to remember that Universal Studios Hollywood is a movie studio first, theme park second. The studio has been there since 1913 or 1914, and the theme park came sometime in the 60s. There's no space to build show buildings like the ones you see at Disney.

Yeah - but the same doesn't apply to USF.. and the same principles are being applied there all too frequently too.

I think Disney can learn something from Universal. For example, how to build a proper movie studio park with a decent and real backlot.

Disney did a decent job with DHS initially - they just learned the hard way you can't just say 'movies will be made here!' and do so effectively.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Yeah - but the same doesn't apply to USF.. and the same principles are being applied there all too frequently too.



Disney did a decent job with DHS initially - they just learned the hard way you can't just say 'movies will be made here!' and do so effectively.

Oh okay, I wasn't aware USO was doing the same thing.

Yeah, I'm not impressed at all with the "studios" part of DHS.

 

[BryceM]

Universal Hulk Queue:

Six Flags latest coaster XFlight:

Disneys latest coaster Everest:

Which of these things, is not like the other....

Remember that as a kid. Yeah, I guess Im snorting pixie dust because Uni and Six Flags look like they fit together pretty perfectly.

Yes, because using the outside, extended queue is really a fair comparison.

 

[RandomPrincess]

Universal Hulk Queue:

Six Flags latest coaster XFlight:

Disneys latest coaster Everest:

Which of these things, is not like the other....

Remember that as a kid. Yeah, I guess Im snorting pixie dust because Uni and Six Flags look like they fit together pretty perfectly.

You can find pictures of Disney outdoor extended queues that look like that too.

 

[Lee]

Which of these things, is not like the other....

Remember that as a kid. Yeah, I guess Im snorting pixie dust because Uni and Six Flags look like they fit together pretty perfectly.

To be fair, Uni has some great queues, too.
Dragons, Mummy, Forbidden Journey, ET, MiB, Spider-Man, etc.
Focusing on the outdoor overflow queue of Hulk is a bad example. Like looking at the outside queue of RnRC.

The problem is when the queue is as good as the ride. (I'm looking at you Kali, Mermaid, Everest...)

 

[BryceM]

Universal Hulk Queue:

Six Flags latest coaster XFlight:

Disneys latest coaster Everest:

Which of these things, is not like the other....

Remember that as a kid. Yeah, I guess Im snorting pixie dust because Uni and Six Flags look like they fit together pretty perfectly.

it's a small world queue:

Peter Pan's Flight queue:

 

[Lord Pheonix]

Luigi's basement/equipment

whats this? i went to dl last sept and saw carsland and didnt see this. luigis seemed like it was just a building/gift shop

 

[Jane Doe]

It's not a question of "beating Disney", its a question of whether Universal will offer a product that draws enough people away from WDW to cause Disney some serious pain. Disney's numbers to do not have to drop to anywhere near Universal's before they start getting into financial trouble.

Exactly. In our last trip two week trip over the pond we had a seven day cruise with seven days in Orlando which was split between two days at Universal and five days at WDW. Last year was my better half's first trip to Orlando and she wanted to return to Universal this time because she enjoyed it so much and she wanted to return to WDW to see all the things she didn't manage to catch last year due to time restrictions or the fact that they were closed for maintenance. In our planning for next year's winter trip we are looking at a week's cruise yet again and seven days to fill in Orlando. Once again my better half wants to visit Universal as Transformers will be open and hopefully The Simpsons expansion will be finished, but she says that as WDW will have nothing new to offer plus the added complication of wrist bands she says we should probably give it a miss and, rather sadly, I tend to support her position. Now in all my previous trips to Central Florida I've never been to Busch Gardens and Legoland looks a good fit for my youngest son. We tend to stay at the Springhill Suites at Seaworld, which as a partner hotel gives you FOTL at Seaworld so that could be worth checking out, as is Discovery Cove which is also round the corner.

WDW has taken for granted for far too that those guests will just keep on coming back, but people are wanting something new for their hard earned money and they are finding other suppliers for their holiday fun, and those suppliers are more than happy to give it to them. The biggest disappointment is that rather than fight back with something bigger and better (which when Potter was announced by Universal we all seemed to wait with bated breath for WDW's response) all WDW has done is decide to hold, and they are going to hold for the considerable future too, and having a new way to pay for things isn't going to persuade many people to part with a few thousand pounds and sit on a plane for nine hours.

Now the Disney Cruise Line, there's something to stir the soul...........

 

[flynnibus]

whats this? i went to dl last sept and saw carsland and didnt see this. luigis seemed like it was just a building/gift shop

The air hockey table for Lugi's required a huge pit and lots of infrastructure below ground level. It's a big concrete box sunk below ground level - you don't see it in the finished product.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Universal Studios Hollywood's Transformers' awesome queue:

 

[Lee]

Oh, yeah...that just screams Six-Flags.