Al Lutz: Carsland for WDW, FLE not Bringing in Guests

[Darth Sidious]

I'm a little surprised the Iron Man ride got delayed, with much work being done already, but it makes sense if they want to roll out a whole TL makeover at one time. The FLE model of rollout just doesn't work.

I am actually optimistic hearing that. At least someone somewhere got it and is actually learning from a mistake. Then again TDO apparently had to be set in their place and have their hand forced again.

 

[Darth Sidious]

You could easily build a quality version of Cars Land for what is set aside for Avatar. No issues at all there.



That is what I aim to find out. I doubt very much that if they build a very similar version of Cars Land here that you'd get Monsters or much of anything else right now.

I also want a real Pizza Planet... the one they have now is a joke.

 

[juniorthomas]

Al Lutz is reporting that Carsland, sans Luigi's is being fast-tracked for DHS, and that WDI is being given a decent budget. Supposedly the high water table in Florida means Luigi's basement/equipment can't be built. Wonder if another ride will be imagined for this part of Carsland? No Iron Man in Tomorrowland in Disneyland for now (maybe a massive Tomorrowland project including E Ticket in the Future).

http://micechat.com/21154-hello/

Supposedly Burbank thinks that FLE is a less than stellar success because it is being rolled out one piece at a time.

I'm with Lasseter - I think each park deserves its own attractions. Leave Carsland in California. Give DHS something new. No more retreads.

 

[devoy1701]

is it seriously a suprise that things do better if it makes a "grand" debut all at once? Not to mention the fact that the part they DIDN'T get open yet is SMACK DAB in the middle of the whole stinkin thing!

 

[doctornick]

They had a grand opening. They already advertised a new Fantasyland all over the place. When 7 Dwarfs opens over a year later, they can't advertise, "No really. New Fantasyland."

Sure, there are a few people who may be planning specific trips for 2014 based on the completion of Fantasyland. But I can't imagine that is a large number of the population.

Anecdote: A co-worker was leaving for a weekend at WDW. He is a casual tourist and asked me if I knew anything about the new Fantasyland. I told him I did and that I had been there myself. His question was typical of casual tourists. He wanted to know if it was "only in the Magic Kingdom". I guess he thought it might be 5th gate or something. I confirmed it was only an addition to the existing land in MK. When he came back, he said his family had a good time. But only one ride was working in the new Fantasyland.

This is how the majority of tourists think. If they are aware of the new Fantasyland at all, they expect it to be done and are disappointed that it only includes one new ride. A ride that I have yet to hear anyone (even Mermaid fans) praise on any level.

So, no. I don't think it is premature at all.

Was your co-worker going to WDW regardless? Or was he going because of the FLE? If it's the former, then he's not part of the discussion. My theory is that the later group, people who decided to go to WDW being drawn in because of this new fangled addition to Fantasyland, is a virtually non-existent group.

So, my point is that I don't think the FLE is going to have an appreciable effect on increasing visits to WDW (which is what article said has been the case so far). However, I just think it is premature to determine if the FLE will have any effect on bumping up attendence until it is totally complete (Fairtale Hall/7DMT) because -- in theory -- the hoardes just waiting to see this wonderful new place might put off this additional WDW vacation that they otherwise wouldn't take until they can see everything. I still think that such a group of people is non-existent and that the FLE will have no appreciate impact on attendence, but if there are people specifically going to visit for the FLE, I would think they'd wait for another year until it's all done. Conversely, I think that most people are like your coworker and are going to WDW and the FLE is just an incidentabl happening, not a real draw.

 

[lebeau]

Was your co-worker going to WDW regardless? Or was he going because of the FLE? If it's the former, then he's not part of the discussion. My theory is that the later group, people who decided to go to WDW being drawn in because of this new fangled addition to Fantasyland, is a virtually non-existent group.

So, my point is that I don't think the FLE is going to have an appreciable effect on increasing visits to WDW (which is what article said has been the case so far). However, I just think it is premature to determine if the FLE will have any effect on bumping up attendence until it is totally complete (Fairtale Hall/7DMT) because -- in theory -- the hoardes just waiting to see this wonderful new place might put off this additional WDW vacation that they otherwise wouldn't take until they can see everything. I still think that such a group of people is non-existent and that the FLE will have no appreciate impact on attendence, but if there are people specifically going to visit for the FLE, I would think they'd wait for another year until it's all done. Conversely, I think that most people are like your coworker and are going to WDW and the FLE is just an incidentabl happening, not a real draw.

I think in his specific case, it was a little of both. They were going to FL and his wife decided they would visit WDW in part because of the new FL. They are the kind of people that think that Universal opened a Harry Potter theme park. So they bought into Disney's message that there was a historically giant expansion which opened in November.

I see what you're saying. If there are hordes of people waiting to see a completed Fantasyland, they won't show up till 2014. But I think we both agree that it is very unlikely that such a horde exists.

Bottom line: we agree that FLE is unlikely to create an attendance bump now or ever.

 

[dupac]

I'm with Lasseter - I think each park deserves its own attractions. Leave Carsland in California. Give DHS something new. No more retreads.

Yes! I hate the idea of a land based off a single franchise in DHS. Maybe I'm just being negative, but I would much prefer a mix of Pixar rides that had been talked about before. No other IP is as heavily represented as Cars would be if Carsland is built. It would throw off the balance...

 

[juniorthomas]

Yes! I hate the idea of a land based off a single franchise in DHS. Maybe I'm just being negative, but I would much prefer a mix of Pixar rides that had been talked about before. No other IP is as heavily represented as Cars would be if Carsland is built. It would throw off the balance...

Make it a true Pixar Place. Everything gets included.

And that's not just because I found 'Cars' to be boring. It's because I would imagine bringing in other IP would make the addition more meaningful to more park guests.

 

[RSoxNo1]

You make some good points. And yet, I completely disagree.

Yes, Peter Pan looks really old. It definitely needs some TLC. JotLM is more advanced technologically as is Nemo. In spit of those facts, Pan has a charm the more advanced rides lack.

And it's not nostalgia. At least not for everyone. I have two little girls who had never ridden Pan before. They like Pan, but the love Nemo and Ariel. Every member of our party preferred Pan to the other two rides despite its noticeable flaws.

You can't just point to superior AA's and declare JotLM and Nemo to be better rides. The superior tech has been used to a lesser effect. I suspect in the case of Mermaid, they could probably accomplish quite a bit by turning down the lights a little in their "dark" ride. But regardless, there's an intangible thing that makes Pan more enjoyable (to many) in spite of lesser effects.

As someone that has watched the Red Sox for the last 25 years, I cringe at word "intangible" as it's usually associated with Derek Jeter.

You can have the opinion that Peter Pan is your favorite ride, or you like Peter Pan more than Little Mermaid, but the complexity of the show scenes in Pan vs. Mermaid is undeniable. To me, I can't get by how cheap and old Pan looks. It desperately needs to be redone, and if that can be accomplished while still maintaining that charm that you find in it, I will likely enjoy it far more than I do now. For me now, if I had to wait 20 minutes for Pan or 20 minutes for Little Mermaid, I would pick Mermaid every time.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes! I hate the idea of a land based off a single franchise in DHS. Maybe I'm just being negative, but I would much prefer a mix of Pixar rides that had been talked about before. No other IP is as heavily represented as Cars would be if Carsland is built. It would throw off the balance...

But what is the connection that ties together a Pixar Place? Andy and his toys don't live in the same world as Mater and Lightning McQueen nor do they live in a world in which dinosaurs never went extinct. In time the Pixar library will only be larger and the disconnect will only grow.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Peter Pan in DL doesn't have FP and it has the longest lines in FL besides Dumbo. I think the secret is flying cars! People like flying above the sets.

Peter Pan in Disneyland also has substantially less capacity than Florida.

 

[dupac]

But what is the connection that ties together a Pixar Place? Andy and his toys don't live in the same world as Mater and Lightning McQueen nor do they live in a world in which dinosaurs never went extinct. In time the Pixar library will only be larger and the disconnect will only grow.

So its better to have a Pixar Place (with Toy Story only) and a Carsland? Idk. I feel like it would only add more confusion to a park that already is unsure of its identity. I agree that they don't tie together well but it's no different than the Lucas Land people dream of at night.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I visited it a few weeks ago, but I didn't go to specifically see it. I was going to be there anyway so I checked it out. I have to say that I liked the Mermaid ride and even though I noticed that some of the characters were doing no more then swinging back and forth and they were loosely defined as AA's, it didn't bother me much because I cannot envision what they would have all those individual sea critters do mechanically. Does anyone have any thought about that?

I agree that it is way to early to decide whether it's a draw, big or minor, it's not done yet and not really connected, once it is done completely will be a much better time to make that evaluation. For most people coming from out of town, they are not going to make a special trip when only part of it is completed. They will wait until it's the whole package and then plan a trip.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Not sure where you are but in North Florida they marketed it very aggressively. IMHO the bottom line there just isn't enough "meat" in the new area to drive business. I have been to it 3 times now and the detail is very good but nothing to do.

This was my complaint about the Star Tours marketing. Yes, there was plenty in Florida, but it didn't really make it up the coast. Disney World is a vacation destination, advertising just to locals isn't going to work. I see Disney World ads all the time, but they rarely highlight new offerings, they typically highlight families vacationing together on any rides that are outdoors that feature a lot of motion. To the uninformed, this means that Disney World is nothing more than a nice castle and the Teacups.

 

[FigmentJedi]

But what is the connection that ties together a Pixar Place? Andy and his toys don't live in the same world as Mater and Lightning McQueen nor do they live in a world in which dinosaurs never went extinct. In time the Pixar library will only be larger and the disconnect will only grow.

The exterior aesthetic of Pixar Place thus far is essentially "PIxar HQ in Emeryville as a gateway to the worlds of the movies". Have the other end of Pixar Place when this is all done continue that. As for how the Pixar worlds connect, general "crazy internet theory" consensus seems to be they're all the same universe, all thanks to using the movie shout outs to put the pieces of the puzzle together, except for Cars and maybe Incredibles, with Good Dinosaur joining that list when it comes out.

 

[muteki]

This was my complaint about the Star Tours marketing. Yes, there was plenty in Florida, but it didn't really make it up the coast. Disney World is a vacation destination, advertising just to locals isn't going to work. I see Disney World ads all the time, but they rarely highlight new offerings, they typically highlight families vacationing together on any rides that are outdoors that feature a lot of motion. To the uninformed, this means that Disney World is nothing more than a nice castle and the Teacups.

And half the time the footage is from DL

 

[RSoxNo1]

Regarding the FLE not increasing attendence, I'm in the camp that believes it's premature to make any assessments until the 7DMT is done. Now, mind you, I don't think the FLE is going to have much of an impact, if any, in driving attendence. But anyone who considers the FLE to be something that specifically is bringing them to WDW is goign to wait until the 7DMT (and Fairytale Hall) is completed. If you are making it a point to visit something new, wouldn't you wait until it is finished?

One of the things Lutz acknowledged in the article though is that in hindsight Disney feels it should have all been opened at once. We had several people on this site suggest the same thing and if I recall I was of the opinion that they should just open stuff piecemeal. Disney seems to think that the reason why Carsland was successful and Fantasyland wasn't as successful is because of how they opened it. While there is certainly some truth to that, I suspect that the larger reason is that Carsland had the large anchor that Fantasyland didn't.

 

[asianway]

I think in his specific case, it was a little of both. They were going to FL and his wife decided they would visit WDW in part because of the new FL. They are the kind of people that think that Universal opened a Harry Potter theme park. So they bought into Disney's message that there was a historically giant expansion which opened in November.

I see what you're saying. If there are hordes of people waiting to see a completed Fantasyland, they won't show up till 2014. But I think we both agree that it is very unlikely that such a horde exists.

Bottom line: we agree that FLE is unlikely to create an attendance bump now or ever.

Spirit did say that NFE was ready to go for a soft open 10/1, but they held it back knowing all the foamers in town for the #EPCOT30 non-event would make a second trip for the construction wall maze.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The exterior aesthetic of Pixar Place thus far is essentially "PIxar HQ in Emeryville as a gateway to the worlds of the movies". Have the other end of Pixar Place when this is all done continue that. As for how the Pixar worlds connect, general "crazy internet theory" consensus seems to be they're all the same universe, all thanks to using the movie shout outs to put the pieces of the puzzle together, except for Cars and maybe Incredibles, with Good Dinosaur joining that list when it comes out.

Aren't we expected to have a little imagination ourselves. Must we be told everything? If it's Pixar, it's pixar, it doesn't need a yellow brick road directing us to it. Does it?

 

[doctornick]

But what is the connection that ties together a Pixar Place? Andy and his toys don't live in the same world as Mater and Lightning McQueen nor do they live in a world in which dinosaurs never went extinct. In time the Pixar library will only be larger and the disconnect will only grow.

I think the whimsical theming would be that this is visiting Pixar Studios where the cartoons are "filmed". So all these characters would be found there, where they work and the rides are the "soundstages" where the movies are filmed. Compare to the "This is Sportscenter" commercials where you have mascots and sports stars hanging out on the ESPN campus for humor sake, even though that is clearly not what exists in reality.