Al Lutz: Carsland for WDW, FLE not Bringing in Guests

gonnichi

Well-Known Member
I always get so depressed when I see something from Tokyo Disney Sea. I just dont think I want to go to WDW anymore when I see what should be done at WDW. I cant justify going to WDW just to see the new Capt Jack Sparrow show, new meet and greets, and Little Mermaid ride. I hate whats become of the place I use to love. I need some help getting my love for WDW back.
 

Captain Neo

Well-Known Member
After seeing those Tokyo videos I cannot understand for the life of me why anybody on this forum would go to Walt Disney World until SERIOUS changes take place. Your paying top dollar to ride old broken down attractions that get minimal maintenance if even that. It's the true definition of a tourist trap. What was once a terrific vacation destination and a symbol of exceptionalism has become practicaly a scam operation at this point.
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Read the whole thread and I have a query. Any chance Luxo Jr is coming back? I don't really know the story about why it left. I just assumed it cost money to maintain and was thus not part of the current business model.
 

novawildcat18

Well-Known Member
Read the whole thread and I have a query. Any chance Luxo Jr is coming back? I don't really know the story about why it left. I just assumed it cost money to maintain and was thus not part of the current business model.
I'm pretty sure it had to go for legal reasons. Pixar was sued for the use of the Luxo brand or something like that. I never got to see it, I wish I had. That AA looks impressive.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Yeah, Sinbad is better than Splash although I'd look at it as a 1A, 1B kind of mentality since all of their attractions are kept up to the highest quality standard by OLC. The score done in this attraction by the musical genius Alan Menken does really blow you away and put you in awe/tears. A trip to TDL anyone?:)

Sinbad looks great - but isn't that popular of an attraction. Looks aren't everything...
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Peter Pan's Flight is the oldest looking piece of $#!& in any of the parks. Yeah, I know that's harsh but it needed an upgrade 20 years ago. It has World of Motion era animatronics, and if it wasn't for the ride vehicles/system it wouldn't be fit to be in a six flags. It is the most overrated attraction in all of Walt Disney World.

Winnie the Pooh has low function animatronics as well, and while the movement of the vehicles is a cool effect it's still not the same level of attraction as The Seas With Nemo and Friends, let alone Little Mermaid.

I don't understand fanbois. They complain about screens, and demand more animatronic driven rides. Then when an attraction has the 10 best animatronics in that park outside of Pirates of the Caribbean and Stitch's Great Escape. Journey of the Little Mermaid isn't a revolutionary ride, it's not an E-ticket, and it will never be on par with Forbidden Journey, but it is the best ride in Fantasyland.

As for the plot of the ride, is it any less "muddled" or accelerated than Peter Pan's Flight? It's a 6 minute dark ride attempting to tell the story of a 90 minute movie. Stop focusing on what you (and others) view as the failures of Little Mermaid, that it failed to tell the entire story of the movie. There has never been a Disney dark ride that has successfully done this without taking some liberties. Yes, there isn't an epic battle between Triton and Ursula at the end of the ride - but how is everyone waiving at the end of Mermaid any different than Peter Pan smiling at the wheel of the ship? Aren't those animatronics plasticy looking too? At least the mermaid ones have fluid motion.

If you want to complain about Mermaid, complain about all the stuff that's already broken (or just never turned on), but to compare it to a ride that looks it's age like Pan just screams of snorting the nostalgic pixie dust.
That’s the first time anyone has suggested that I was one of the “fanbois” “snorting the nostalgic pixie dust”. Hopefully you’ve read enough of my posts to recognize this is not the case. In the future, I respectfully suggest an argument comes across stronger when such inflammatory language is not used.

Please recall this discussion started because a third party suggested FLE was a waste of space. You took exception to that as hyperbole. More on that in a moment.

As one of the points defending that person’s opinion, I wrote MK has a dozen attractions better than JotLM. Furthermore, I suggested JotLM was not even the best attraction in Fantasyland. In response, you mentioned Philharmagic (my favorite in Fantasyland) and IASW as possible candidates but, to me, you appeared generally dismissive of the idea that anything other than JotLM was the best attraction in Fantasyland. I, in turn, suggested even attractions such as Peter Pan and Winnie the Pooh were better. Our posts represent opinion and, as such, are a matter of subjective interpretation. You might consider JotLM to be superior. I might consider Peter Pan to be superior. On topics such as this, we both are entitled to opinions without being subjected to name calling.

I agree Peter Pan badly needs a refurbishment. It its defense, it has taken 40 years for Peter Pan to reach its current state. Regardless of condition, its show elements are still as appealing today as they were decades ago when the attraction first opened. Its “pirate ship in flight” presentation is intriguing while its use of subdued lighting contributes to the overall dream-like mood and focuses attention on the ride’s show elements. Taken as a whole, Peter Pan holds up well after 40 years and still impresses many first-time riders. Although Peter Pan desperately needs TLC, in my opinion (and we are just discussing opinions) I’ll gladly take a brand-new Peter Pan over a brand-new JotLM. But JotLM’s queue is better.;)

JotLM has managed to reach a state of disrepair in just a few months. Yes, JotLM is a waste of space. JotLM, opened last year, is based on Disney’s overused 1960s Omnimover technology. Yes, JotLM is a waste of space. JotLM, with its confusing narrative of a well-known and beloved “modern classic” muddles its story, something Disney used to excel at. Yes, JotLM is a waste of space. (Eric’s defeat of Ursula was the attraction’s one chance to inject some excitement into what otherwise is a rather dull ride.) IMHO, JotLM will never become a “classic” attraction like the similarly low-tech HM, PotC, Jungle Cruise, or Peter Pan. In 10 years’ time when JotLM falls into a state of disrepair echoing so many other WDW attractions, I suspect we’ll all be agreeing that JotLM is a waste of space.

No private company spends $450M without expecting significant ROI, certainly not TWDC with its recent obsession with ROI, and TDO spent approximately $450M in an attempt to reenergize WDW. There is so much they could have done with that budget and with that location, so much potential. Wasted potential is a waste.

All we have to do is compare the public’s reception of FLE to the public’s receptions of WWOHP and Carsland to know that, all things considered, FLE is a complete waste of some incredibly valuable space.

P.S. I promise I’ll let you have the last word on the subject.:)
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I have a question, how does one determine that an AA that was never activated was intended to be an AA to begin with? Maybe it's not broken, maybe it was designed that way. Does anyone know for sure? By for sure, have seen the plans and know what is supposed to be moving and what is not? We all know how, one way or the other, WDW never gets the complete package when it originates in Anaheim.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
I think the whimsical theming would be that this is visiting Pixar Studios where the cartoons are "filmed". So all these characters would be found there, where they work and the rides are the "soundstages" where the movies are filmed. Compare to the "This is Sportscenter" commercials where you have mascots and sports stars hanging out on the ESPN campus for humor sake, even though that is clearly not what exists in reality.

I understand the conceit, but its the same lazy approach that has created the problems within the park. It's the "it's based on a movie so it fits" mentality but with an exterior aesthetic that is nicer than sets and sound stages. It works at Universal Studios Hollywood because it is an actual production facility and that remains the focus, anywhere else I think it is just lazy.
I disagree. Conceptually, DHS/MGM is the "Hollywood that never was, and always will be". Hollywood is a concept and it is often romanticized. I think it can be romanticized to the point that we're visiting "sets" like Carsland, or the Pixar campus like Pixar Place. We could visit The Muppets Studios or Skywalker Ranch. It doesn't have to be recreations of these areas as now a days you'll just find rooms full of computers. Instead you'll find romanticized views of what these various Studios actually are.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
I have a question for some of the insiders (@WDW1974 @RSoxNo1 @Lee). If the debate on WDW's NextGen project continues to go in a direction that the Weatherman and others don't like, would they use an expansion project at WDW as cover to change the topic so to speak?
First and foremost, my level of information is no where near the level of WDW1974 and Lee. Having said that, this would be a logical choice - so in all likelihood they'll do the exact opposite.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
That’s the first time anyone has suggested that I was one of the “fanbois” “snorting the nostalgic pixie dust”. Hopefully you’ve read enough of my posts to recognize this is not the case. In the future, I respectfully suggest an argument comes across stronger when such inflammatory language is not used.

Please recall this discussion started because a third party suggested FLE was a waste of space. You took exception to that as hyperbole. More on that in a moment.

As one of the points defending that person’s opinion, I wrote MK has a dozen attractions better than JotLM. Furthermore, I suggested JotLM was not even the best attraction in Fantasyland. In response, you mentioned Philharmagic (my favorite in Fantasyland) and IASW as possible candidates but, to me, you appeared generally dismissive of the idea that anything other than JotLM was the best attraction in Fantasyland. I, in turn, suggested even attractions such as Peter Pan and Winnie the Pooh were better. Our posts represent opinion and, as such, are a matter of subjective interpretation. You might consider JotLM to be superior. I might consider Peter Pan to be superior. On topics such as this, we both are entitled to opinions without being subjected to name calling.

I agree Peter Pan badly needs a refurbishment. It its defense, it has taken 40 years for Peter Pan to reach its current state. Regardless of condition, its show elements are still as appealing today as they were decades ago when the attraction first opened. Its “pirate ship in flight” presentation is intriguing while its use of subdued lighting contributes to the overall dream-like mood and focuses attention on the ride’s show elements. Taken as a whole, Peter Pan holds up well after 40 years and still impresses many first-time riders. Although Peter Pan desperately needs TLC, in my opinion (and we are just discussing opinions) I’ll gladly take a brand-new Peter Pan over a brand-new JotLM. But JotLM’s queue is better.;)

JotLM has managed to reach a state of disrepair in just a few months. Yes, JotLM is a waste of space. JotLM, opened last year, is based on Disney’s overused 1960s Omnimover technology. Yes, JotLM is a waste of space. JotLM, with its confusing narrative of a well-known and beloved “modern classic” muddles its story, something Disney used to excel at. Yes, JotLM is a waste of space. (Eric’s defeat of Ursula was the attraction’s one chance to inject some excitement into what otherwise is a rather dull ride.) IMHO, JotLM will never become a “classic” attraction like the similarly low-tech HM, PotC, Jungle Cruise, or Peter Pan. In 10 years’ time when JotLM falls into a state of disrepair echoing so many other WDW attractions, I suspect we’ll all be agreeing that JotLM is a waste of space.

No private company spends $450M without expecting significant ROI, certainly not TWDC with its recent obsession with ROI, and TDO spent approximately $450M in an attempt to reenergize WDW. There is so much they could have done with that budget and with that location, so much potential. Wasted potential is a waste.

All we have to do is compare the public’s reception of FLE to the public’s receptions of WWOHP and Carsland to know that, all things considered, FLE is a complete waste of some incredibly valuable space.

P.S. I promise I’ll let you have the last word on the subject.:)
At this point we're only arguing in circles. If you're referring to my making generalities about "fanbois" as name calling, I think you're reading too far into it. If it hit a little too close to home then I guess you're a fanboi and should be offended.

JotLM is in a bad state compared to it's California counterpart. I'm not going to make excuses for that. But let's not pretend that maintenance has never been an issue at Peter Pan's Flight either. It's less of an issue though simply because the show scenes aren't particularly complicated. Because of this discussion I decided to rank the attractions in Fantasyland that I regularly experience. I had PhilharMagic 1, Mermaid 2, and Pan 3. For the entire park I had Pan as the 11th best attraction.

What I object to is the long lines for Peter Pan's Flight. The attraction is very simple and is simply not of the quality that the wait times indicate. I don't mind waiting 5-10 minutes with a Fastpass for Peter Pan, but beyond that I'd just assume skip it.

Back to the original point on Fantasyland being a waste of space - My opposition is what that term means to people. It's similar to when John Hench said of DCA, "I liked it better as a parking lot". Clearly that's hyperbolic. There were certainly good components to the original DCA, and there are certainly good components to New Fantasyland. Instead of concentrating on what's not there (E-ticket) we should evaluate what was added independent of what we wanted. Doing that, I see Mermaid as an imperfect, yet still quality attraction that is technological superior than any other Fantasyland attraction.
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
While I havent read through all 19 pages of this thread yet, I did just return from the world and hardly any of the animatronics were working on Mermaid. The under the sea room was entirely off except for the spinning fish hanging from the ceiling. It was pretty bad. And its poor show where you go through flotsam and jetsom above you, that room has been left undone and all you see is the warehouse and infrastructure and black cement walls. Brand new ride yet animatronics already not working and half baked show scenes, and they wonder why this doesnt have anyone excited.,,,,,and wasnt fairy tale hall suppose to have opened this month?
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
For an idea of what CAN be done with that many AA's when given the proper budget and top-notch maintenance... I give you Sinbad's Storybook Voyage at Tokyo Disney Sea.

Turn up your speakers and take in the AMAZING musical score.


I prefer the original version. It used to be a cool, weird little lovechild of Small World and Pirates of the Caribbean with dangerous adventure with all sorts of things menacing Sinbad and his crew. It was the closest thing to a Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker ride.

But then they made it go Full Small World and took away all the bite it had.
 

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