-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
"Adios" El Rio del Tiempo!
- Thread starter mousermerf
- Start date
- Status
AEfx
Well-Known Member
d"
And you'd be right. "Future World" as a concept doesn't really exist any more.
The issue is the same thing that has plagued Tomorrowland at Disneyland, and to a lesser extent MK. In the 50's when they were designing that stuff, they thought in 2000 we'd all be in flying cars like the Jetsons. That didn't happen. Then again, if you had told people in the 1950's about nano-technology they would have put you in a loony bin.
The point is, you are doomed when you create a permanent attraction around the future because the future is always changing. You either end up missing the boat (nano-tech) or you end up being too optimistic and miss realism.
So yes, I agree that the concept and even name of future world is not what it was. But unless they demolished the attractions and rebuilt them every few years, there really wasn't a practical way around it.
Now I feel as if they are going for timeless over "future". Take a look at The Seas, for example. Was the previous incarnation more fact-filled? Yes, but for instance, that was only the largest aquarium for a few years. The world changed. It wasn't so impressive anymore when compared to the "real world". So now, instead of trying to just awe you and give you random facts about the changing world, they make it an "undersea adventure" with an accessable character. It may not fill the original concept of Epcot, but it still exposes those relevant oceanographic concepts and can inspire in a different way.
Honestly, the best thing about Project Gemni would have been the renaming of Future World. I agree, it's just doesn't capture the whole of what Epcot is evolving into.
AEfx
And you'd be right. "Future World" as a concept doesn't really exist any more.
The issue is the same thing that has plagued Tomorrowland at Disneyland, and to a lesser extent MK. In the 50's when they were designing that stuff, they thought in 2000 we'd all be in flying cars like the Jetsons. That didn't happen. Then again, if you had told people in the 1950's about nano-technology they would have put you in a loony bin.
The point is, you are doomed when you create a permanent attraction around the future because the future is always changing. You either end up missing the boat (nano-tech) or you end up being too optimistic and miss realism.
So yes, I agree that the concept and even name of future world is not what it was. But unless they demolished the attractions and rebuilt them every few years, there really wasn't a practical way around it.
Now I feel as if they are going for timeless over "future". Take a look at The Seas, for example. Was the previous incarnation more fact-filled? Yes, but for instance, that was only the largest aquarium for a few years. The world changed. It wasn't so impressive anymore when compared to the "real world". So now, instead of trying to just awe you and give you random facts about the changing world, they make it an "undersea adventure" with an accessable character. It may not fill the original concept of Epcot, but it still exposes those relevant oceanographic concepts and can inspire in a different way.
Honestly, the best thing about Project Gemni would have been the renaming of Future World. I agree, it's just doesn't capture the whole of what Epcot is evolving into.
AEfx
planet7
New Member
What is "timeless" about Test Track? Mission Space? Ellen? Innoventions? HISTA? Journey Into Your Lack of Imagination Pimping Figment? A CM-less Land Boat ride? Soarin', I might give you that one on the imagery, but what really makes that is the "wow" factor--and you've clearly made a point that the wow factor has a limited lifespan. So, again, what is "timeless" about Future World as we know it today--let alone "futuristic"? And if we're not going for futuristic, first of all, the name should go. And then we're still left with a random mix-mash of rides with no relation to one another, no matter what you call it. A park with no cohesion, no story, no purpose, is not a theme park. It's called "Six Flags".
Back to the original thread... I think that the original El Rio de Tiempo is "timeless", and I really don't see that it needs updating. I'm afraid that they're just going to dumb it down, as they've done with so many other things.
It's amazing to me that the same company that gave us LOST, doesn't believe that the public has an attention span or intelligence beyond that of a gnat. And to think, LOST works without a single Disney (or Pixar!) animated character in it.
G7
AEfx
Well-Known Member
It did very, very well for at least a decade in its "cold and uninviting" state. It's never going to be all things to all people. We're back to homogenization and consistent mediocrity again.
You hit the nail on the head. It's never going to be all things to all people. But you seem to expect to cater to you. Those two things don't follow.
That's because...drumroll...YOU ARE A DISNEY FAN! I'm still "wowed" by a lot of things because I love the magic of how it's all done, etc. Most people, not so much. I haven't debated how YOU perceive things, just that I don't think that as a Disney fan you are looking at what a non-addict would see.
I didn't say it "never worked", I said it DID work for a certain amount of time.
I'm not saying you didn't enjoy Epcot. What I am saying is that this "new bold concept" of edu-tainment was more "feeling" and talk than action. I know the feeling you are talking about, but I'm able to seperate that feeling from how those attractions appeared as time moved on.
The nostalgia comes from being part of that new, exciting experience and not realizing that outside of that time and place, the elements would not have worked as well.
I touched on that in my previous reply to Martin. The new attractions may not fit some cohesive mold you feel was set 25 years ago, but they are building them to be a bit more timeless. They aren't positioned to envision the future, which was the big downfall of "Future World". Test Track, Mission : Space, Soarin', Nemo, even Universe of Energy - they eliminated the elements that kept them locked into the time they were built. Soarin' will be just as relevant in ten years as it is today; it's a hang-gliding ride made to show you some of the beautiful scenery there is in CA, and the film can (and supposedly is) being updated.
They aren't basing them on cold, hard facts as much, and instead focusing on the inspiration and experience. Again, it doesn't make for a cohesive park, but if you look at the rides Epcot has added in the last decade, they either present an experience not tied to a specific time, or are otherwise easy to upgrade as the future dictates. Juxtapose that with Horizons, and the fact that every few years they really would have had to demolish half the show scenes and rebuild them to "keep up".
Uh, forgive me for thinking you were addicted to the Disney crack...how dare I think that of someone who visits this forum.
So the Imagineers who are building the attractions in Epcot are doing crappy jobs, the average guests doesn't know what they want, I don't know what I'm talking about, and the record guest satisfaction at Epcot's new attractions is meaningless. Man, I guess you are the only one left who knows what's "best" for Epcot, right? At least the Epcot you wish to visit...
The average guest knows they want to have fun. Epcot is focusing more on fun. It's not a hard equation.
And if you don't think they are delivering it, you are perfectly justified in talking with your wallet. But you won't. Just like those people that complain about Micro$oft but refuse to learn Linux...I just wonder where the point is when you stop being disgruntled and stop supporting what bothers you so much.
Because of the box they built themselves into with the original concept, the only way to avoid what you are describing would be if they just demolished the entire park and started over every few years. If you do software development you must be keenly aware of this concept : once the design is laid down and built, it's very hard to make changes to any part without affecting the entire structure. If they spent all their time worrying about whatever stories esoterically tied pavilion to pavilion Epcot would have rotted.
Mistakes have been made. That's no question. But they worked with what they had. It all goes back to the fact that many of the attractions would have been brilliant at a world's fair for a couple of years, but simply were not strong enough at attractions to be used in a theme park for decades, either because of thematic or practical reasons, and often times, both.
Yes, the original concept of future world was not sustainable, and the title doesn't fit much. I'm all for changing it to Discoveryland as Gemini would have done. To me, that abstract feeling of cohesion to a quarter century old concept is nice and all, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it today.
Again, I may not like Mission : Space, but I know why it's there.
AEfx
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but when you start to compare Epcot to Six Flags, I have to call you on being a drama queen.
As I've explained more fully above, the "timeless" means, in hard, concrete terms, the attraction isn't spouting current scientific fact, or based in predictions of the future. Those IMMEDIATELY date an attraction.
I'm not using timeless to quantify quality, but content. The new attractions are designed to be relevant past the current prediction of the future. For example, Test Track is going to remain as relevant as it was the day it opened until we get flying cars and wheeled vehicles are obsolete. You can't say the same for a scene in Horizons with big 70's looking computers.
With the exception of the Disneyland shots, Soarin' could have been filmed 20 years ago, or it may look new (even with the same film) two decades from now. And that attraction also has the bulit in factor of being able to change the film, making updates much easier than, say, destroying a whole show set in a dark ride and rebuilding it from scratch.
I'm not saying the attractions have necessarily gotten to be of higher quality (you have no idea of the love I have for AA filled dark rides...), but they certainly aren't carbon dated like many of the presentations that were there in 1982.
AEfx
AEfx
Well-Known Member
If that's the case, then I guess we must think VERY differently, and since just about every post in this thread on that topic has agreed that the attraction is dated and needs to be refreshed, it seems you are in a very small minority in that opinion.
You really don't giggle at those people in funny circa 1980 bathing suits and haircuts in those falling-apart video segments?
AEfx
cmatt
Active Member
now now kiddies...... 
nostalgia aside - el tiempo is dated, pure and simple. As a corporation sole bent on turning over profit (ala every other company in the world) they NEED to constantly (however sometimes in disney's case inconsistantly) update, refresh and improve areas which are stale,tired and somewhat a let down.
Although a much smaller park, animal kingdom is a fine example of the park getting it 'right' (however there are slight les, ala the boat ride that closed down) But its an astounding mixture of excellent rides and also other attractions such as the animals and charecter meets.
Epcot circa 2006 is most certainly not the epcot of the 70's/80's, and it needs to have a bit of clean up and refurbishment. I personally like what they have done with the not so future world, and i highly recommend the evening segway tour! *i got segway pin! - my first EVER!*
nostalgia aside - el tiempo is dated, pure and simple. As a corporation sole bent on turning over profit (ala every other company in the world) they NEED to constantly (however sometimes in disney's case inconsistantly) update, refresh and improve areas which are stale,tired and somewhat a let down.
Although a much smaller park, animal kingdom is a fine example of the park getting it 'right' (however there are slight les, ala the boat ride that closed down
) But its an astounding mixture of excellent rides and also other attractions such as the animals and charecter meets. Epcot circa 2006 is most certainly not the epcot of the 70's/80's, and it needs to have a bit of clean up and refurbishment. I personally like what they have done with the not so future world, and i highly recommend the evening segway tour! *i got segway pin! - my first EVER!*
AEfx
Well-Known Member
In simple terms, I think that's something we can all agree on.
Well, almost everyone. :lookaroun
AEfx
cmatt
Active Member
such as a way of the forums! (im a mod on a rock festival on in the uk, and trust me - the spats on here are NOTHING in comparison!
)
iheartdisney91
Well-Known Member
omg you scared me i thought you were gunna say it was gunna close! :sohappy:
DisneyMusician2
Well-Known Member
Not only is it dated, it tells almost nothing about the real history of the country. That is what the update could really add, instead of the shopkeepers trying to stereotypically sell you stuff.
PhilharMagician
Well-Known Member
I thought this thread was about El Rio de Tiempo.:hammer:
slappy magoo
Well-Known Member
(i'm typing on a motorola q, pls forgive typos)
I've always enjoyed Disney educational films (esp. when shown during school- admit it it was always a good day when there was a Disney film Assembly). I eveb burned a dvd of my tape of Donald in Mathmagicland. I see nothing wrong with using characters to assist the learning aspect of the attractions, tho I appreciate any attempt to create new characters specifically for the pavilions.
I've always enjoyed Disney educational films (esp. when shown during school- admit it it was always a good day when there was a Disney film Assembly). I eveb burned a dvd of my tape of Donald in Mathmagicland. I see nothing wrong with using characters to assist the learning aspect of the attractions, tho I appreciate any attempt to create new characters specifically for the pavilions.
JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
All I ask is that they not leave out Dusty Bottoms.
JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
Oh, will Lee/Corrus, any word on the addition of the fabled "Cockfight" scene?
tink81
New Member
Now there's something to look forward to!
Victor
Active Member
This post got me to thinking about those old 'Adventures in Epcot' happy meal toys that came out for Epcot '94...was this a sign of things to come?
http://www.animatedcollectibles.com/media/AdventuresInEpcotDonald.jpg
http://www.animatedcollectibles.com/media/AdventuresInEpcotDonald.jpg
SirNim
Well-Known Member
*spit take*
- Status